gemologist vs nyc diamond district

[njseeker]

This is my first time posting. I hope you guys can help me out. Two questions.

1. I''m looking to buy a 1.7 carat round. I am thinking about spending about 18k or so. What kind of stats should I be looking at? F, VS2, sym/polish excellent?

2. I met a jeweler in NYC diamond district that I like based on my initial conversations with him. I also know a gemologist who has a diamond cutter (a connection through my future fiancee). I trust this gemologist but I do not know anything professionally about this gemologist or the cutter. If i go through the gemologist he will give me the best price he absolutely can but I will taint some of the suprise with my proposal. Does anyone know what kind of price differential i''m looking at between the two? And any advice in general?


Thanks very much!

 

[njseeker]

Can anyone help?

 

[~*Alexis*~]

welll....


I would say that you should do your research. You want a stone with exellent cut and polish and symm. Why would using the cutter lower your surprise?
Although I would be weary of using a gemologist who has just turned cutter, because lack of cutting experience.

I would search online vendors like GOG, Whiteflash and some of the others and see what you can come up with. You will probably find that for your budget you can get a great deal.

Now is your 18k including your setting or just the stone?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/7/2009 4:57:18 PM
Author:njseeker
This is my first time posting. I hope you guys can help me out. Two questions.

1. I'm looking to buy a 1.7 carat round. I am thinking about spending about 18k or so. What kind of stats should I be looking at? F, VS2, sym/polish excellent?

2. I met a jeweler in NYC diamond district that I like based on my initial conversations with him. I also know a gemologist who has a diamond cutter (a connection through my future fiancee). I trust this gemologist but I do not know anything professionally about this gemologist or the cutter. If i go through the gemologist he will give me the best price he absolutely can but I will taint some of the suprise with my proposal. Does anyone know what kind of price differential i'm looking at between the two? And any advice in general?


Thanks very much!

Welcome!



Ok if you want a top cut diamond, then look at AGS0 cut grade and GIA Excellent. It is cut which gives a diamond its beauty so it is a very important factor. AGS0 are considered to be a safe choice for cut quality although I personally believe it is best to evaluate each diamond carefully and not to assume anything, with GIA Excellent, this cut grade can allow less desirable cut combos to receive the Excellent grade so evaluate these particularly carefully. You can use the Holloway Cut Advisor under tools top right to help you eliminate lesser performers. Also here are some numbers you can use as a guide to help you find a well cut round diamond.

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

Note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

And from expert John Pollard.

"Here's a "Cliff's Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35)."

As to using this gemologist/ cutter it is hard for us to advise about an unknown source, especially if you know nothing about him professionally...Personally I think it would be preferable to use a reputable jeweller or online vendor from the info you gave.

 

[njseeker]

Great! Thanks for the responses. This whole process is a bit unnerving. I''ve never spent this much money before!

Well, if I went through the gemologist who has a cutter I would have to make some subtle inquiries with the in-laws which I don''t want to do. I wasn''t sure if there was a risk in using an unknown cutter and from your responses it looks like there is... I am ok not using that source as there is some risk. If I could somehow get the name of the cutter would it be extremely difficult to find out what kind of reputation that cutter has?

Well my girlfriend wants a very simple setting... plain platinum setting no additional diamonds. so i was hopeing that the setting wouldn''t be more than 1,000 to 2,000. If that''s the case I think I can spend 18k on the stone itself. I really would like to get an excellent quality stone and from my intial research I think i''m in the neighborhood. I don''t want perfect but I want it to be very high quality.

After I actually go and select a diamond.... I plan on posting all of the stats here so I can get some feedback.

 

[neatfreak]

Just something to add that more often than not, when someone uses a "friend of a friend" they end up getting screwed. Just something to keep in mind.

 

[njseeker]

That''s exactly what i''m worried about.

Do I really need to see the diamond? If I get all of the dimensions from the jeweler... I mean... I can''t tell the difference anyway. I''ll get it appraised and everything and I will eventually have to look at it before I buy it but is it really neccessary to see the diamond if I get all of its stats?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/9/2009 10:02:21 AM
Author: njseeker
That''s exactly what i''m worried about.

Do I really need to see the diamond? If I get all of the dimensions from the jeweler... I mean... I can''t tell the difference anyway. I''ll get it appraised and everything and I will eventually have to look at it before I buy it but is it really neccessary to see the diamond if I get all of its stats?

look for a GIA or AGS graded stone then post the specs here.

 

[oldmancoyote]

Date: 1/9/2009 10:02:21 AM
Author: njseeker
That''s exactly what i''m worried about.

Do I really need to see the diamond? If I get all of the dimensions from the jeweler... I mean... I can''t tell the difference anyway. I''ll get it appraised and everything and I will eventually have to look at it before I buy it but is it really neccessary to see the diamond if I get all of its stats?

To first highlighted point - you''d be surprised what you can and cannot see. Many people start thinking they can see inclusions below VS1 (and thus want a VVS stone), colour above H (and thus want an E stone) and size differences of 0.1 mm (and thus agonize about 0.97 vs. 1.03 carat weight). On the other hand, most people start thinking that because cut is difficult to grasp it won''t matter too much, while instead it makes all the difference of the world, including on perceived colour, clarity and size.

To the second: YES. In fact, see several; see as many as you can. Seeing "the stats" is like someone telling you they have a four-door red car for sale. Do you want to buy it based on that? Seeing more advanced analysis (such as Sarin/Helium scans, or IS/ASET images and good photographs/videos of the stones) is significantly more useful, but a) it needs some amount of interpretation skills and experience, and b) is still not a substitute for seeing the stone "in the flash" as it were.

