Forged GIA certificate? James Allen v. Wonder Jewelers

[greta2603]

Does anyone know if Wonder Jewelers (on ebay) and James Allen are the same company? I've just been browsing on ebay and a diamond (already in a setting) is listed by Wonder Jewelers is also available on the James Allen website. They both link to the same GIA certificate with the same report number and grading date. I'm just wondering if Wonder Jewels has stolen the James Allen certificate image or if the companies are affiliated. Anyone know?

 

[CedarRapids]

I have no idea if and how Wonder Jewelers is affiliated with JA. However, it is very common for vendors to list the same diamonds for sale.

When I purchased my loose diamond from JA, I Googled it (I entered the dimensions of the stone in the search engine) and found 4-5 other vendors indicating that it was for available for sale. All linked to the same AGS report. I ended up going with JA to but the stone.

 

[greta2603]

I know that lots of vendors buy from the same shared pool of loose stones and wouldn't find it strange were it not for the fact that Wonder Jewelers is selling the stone in a finished ring available for immediate purchase on ebay. What's the guarantee that I'll get that exact stone if I were to purchase the ring right now? How do they know that stone hasn't already been purchased from JA? Or am I overthinking this?

 

[emeraldmurphy]

Does James Allen list the stone as in stock? I have seen this happen with virtual inventory where multiple vendors try to sell the same stone, but don't actually list who owns the stone.
Per Wonder Jewelers ebay site they state the following
Our Inventory
Every diamond we sell has been personally selected; it's in our inventory, not listed on another seller's "virtual database." We know it well because we own it. And we invest our money very carefully, specializing in high-quality diamonds that are bright, fiery, and exceptionally well-priced

That said, it doesn't seem possible for them to be telling the truth because it shows up at JamesAllen (even if virtual)

Also, it seems exceedingly unlikely they have 28,000 stones "in stock" including >1100 in the 3+ Ct range yet no real feedback from PriceScope.com members

something doesn't seem right with them, we'll see what others have to say (I would generally trust a PriceScope vendor like JA when in doubt/conflict with another vendor statement) - always worries me seeing lots of feedback from same person and private auctions.

Their policy site has typo's and also worries me with 3 (or 7 depending on which page you read) day return policy

here's a past thread

Here's the BBB site (based on Los Angeles, seems unlikely to be affiliated since neither company mentions the other and on separate coasts) - 3 employees

 

[Unknown]

Mightbe a consignment ring, owner sells it in defferent place? ? What's the date of certificate?

 

[CedarRapids]

Sorry. I missed the important detail that the diamond was already set.

Calling both Wonder Jewelers and JA would be helpful (to all of us). What do they say?

I'll digress and repeat what everyone says on PS: it is important to go to an independent appraiser after purchasing a loose diamond and/or after having it set to confirm that the diamond matches what is described in its certificate.

 

[greta2603]

Here's the Wonder Jewels listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-10ct-GIA-Vintage-Oval-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-G-SI1-ON-SALE-/390367690276?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4752244543521153581

And the same diamond on JA:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1383647.asp

They're both report 17263531 graded on June 12, 2008.

Wonder Jewelers' corporate office is in Miami and JA has Miami listed as a city on its site.

 

[emeraldmurphy]

I would just be worried that the policies don't match with reality for virtual inventory

here is another quick example of same stone in two locations
WJ eBay and Excel Diamonds

to me based on the wording, they appear to be trying to sell virtual inventory stones at or above other vendors, and have difficult policies to make it easier to stay in business (RMA# etc, calling all eBay orders custom (by including free ring) etc.

 

[greta2603]

Just chatting with a Wonder Jewelers rep right now -- will report back.

 

[emeraldmurphy]

Here's the Wonder Jewels listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-10ct-GIA-Vintage-Oval-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-G-SI1-ON-SALE-/390367690276?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4752244543521153581

And the same diamond on JA:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1383647.asp

They're both report 17263531 graded on June 12, 2008.

