Fred Cuellar - Bling or sting?

[chris-uk04]

I am trying to find out the real skinny on Fred Cuellar of Diamond Cutters International. Previous posts have mainly trashed him, and I''ve tried to look at the pros and cons. Is he a bad guy or is there just competition making these posts?
Among other things, he talks about how diamonds will be cut poorly to salvage weight and how jewelers try to pass off a lower standard for princess shapes or claim that there is no real standard. I''ve seen his 65/65 (table and depth for princess) backed up elsewhere, while internet vendors continue to push poorly cut princess diamonds with table and depth of near or over 80%.
Is there some knowledgable person, without any affiliations to competiting sites that can give an honest opinion of Cuellar? I read the story about his "fraud" and I''m not 100% biting. I''m cautious and what to hear other opinions, but I also am not really wanting to hear the competitions slander.
Two other items:
1. Cuellar says to shy away from Antwerp & Amsterdam as there are too big of a possiblity of being scammed by switching, treatments, and poor customer service availablity? 2. Cuellar also says to shy away from brand name diamonds (like the Leo) as they are inflated due to limited distribution, but they are no better than comparable diamonds of similar quality. Your opinion?

Cheers,
Chris

Here''s his lists of articles:
http://www.diamondcuttersintl.com/diamond_education/articles/index.html
http://diamondcuttersintl.com/diamond_education/ask/

 

[aljdewey]

You've evidently done the reading yourself......so what do you think?

 

[diane5006]

Hi I am just a plain person...not a vendor..

I may not have the answers you need...

I think you can check the Better Business Bureau...for information regarding him...

What I gather from reading posts here and elsewhere...is that some of his information is helpful...but that he does use some more unusual business practices...such as telling people who are calling for info that their diamond is warped...and that they paid too much for it...oh but wait he has just the stone for them...also the bonded thing never made much sense to me...since you can get the same services without the price hike

As far as the 65/65 thing...well...not my area of knowledge...but but performance is based on other things as well as table/depth...the tutorial on here can give you more info

One thing that can help you understand this is to look at vendors sites that will show you optical evidence of performance...such as ideal scope, brilliance scope, Isee2 results so you can see for yourself...

My thoughts re shopping is to find a vendor either on-line or B&M that has a good return/upgrade/thing might not work out policy, will help you with optical assessment of stone, who will allow you to send the stone to and independant appraiser for evaluation...and that you feel comfortable with

Personally I think this guy feeds off the lack of consumer knowledge...but he isn't the only one

So hope this was a bit helpful...

Best of Luck in your search

 

[Mara]

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On 12/9/2003 12:19:51 PM chris00nj wrote:











I am trying to find out the real skinny on Fred Cuellar of Diamond Cutters International. Previous posts have mainly trashed him, and I've tried to look at the pros and cons. Is he a bad guy or is there just competition making these posts?

Did you notice his criminal record? Google him. End of story. He may be reformed but would you want to buy a diamond from someone like that? There's no competition at all--we're customers, so there is no benefit in us saying he's not a good gamble. Read between the lines.

Among other things, he talks about how diamonds will be cut poorly to salvage weight and how jewelers try to pass off a lower standard for princess shapes or claim that there is no real standard. I've seen his 65/65 (table and depth for princess) backed up elsewhere, while internet vendors continue to push poorly cut princess diamonds with table and depth of near or over 80%.

Not all internet vendors 'push' poorly cut stones. Maybe you are just shopping with the wrong vendors? There is actually no real standard for a princess cut stone just like there aren't real official standards for H&A. His 65/65 princess may be backed elsewhere, but it's just a brand like any other brand name. Just be sure that if you shop with him, you know the drill. He's a slick sales guy--and he sells some decent stones from what I have heard, but I am not into the used car sales talk.

Is there some knowledgable person, without any affiliations to competiting sites that can give an honest opinion of Cuellar? I read the story about his 'fraud' and I'm not 100% biting. I'm cautious and what to hear other opinions, but I also am not really wanting to hear the competitions slander.

None of us here have any affiliations to competing sites...many of us are informed customers. Honest opinion of Cuellar? Read the previous posts again. If you have 20 bad posts and 1 good one, why bother taking the chance? That would be like shopping with a company who had 20 unhappy customers and 1 good one. Don't you value your $$?

