Follow-up to "Combining Assets"

[alli_esq]

Hi, everyone,

During the summer, I posted a topic about combining assets with my semi-new hubby (got married in November 2009) and how difficult that process was. I got a lot of really helpful, really great feedback, and I wanted to let you know how it was all coming together as a result of the advice I got here. I apologize for the huge post I am making here, but I've got a lot to say.

As some of you may remember, my DH and I had been splitting all our bills 50-50 even though he was making more money than I was and I have considerably more (educational) debt than he does. We had barely any money in joint accounts. After hearing from all of you, I made several spreadsheets with several different methods of budgeting to introduce to DH to see which one he felt the most comfortable pursuing. The result was this:

-- I have a list of our monthly joint expenses, including our living expenses, which we now contribute to based on a pro-rated percent of our income

-- I have a list of our separate expenses which pretty much only include our individual student loans (I owe almost 10x what he does each month) and a bit of pocket money for each of us to do what we please without having to ask the other (though in all honesty, if we ever spend more than about $100, we ask the other if it's okay and neither of us has ever withheld consent)--as well as my health insurance tax (which I will explain below in great detail)

-- We both contribute a pro-rata share of our income to joint savings accounts (which we will eventually merge into some sort of bond, I think, but we're starting small here) and a pro-rata share into DH's 401k (my job does not offer a 401k, so we put a percentage of both of our income into his account, and his employer matches that at a rate of 50%)

-- We are both setting aside a certain amount for our separate savings, though, because I earn less and owe more, the amount that I save individually is many many times less than what DH saves--however, the majority of our savings is going into joint savings now, so I am much more comfortable with that.

We have been working with this system since September 1st and there have been virtually no snags--it seems to be working out quite well, since we both have more of what we want: DH still has a separate account for himself that will give him a sense of security and I have felt that we are acting more as a team by saving jointly for our joint goals (including saving for a down payment and saving for a travel fund).

However, we have now hit one rather large bump in the road.

I receive health insurance through DH's company, and I have been fortunate enough to be covered under this plan since we moved in together (long before we were married) as his "domestic partner." DH's company pays for my benefits at a rate of 100%, but they included it as part of his salary, so his paycheck was taxed based on the benefit I received. I had been reimbursing DH for that tax each month since 2008, when I started receiving the benefits.

Now, DH is notoriously irresponsible, and I really do take care of paying for virtually all of our bills, do all our paperwork, make sure our taxes get filed, etc., etc., etc., which typically is fine with me, since I'm a bit of a control freak. However, when it comes to things like this, where he is the employee and I am not able to take care of certain things on my own, I have to rely on him. The problem is this:
I told DH, when we returned from our honeymoon in December 2009, that he had to 1) change his marital status for tax purposes to "married" and 2) change MY designation on his health insurance open enrollment to "spouse" rather than "domestic partner." At that time, I was unaware if we would be any visible tax implication, but I thought we might as well have it accurately reflect our new status. I later heard that, with all the same-sex marriage debate going on, that many companies tax health insurance benefits for "domestic partners" but not married couples. (NOTE: AS AN ADVOCATE FOR THE LGBTQ COMMUNITY, I DO NOT AGREE WITH THIS POLICY--but that is a story for another day.)

Well, now that I finally have all my paperwork ready to change my name (it took an inordinately long time for me to get everything done), I have been asking DH for months to change my name on the insurance plan so that I am consistent with all my identification cards. Naturally, he hasn't done that, so when I called last week to see if I could do it, I discovered that: 1) DH did not change my status last year to "spouse" and 2) that I have personally been paying $190 per month in taxes that I would not have had to pay if he had done what I had asked him to do in December of 2009. (I also learned that I did not have the authority to change my status OR my name myself--that only DH, as the employee, could do that.)

Now, $190/month may not be a lot to all of you, but it is a lot to us, and, more specifically, me. I was out of work for the better part of a year, and during that entire time (though I did work part-time for part of it), I paid 50% of ALL of our joint bills, 100% of all of my loan interest payments (I could not afford to pay principal) and 100% of the health insurance tax I presumably owed. Essentially, I have paid nearly $2,000 over the course of the last year in taxes--which I wouldn't have owed but for DH's negligence.