Wonder Jewelers' corporate office is in Miami and JA has Miami listed as a city on its site.

also, per website and ebay, item location is California (they charge sales tax in CA, not Fl?) - generally thought the rule was you charge for all states you have a significant (retail?) presence?

 

[ruby59]

Not sure about this particular situation, but I can tell you that there are more than a few drop shippers on ebay who practically copy the entire diamond database. You can tell by their thousand and thousands of pages of diamond listings. It is inconceivable they would have that many in stock. From seeing Wonder Jewelers listings on ebay, I always thought they were a drop shipper as well.

 

[greta2603]

Chat InformationWelcome to our site. I can answer all your questions about the products listed on our site.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Terri'

you: Hello. I'm wondering if you're associated with James Allen jewelers in any way?

Terri: hello

Terri: no, we are not. Why?

you: One of your ebay listings links to a GIA certificate that's showing on the James Allen website.

you: Concerned about buying a ring from you as it doesn't appear that you own the diamond

Terri: neither does James Allen. Many companies in today's day and age list diamonds from different vendors in the US and World Wide

Terri: this is the nature of the business

Terri: no web company actually own the diamonds

Terri: buet

Terri: but

Terri: we do get it at a discounted rate from the suppliers

you: I understand that about loose diamonds -- it's just that this one is being sold already set, so there's no guarantee that I'd get that exact diamond if I bought the ring

Terri: of course

Terri: most diamonds are laser inscribed by the labratory

Terri: so when you receive it you can take it to a jeweler or if you own a magnifying glass you can detect it

Terri: and verify the stone against the report

you: yes, but what if someone buys the diamond from James Allen right now and I buy the ring from you tomorrow? The diamond is already sold, so I won't get that one.

Terri: well, the way the system works it basically receives an automated feed every day at

Terri: so if the stone was sold it will be removed automatically

Terri: with that said

Terri: there are instences rare but it does happen

Terri: when

Terri: a stone is sold in the morning by James Allen for example and we will sell it at night

Terri: in that case

Terri: we will notify you the the actual stone is not available and offer you an alternative at a better or equal value/specs

you: The difference to me is that your stone is being sold already set in a ring on ebay -- do you review your ebay listings every day to ensure that the stones in the rings listed haven't already sold?

you: And your ebay policies say you physically own the stones you're offering for sale:

you: Every diamond we sell has been personally selected; it's in our inventory, not listed on another seller's "virtual database." We know it well because we own it. And we invest our money very carefully, specializing in high-quality diamonds that are bright, fiery, and exceptionally well-priced.

you: hello?

 

[ruby59]

Interesting chat. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck.

They have over 37,000 individual listings, using the same photos over and over again. What you are seeing is a stock photo, not one of that diamond in an actual setting. They are a drop shipper. There are quite a few on ebay.

 

[greta2603]

you: hello?

Terri: sorry

Terri: 1 moment

Terri: our systems is automatic

Terri: if a stone is not available it should pull it out of ebay/our website within 24 hours

Terri: again, the system is not perfect but it works for the most part

you: but your policies say that every stone you offer is in your inventory and that you know each stone well because you own them

you: that doesn't appear to be the truth

Terri: I am honest with you in regards to this matter and as I stated no internet jeweler in this day and age "owns" the inventory

you: yes, you are being honest and i appreciate that

you: it's just that your policies aren't honest

Terri: can I see the listing you are referring to?

Terri: do you have the item number

you: www.ebay.com/itm/2-10ct-GIA-Vintage-Oval-Diamond-Engagement-Ring-G-SI1-ON-SALE-/390367690276?_trksid=p3286.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D3%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D4752244543521153581

you: and the james allen item is here: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Good-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1383647.asp

Terri: we didn't say in our policy we own it

Terri: what you sent me was probably wrriten by james allen

Terri: I just went over our policies, where did you see these lines?

you: Yes it does -- it's right here on your ebay seller page: http://cgi3.ebay.co/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=wonderjewelers

Terri: I saw it

Terri: we would have to address that

Terri: but the policy on the auction page is very specific

Terri: 1 thing I can guarantee you

Terri: if the stone is not sold by anybody else then this specific stone can you yours

you: Which is very frustrating, particularly in the case of an SI1 diamond, which may or may not be eye clean. Your ebay listing says it's 100% eye clean, but you have no way of knowing that because you haven't seen it. As a buyer I would have to take you at your word and would be more inclined to do so since your policies say you actually have the diamond in your inventory.