Two other items:
1. Cuellar says to shy away from Antwerp & Amsterdam as there are too big of a possiblity of being scammed by switching, treatments, and poor customer service availablity? 2. Cuellar also says to shy away from brand name diamonds (like the Leo) as they are inflated due to limited distribution, but they are no better than comparable diamonds of similar quality. Your opinion?

Don't know about shying away from A & A but you should definitely shop with a well-known vendor, not some fly-by-night type place. Look for testimonials from happy customers.

Secondly, do shy away from branded *extra facet* diamonds as they are inflated and the whole 'extra sparkle' or better look thing is highly speculative. But if you shy away from a 'branded' stone according to Fred, then you'd probably want to shy away from FC's 65/65 stone too right? I don't think it makes sense to shy from BRANDED stones, if the brand is worth the $$ and it's a cut you can't get elsewhere, thats your priority. But be sure you know what you are buying--don't just pay more for the brand.

When we were looking, I got FC's book from his site for free. It made alot of good points. But alot of confusing ones too. Bonded diamonds? Whatever! In the end, the book and Fred have their own opinions just like everyone else, take it with a grain of salt, just like you should take ANY sales pitch with a grain of salt.

I just don't understand how he got to be the trusted diamond advisor on theknot.com and other popular sites and books...criminal record, sketchy salesy look? Sure that's what I want to buy from. Being told that all other stones are WARPED but his are the best? Please. It just collaborates my thought that the general public are not the brightest bulbs.

Anyway if you are looking for well-cut princesses...SuperbCert.com has some good ones I have heard, also DBOF has some sort of new princess cut that Jenibear just bought, she loves it. Very well cut princess cut stones are hard to find--nothing about that search is going to be super easy. Keep reading and keep being suspicious. Shop with Fred if you want but as a customer, I can guarantee you I would never drop thousands of dollars with a man like that...why bother when there are so many other good vendors out there? It's like gambling.

Good luck!

 

[magna2]

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On 12/9/2003 12:19:51 PM chris00nj wrote:



Is there some knowledgable person, without any affiliations to competiting sites that can give an honest opinion of Cuellar?

If you had actually read the posts related to Fred Cueller, you would have realized that majority of the posts are not from his competitors but mainly from the average consumers who at one point bought into the Fred Cueller scare tactics or knowledgeable enough to recognize BS when stepping into it. You asked for an honest opinion of Fred Cueller - so here goes, Fred is a smooth fast talking salesman that provides enough information to lend credence to what he is pitching. What he is preaching is that of fear - if you don't buy from him you are going to be taken to the cleaners by the unscrupulous jewelers out there. By the way, only he will work with you to find the diamond without the flaws that he mentions in his educational material because he has identified some mind-numbing categories of flaws. Example - warped diamond.

I read the story about his 'fraud' and I'm not 100% biting.

No one ever suggested that you believe his fraud case. It is a matter of public record and whether you believe it or not is ultimately up to you. Some believe O.J. is innocent and some will swear that he is guilty. Where the truth lies nobody knows except the parties involved. If you believe he is credible then it is a moot point to discuss his guilt or innocence - I let you be the judge of his character. But do not throw all caution out the window.

I'm cautious and what to hear other opinions, but I also am not really wanting to hear the competitions slander.

First, I am no competitor of FC nor am I in the diamond business - jsut a person who is interested in diamonds and trying to learn as much about it as possible as well as sharing what I've picked up along the way. Second, slander is malicious statements/utterances intended to injure the reputation or well being of a person. Slander can not occur when statements are truthful. FC has made himself into a public figure; statements attributed to him and questioned by others can not be viewed as libelous nor slanderous. If you want to utilize Fred Cueller's Diamond Cutter's International for your diamond purchase, by all means do so - no one rally cares. It just that we get a good chuckle from Fred's latest tactics.

Two other items:
1. Cuellar says to shy away from Antwerp & Amsterdam as there are too big of a possiblity of being scammed by switching, treatments, and poor customer service availablity?