When I learned this, I was furious. DH had told me he had changed my status (which I never checked--I just believed him), but he never did. DH's reaction is that he says he feels bad that he cost me the money--HOWEVER, he did NOT offer to split the cost of what I had paid this past year (even since we started combining finances in September, I have been paying for this tax with my SEPARATE funds). DH's feeling is that I wouldn't even HAVE health insurance if it weren't for him, so I should just be grateful. I have explained to him that being grateful for having health insurance (which I positively AM!) is a completely different issue than feeling that he failed me and being deeply concerned that he will fail me again. (I also would have gotten on another health plan if I had to and I would have paid for it myself, but I was lucky enough to not have to do that.)

The truth is, I honestly wouldn't have accepted the money from him if he had offered. The point to me is that he SHOULD offer. The point to me is that I can trust him to take CARE of me, do the things I need to rely on him to do...and if he doesn't, to take responsibility for it.

There is more to this story, but I think I've said enough for now.

I am curious to hear what people will say here. I had such great feedback last time--you are all so smart and insightful...wondering if you have anything else up your sleeves.
(Edited to fix typos)

 

[dragonfly411]

Alli - I feel like your husband doesn't understand the full levity of financial decisions and how they affect the two of you, or even more, you individually. I also think that he doesn't realize it is a failure towards you on his part. I think you should just simply explain that you feel like he failed you, and that is what bothers you more than the money. I'd let the money part go as water under the bridge and move forward. It sounds like you've made good progress so far.

 

[alli_esq]

Hi, dragonfly,

I have spoken with DH about my feelings on the matter (I felt bad enough with the length of my post so I didn't get into that in my OP)...essentially, where we hit an impasse is:

-- I feel I cannot trust him to take care of things, especially things that ONLY affect ME and do NOT affect HIM. I am fearful about our future--that he sees me being on his insurance plan as being a "favor" to me, even though it costs him nothing (literally, nothing).

-- He feels that I am a spoiled brat who takes having health insurance for granted (true, I am one of the fortunate Americans who has always had SOME form of health coverage, at times better than others) and that he feels that by working at this particular company, he is making less actual cash in his salary because he receives other, alternative benefits, including health insurance for his domestic partner/spouse.

Like I said, it's an impasse. I think we both understand where the other stands, but we just simply do not agree. It is very painful to me that I feel that he does not take care of me...this isn't necessarily a financial thing--it's that he couldn't take the 3 minutes it would have taken to MAKE SURE my designation was correct so that while I wasn't working, I would not have to STRUGGLE to make these payments. He just didn't care enough about me, in my mind, to do this tiny little thing that would have saved me a lot of grief (forget about the money itself--having that extra $190 to pay each month caused me significant stress when I was only living on unemployment).

It's not about the money. It's really not. $2,000 in the end is not a FORTUNE (it's not NOTHING either) and I'd happily pay that amount if it were necessary (in fact, when I thought it WAS necessary, I never once complained about it, never said a peep--because I DID feel lucky to have health insurance so cheaply). It just upsets me that even in retrospect, he doesn't seem to care how hard it was for me to scrape that money together, and he feels in no way responsible to help me pay for it, even though in my mind, it is 100% his fault that I've owed it.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Is there any way that his employer could retroactively reverse your status to spouse, then have his salary adjusted and taxes adjusted? That would be the first thing I would pursue.

If not, I would expect your DH to absorb 100% of the tax liability? He won't agree to split it. Wow, that's unkind of him, considering it's all his fault!! He should be paying 100% of it and suffering the consequences of his actions! Not YOU!

Can I ask a question -- I guess I read through everything rather quickly, but how is it that you've been paying the $190 per month and you weren't aware of it until now? Sorry, I should go back and re-read . . . Should he have been aware of it if he was looking at his pay statements. Not sure how the $190 was being paid -- directly? At the end of the year?

 

[alli_esq]

Hi, LovesVintage,

Unfortunately, no, his employer cannot retroactively reverse the taxes I did ask.