 

[njseeker]

alright, so i''m serious about buying a rock but I haven''t seen any yet. When I go to the jeweler what is reasonable for me to ask? Should I prepare him and tell him I want all of the specs and dimensions and all of that stuff in advance? Do diamonds normally come with a spec sheet or something? Do people generally get something to take home with them when they go diamond shopping?

Do I ask him for Sarin/Helium scans or IS/ASET images or photos of the diamond to take home with me?

If I ask for all of this stuff do I become that pain in butt the customer or is this normal?

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:13:11 AM
Author: njseeker
alright, so i''m serious about buying a rock but I haven''t seen any yet. When I go to the jeweler what is reasonable for me to ask? Should I prepare him and tell him I want all of the specs and dimensions and all of that stuff in advance? Do diamonds normally come with a spec sheet or something? Do people generally get something to take home with them when they go diamond shopping?


Do I ask him for Sarin/Helium scans or IS/ASET images or photos of the diamond to take home with me?


If I ask for all of this stuff do I become that pain in butt the customer or is this normal?

Who cares if he thinks you are a pain, you are being a prudent buyer. And a vendor that has nothing to hide should be happy to provide you all the specs and if he has the technology an IS/ASET.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/9/2009 11:44:31 AM
Author: neatfreak

Date: 1/9/2009 11:13:11 AM
Author: njseeker
alright, so i''m serious about buying a rock but I haven''t seen any yet. When I go to the jeweler what is reasonable for me to ask? Should I prepare him and tell him I want all of the specs and dimensions and all of that stuff in advance? Do diamonds normally come with a spec sheet or something? Do people generally get something to take home with them when they go diamond shopping?


Do I ask him for Sarin/Helium scans or IS/ASET images or photos of the diamond to take home with me?


If I ask for all of this stuff do I become that pain in butt the customer or is this normal?

Who cares if he thinks you are a pain, you are being a prudent buyer. And a vendor that has nothing to hide should be happy to provide you all the specs and if he has the technology an IS/ASET.

A hearty ditto to that!

 

[denverappraiser]

I agree, being perceived as a pain is fine but, depending on what you require in terms of documentation, they may or may not be able to do it without some advance notice and some stores (most stores actually) aren’t prepared to do what you describe at all. Be clear when you set your appointment about what you are hoping to get in terms of documentation for what you are considering and if they aren’t going to be able to provide it they should tell you at the time. It’ll save you wasting both your time and theirs.

Even if they have the tools and the skills, they may not be interested in making you copies of things to take home. Again, ask in advance if this is going to be important to you.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[njseeker]

Thanks all of you! This is some awesome advice. I know next to nothing about diamonds. I don''t think i will ask for scans or images or photos or anything like that b/c I really wouldn''t know how to look at them.. I will get some stats though which I will share with everyone to get some feedback.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Are you anywhere near Long Island? I''d strongly recommend making an appointment at Good Old Gold. They specialize in top cut quality stones and will give you an education on diamonds while you''re there. They have quite a bit of information on their site, too. But they are a real jewelry store, if that would make you more comfortable to visit there.

www.goodoldgold.com

Incidentally, an F VS2 at 1.7 is going to be over $20,000 in an excellent/ideal cut stone. I''d suggest looking at G VS2.

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 1/9/2009 5:18:19 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
Are you anywhere near Long Island? I''d strongly recommend making an appointment at Good Old Gold. They specialize in top cut quality stones and will give you an education on diamonds while you''re there. They have quite a bit of information on their site, too. But they are a real jewelry store, if that would make you more comfortable to visit there.

www.goodoldgold.com

Incidentally, an F VS2 at 1.7 is going to be over $20,000 in an excellent/ideal cut stone. I''d suggest looking at G VS2.

Ditto, it''s worth the trip for sure. Good luck!!

 

[ociopia]

I believe you can''t go wrong with Good Old Gold or James Allen or Whiteflash or the other Pricescope internet jewelers. Each of them has fabulous return policies.

Call Jonathan at GOG and tell him what you want. He''ll take all of the glitzy hi-tech photos of the stone, as well as a video of it compared with others, but he''ll also send it to you and if you don''t like it, you can send it back and he''ll send you another. And of course if you can actually visit and see in person, get to Long Island.

There is nothing like seeing first-hand. I think most of the "regular" jewelry stores are inflated in price and don''t specialize in extraordinary diamonds. You have stated you are a novice. Most brick and mortar stores have lighting that makes almost any diamond seem remarkable.

At GOG, the first thing they did when I bought my ring was show it to me in a number of lightings, one of which showed my M color really strongly. At another store, I might not have even understood just how yellow M can be, as my M faces up white in almost all light.

Of course you''ll have the AGSO and GIA rating others have recommended so you''ll know it is a great stone technically. But technically is not the same as visually. Each diamond has its own life and character.

And don''t hesitate to go with a G or H in color and a VS2, if it is a stone of exceptional cut and life, imo.

Sherry

 

[Imdanny]

Please look at this (Whiteflash) page:

http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=ST6PW&CategID=13

You can get a simple platinum setting for $600.

Whiteflash's policy is not to sell the setting without a diamond.

If I have this right, you want a RB cut. (Personally Whiteflash is where I would buy this type of diamond (i.e. RB cut), and this policy wouldn't bother me in the slightest).

Regarding clarity and color, I think others have given you great advice.