The statement, in itself, is libelous and slanderous. So on one hand you don't want to hear Fred's competitors slandering him but you buy into his slander. Funny. Since I am not in the trade, I would not know whether that is true or not and do not care to comment on such a statement. May be Fred has had that experience to so claim but I do not. But I would take his statement lightly. It is always wise to buy contigent upon having a diamond independently evaluated. If so, there would not be any fear of his claims happening.

2. Cuellar also says to shy away from brand name diamonds (like the Leo) as they are inflated due to limited distribution, but they are no better than comparable diamonds of similar quality.

Why do anyone buy anything that is brand named? In the case of automobiles, for its' rarity and/or value. Diamonds are similar - with brand names, you get an expected quality/prestige. Also note, Leo diamonds are extra faceted diamonds, so there are no comparable diamonds unless you compare it to another Leo. You are paying for the uniquess of the brand. If a person buys a 8* or HoF diamond, where is he going to find you another comparable diamond of similar quality - and I do not mean just color and clarity.


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Please educate yourself as much as possible so that you'll know what you want. Everything else becomes second nature as you become a knowledgeable consumer and thus be able to see through the guise of Fred Cueller and his likes.

 

[strmrdr]

note: I havent looked that deeply into him and im not going too life is too short.
What Iv heard is enough to keep me far far away from him.
Is it all true? I dont know nor care but there are people out there to buy from that dont have all the baggage attached to them that he does.
Life is too short to deal with any problems that one does not have too.
Why buy something from someone that there might be a nagging voice in your mind saying did I get taken?
Life is too short to deal with questionable folks.
If more people took that attitude there would be a lot less crooks in the world today.

I trust several vendors here on ps but that does not mean anything I buy from them isnt going to an independant appraiser before I buy it.
Then it will get a once over by someone local that is willing to look it over with me right there once I have it in hand.
If I bought anything over a few hundred dollars at a local b&m it would get the same treatment.

trust but verify is my bottom line.

 

[Manks]

Here's the story:

http://houston.bizjournals.com/houston/stories/1998/06/08/story3.html?page=1

 

[chris-uk04]

I appreciate the help. I will

I do admit the warped thing comes up often in FC's posts and tell people that are being overcharged.. this is mixed with enough real advice to give good credibility. He's supposedly sending me a book. I will read it but keep and open mind. He may not be a complete thief but not the buddy-buddy he

Besides supercert, any good places to buy an ideally cut princess stone? How have people's experiences with Blue Nile been? Any opinion on the Sirrus ideal?

Cheers,
Chris

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

1. Warping occurs because in USA the girdle thickness is measured at the thinnest point, so when you add say a 15% crown, 2% gridle and 43% you get 60% - but the diamond would be 61.7% deep.
The correct answer is that all diamonds in USA are warped, and none in Europe are because HRD measure the girdle thickness at the thickest point which is usually 1.7% thicker.

He knows that he is preying on missinformation and in my mind that makes him a charlitan.

2. There is and never can be an ideal-cut princess cut. The closet you can get is a regent cut.

 

[chris-uk04]

I thought a regent cut is a tapered square cut, not a level of quality of a princess cut. Although no official "ideal", isn't there different standards to which a princess can be evaluated... perhaps similar to what is shown here?

Princess cut dimensions

Cheers,
Chris

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/10/2003 3:43:14 AM chris00nj wrote:





Besides supercert, any good places to buy an ideally cut princess stone? How have people's experiences with Blue Nile been? Any opinion on the Sirrus ideal?
---------------

Good Old Gold is fantastic with princes stones. Very, VERY knowledgable and typically a good inventory of them. I'd peruse his site for current stock.....if you don't see what you're looking for, ask him.....I think he's getting some new stuff in for the holidays.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/10/2003 6:34:02 AM chris00nj wrote:





I thought a regent cut is a tapered square cut, not a level of quality of a princess cut. Although no official 'ideal', isn't there different standards to which a princess can be evaluated... perhaps similar to what is shown here?

Princess cut dimensions

----------------

What Garry is trying to tell you: Fancies (princess, pears, etc) are not predictable even by the numbers. The numbers are a good set of parameters to begin with, but a princess stone can have great numbers and still leak too much light. Princess stones really need to be seen through the scope to confirm cut.

 

[Chris from Ideal-Scope]

That is not quite what Garry was saying A

What he means is there is no such animal a princess cut that performs like a well cut round.