Terri: no need, SI1 by GIA will be 100% eye clean

you: I know none of this is personally your problem, but it does need to be raised. People are trying to get the best deal for their money and need to be able to trust jewelers.

Terri: ok, I just got off the phone with the supplier who owns the stone

Terri: the stone is on a 24 hour hold for me

you: That isn't my point -- I'm saying you can't officially say a stone is eye clean if you haven't seen it.

Terri: so if you buy it this particular stone is yours

Terri: further more

Terri: I just got off the phone with the supplier and he guaranteed me that the stone is 100% clean

Terri: and we comfortably say that on GIA SI1 stones since

Terri: by definition, SI1 will be eye clean

Terri: GIA is VERY strict in grading and I never seen SI1 GIA that was not in 10 years of working in this company

Terri: I've seen tens of thousands of stones

Terri: and

Terri: if you are not happy when you get it you CAN get your 100% money back

you: I understand all about GIA grading. My point is that you have a stone listed as in your inventory and eye clean. It is not in your inventory and you would therefore have no first-hand way of knowing it's eye clean.

you: Buying a stone online is difficult at the best of times, but misleading policies just make it worse for your customers.

you: I should tell you our chat is going on pricescope.com

 

[LJL]

"by the way youre on candid camera" ... thats what i thought on that last line you sent them
this is entertaining - clearly sketchy, trying to talk their way out of it

 

[greta2603]

So, um, yes, I won't be buying from Wonder Jewelers any time soon!

 

[decodelighted]

Oh lawdie. That picture is SO OBVIOUSLY a stock photo and not actually the ring and/or diamond you'll actually get. Ebay is not for the faint of heart and, I'd argue ... not for E-rings period.

Buyer beware.

 

[OCgirl]

He's been in the business for over 10 years and he hasn't seen a non-eye-clean GIA SI1 graded stone? Even I have seen non-eye-clean GIA VS2 and SI1 stones and I've only seen like less than 20 loose stones in person. Wow.............

 

[NervousBuyer]

Maybe since they never actually "see" the stones in person, since they don't own any it seems, they can say they've never "seen" an SI1 that wasn't clean, because they don't see any!

 

[greta2603]

Maybe since they never actually "see" the stones in person, since they don't own any it seems, they can say they've never "seen" an SI1 that wasn't clean, because they don't see any!

Hee hee!

 

[malnik]

Ok you blew their cover. Good for you. They're selling quality diamonds nevertheless. It's a small business and just trying to make a buck. Leave them alone.

 

[ame]

Ok you blew their cover. Good for you. They're selling quality diamonds nevertheless. It's a small business and just trying to make a buck. Leave them alone.

Leave them alone? Are you affiliated?

She posted it on here as a reference for a future shopper. They lied in their listing about having it in house, which right there would get their ebay listings pulled.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

There are PS advertisers who are drop shippers. Nothing technically wrong with that. James Allen is owned by a diamond supplier so I imagine many of their stones are advertised by many different vendors. I strongly prefer to buy in-house stones, so I would be unlikely to ever deal with a drop shipper. This ebay vendor would be better off just telling the truth. If they have a return policy, they don't need to hide that they are drop shippers. The other deceptive thing they did was list it as a 2.10 ct. diamond engagement ring. It should have had ctw or preferably just the center stone weight.

 

[Amys Bling]

So, um, yes, I won't be buying from Wonder Jewelers any time soon!

I wouldn't. So they pretty much are sayng they"trust" that the stone is eyeclean, they don't know.