There is no ideal-cut princess cut, there is only the best of the worst.

The regent does however compare favourably to a well cut round

 

[pricescope]

This one was simulated with DiamCalc.

It has 54% table and 76% total depth. Its performance is not so bad (the numbers are normilized on Tolkowskii ideal). Note the contrast is greater than for ideal Round.

Judging any fancy shape by table and depth only is incorrect. There are many other factors that affect diamond performance. It is even more complicated than for rounds (see 60/60 article).

 

[pricescope]

This is a real example from GoodOldGold: http://www.goodoldgold.com/pr93hvvs1.htm. It has 64% table and 71.3% depth.

I imported 3D Sarin into DiamCalc. Again its light return and contrast is very close to Tolkowski ideal.

 

[chris-uk04]

So is there a more definite criteria to determine the quality of princess cut? I'm sure there's more angles and measurement (pavilion, crown, girdle, etc) to a excellent cut, besides table and depth %. I'm an engineer so you have to understand that I'm a math type that looks at numbers and ratios and angles. Two diamonds with all of the same dimensions (along with the other 3c's) should look equally the same. Correct?

 

[pricescope]

Chris00nj, in order to evaluate a fancy cut correctly based on numbers even average crown and pavilion angles are not enough because there are minor facets and measurements that can vary and affect the performance.

There are several possible solutions. For example:

1. Let independent expert evaluate your stone within your money back period.
2. Ask for 3D Sarin scan and run it with DiamCalc.
3. Evaluate it with IdealScope (your vendor can do it for you). Note that some limited light leakage in Princess cut is not too bad.
4. Buy from a known trusted source. Btw, BlueNile Signature Princess should be rather good (according to some independent appraisers).

There are other ways of course. Use your common sense.

 

[aljdewey]

ChrisNJ.....please see reply above. Fancies have to be seen in order to determine cut quality.....crown/pavilion angles won't provide enough information. I know that doesn't satisfy your engineer's mind (lol) but fancies just aren't as predictable by the numbers as rounds are.




Chris from Ideal-scope......perhaps my comment was a bit oblique....it goes without saying (or at least I thought it did) that nothing performs like a RB, but that doesn't meant that everyone wants a RB. Perhaps I filled in the blanks a bit from previous convos involving Garry.




My point was this: Chris NJ is asking if there is a set of numbers....parameters that can help determine cut on a princess. My reply is no.....those aren't as helpful with fancies as they are with rounds.




Hope that clarifies it.

 

[diane5006]

Hi Al...so Don't take this the wrong way...but I am not feeling well and I may not get my words correctly...

But the say nothing performs like a RB is not truly correct...they are many reallllly bad RB out there...if you meant ideal cut H&A then that is closer to the truth

Yes it is true that fancies cannot be judged by numbers alone...

One of the most helpful thing when looking at fancies...is to look at Brilliance scope or other optical measurments (including your eyes

) such as Leonid mentioned...

So to go back to Garry Regent comment...I can't be sure what he was thinking...

But maybe this will help clarify

Chris a Regent is a modified square...it is the one modified square that has H&A (like an ideal cut RB) some other squares have hearts but no arrows...(eg Dream and Queen of Hearts)

Princess cuts have neither but that does not mean that then cannont be optically beautiful...

Leonig posted some great info...also look at tutorial here and at Good Old Gold (which I think you mentioned you have)...that will give you info on what happens with differnet numbers...ans illustrates the 'can't always go by the numbers)

Hope this was helpful...and made some sense

 

[diane5006]

My Regent set

 

[diane5006]

My e ring hearts

 

[diane5006]

My ering arrows...

Hope this has been helpfull

BAck to be for me

 

[Mara]

If you are looking for princess cuts and won't consider anything else, see below for some vendors that are pretty discriminating in their princess choices. Note that princess cuts as I am sure you have seen in person look and perform nothing like a round brilliant stone. So you have to want that LOOK in my opinion or else you may not be happy with your stone.




www.goodoldgold.com is pretty picky about his choices and also he sells the Regent which optically performs more like a RB--very beautiful.


www.dbof.com has a princess cut that Jenibear has in her ring, the pictures are stunning. Supposed to perform very well.


www.superbcert.com also has a princess cut that has gotten accolades in the past.




Those three would be good places to start looking. Look for a place that will give you an IdealScope image (the red/black) so that you can gauge light return, you want it to be as red as possible, with blacks and minimal whites which mean light leakage.




If you don't have your heart set yet on a Princess, check out the Regent, Queen of Hearts, Lucere stones (all on GOG's site with pictures)...these are some of the newer cuts that tend to look *somewhat* like a princess shape ...or the more squared round, and the Regent is the only fancy cut stone with hearts and arrows, indicating excellent symmetry. Something else to think about anyway.




Hard to judge fancies by numbers as the others noted. If you don't see the diamond in person, an IS image will help as well as actual photos of the stone and it's inclusions. Virtual shopping.




Good luck!

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/10/2003 11:56:23 AM diane5006 wrote:

But the say nothing performs like a RB is not truly correct...they are many reallllly bad RB out there...if you meant ideal cut H&A then that is closer to the truth

----------------

I also thought that it went without saying that I, of course, was referring to well cut.

Gee, I hope weren't not deteriorating into having to write an entire dissertation on every thread just to be understood.

I'm not looking to cover every finer point of buying a diamond in each and every thread.

Let's just leave it at this: ChrisNJ.....fancies cannot be determined as "performers" by numbers alone.

End. Hope that doesn't need more clarification.

 

[pricescope]

This DiamCalc simulation is done for 65/65 princess with crown height about 13%. Nothing really special.

 

[pricescope]

Another 65/65 with crown height 10.5% - not too good either...

 

[Mara]

Not so good is an understatement, those last two are dogs, probably what are termed 'typical princess cuts'. If that is what Fred is selling, PASS PASS PASS!




The first two with the blood red virtual representations are what you should be looking for.

 

[txideal]

Hello,
I may be late in reading this post, but we''re looking into having DCI make our setting ONLY. We''ve already purchased our diamond but they are local and have the setting that I want. It is just a simple "Tiffany" 6 prong solitaire platinum setting. His salesperson told me that they will give me a receipt for the diamond when I bring it in so that I know that their insurance policy will pay for any damages in case something should happen and also he''ll weigh it to make sure that it is the right stone etc. and will do the same after the diamond is mounted.

With liabiltiy issues of setting a stone, other jewelers in town may set the stone, but most of them shy away from it because we didn''t purchase the stone from them.

My question is this.... I know about FC''s reputation about diamonds and such, but would you trust him to set your stone? Or should I just trust IW Marks (local jeweler in Houston that has a great reputation).

Comments?

 

[higgsnyc]

I recently purchased a diamond from Fred, and I was extremely happy with the result. We agreed upon a set list of parameters when he began his search, and he knocked the cover off the ball in terms of quality and size, but didn''t come back to me to increase the price. I got a bigger, better diamond at the same price.

If I change my mind three years from now, he''ll buy the diamond back. For someone like myself, who isn''t an expert, that''s comforting. It may even be worth paying a premium for, though I don''t think I did. Again, if someone else convinces me I paid too much, Fred will buy it back.

Fred''s in the business to make money, just like everybody else who will sell you a diamond. He''s done a great job of marketing himself to make people comfortable, and there''s nothing wrong with that. I''m sure a lot of people who post here could be price/quality competitive, or even superior in price/quality to Fred, I don''t know. But if they''re better, there''s no need to throw mud to compete.

Go ahead and read the Houston bizjournal article. If it makes you nervous, then don''t send Fred a non-refundable deposit like those investors did. He won''t ask you to, anyway.

 

[lizzyd]

Date: 3/20/2005 5:37:37 PM
Author: higgsnyc

I recently purchased a diamond from Fred, and I was extremely happy with the result. We agreed upon a set list of parameters when he began his search, and he knocked the cover off the ball in terms of quality and size, but didn''t come back to me to increase the price. I got a bigger, better diamond at the same price.

If I change my mind three years from now, he''ll buy the diamond back. For someone like myself, who isn''t an expert, that''s comforting. It may even be worth paying a premium for, though I don''t think I did. Again, if someone else convinces me I paid too much, Fred will buy it back.

Not to be facetious or anything, but just out of curiosity, how would he buy it back from jail if that''s where he happened to be three years from now?

Cheers,
LizzyD