Not sure if this makes any sense, but you know how when you're W-2, the company automatically deducts your income tax? Well, the way it worked was that his employer added the amount it cost to pay for my health insurance to part of his "earnings," and his paycheck was automatically reduced by the tax the government was charging him based on that benefit each month. However, I did not know that he did not change me to "spouse" because it doesn't say "domestic partner" on the paycheck as the deduction, and I never thought to check to make sure what my designation was, because he TOLD me he changed me to "spouse." I just basically wrote him a check every month to reimburse him.

I don't know if that makes any more sense to you...let me know if I am still being unclear.

 

[Loves Vintage]

Edited: I see, so you thought the extra $190 tax was still correct, even though you were his spouse at the time.

I wonder if there is a way to get this fixed through the IRS, by making an adjustment on his (or your joint) tax return to reflect that this was really an overpayment?? You were married, which you can prove with your marriage cert, and that benefit should not be taxable income. Does his company's HR department use an outside payroll service? I wonder if there is a way you can talk to them. That actually may not be helpful because I think they just follow the direction of the company whose payroll they service. Something tells me that this should be correctable, but you need to keep pressing and need to find the right person to fix it. I could imagine my HR department non-chalantly telling employees they can't fix something simply because they don't know enough about it, you know?

 

[alli_esq]

LV, when I asked HR, they told me that the only way the designation can be changed is during the ONE time per year that they have open enrollment (open enrollment lasts from around October through December each year)--so when I told her that I had gotten married last November, she insisted that it could only be changed for this coming year (2011) and that it could not be retroactive, because the designation (as well as the name on the account, the health plan we were on, etc.) could not be changed except for that one time per year, during open enrollment (which would have been October through December 2009).

I will do some more questioning to find out for sure that there is no way to change this (I'll ask my accountant too)--maybe there is a way, thanks for giving me some hope there!

But that doesn't really change the character of the problem I have with DH

 

[princesss]

Alli, would your husband consider therapy at all? He seems to have a serious problem looking at the two of you as a team, and puts himself ahead of your relationship as a whole. I'm pretty steamed up for you, and it seems like unless you nip this in the bud, he's going to keep putting himself ahead of your family and it seems like you need marriage to be more of a partnership than he's willing to give. Maybe he just doesn't know any different, but it seems like a big issue that will need to be figured out sometime soon.

*big hugs*

 

[JulieN]

I'm sorry that you're going through this, my dear. He sounds remarkably selfish to me. It is his mistake, he should pay for it entirely. For some reason, you didn't make finding a spouse who would help take care of you to be a requirement, and now you're having doubts. I think both of your arguments are correct, (except for the spoiled brat part!) though it takes a certain kind of cold, economist's rational view of things to make his, and it still doesn't let him off the hook for his mistake.

 

[swimmer]

Alli, would your husband consider therapy at all? He seems to have a serious problem looking at the two of you as a team, and puts himself ahead of your relationship as a whole. I'm pretty steamed up for you, and it seems like unless you nip this in the bud, he's going to keep putting himself ahead of your family and it seems like you need marriage to be more of a partnership than he's willing to give. Maybe he just doesn't know any different, but it seems like a big issue that will need to be figured out sometime soon.

*big hugs*

ditto. I remember your post from before and yes, I still wonder if you should have children at what age he will expect them to start paying back the cost of their diapers... For the matter at hand, I get why you are steamed. He made the mistake, he should pay -but you are a lawyer, you know this. Can you find out when he is going to be over being poor as a child or is it going to be a permanent stick that he beats you with? I'm so sorry Alli, and I maintain that you should charge him for your financial services. It isn't "equitable" that you do all that work. There is NOTHING FAIR about the system that he has imposed...and nothing loving or kind or caring or charitable at all. I do hope he can get some counseling, this has got to be so hard for you.

 

[jaysonsmom]

I'm sorry Alli, I'm going to be blunt. I cannot relate to any part of your post. In my mind, marriage means integrating body, mind, soul, and definitely finances. I have never written my husband a check for my share of anything. My debt is his debt, my gains are his gains, my spending money is his and vice versa. The fact that $190 a month is causing this rift in your relationship is not the main issue at all, I think you need some type of relationship counseling.

 

[Kismet]

LV, when I asked HR, they told me that the only way the designation can be changed is during the ONE time per year that they have open enrollment (open enrollment lasts from around October through December each year)

In general that's true, but the big exception to that is when a 'life event' happens. Life event being marriage, birth, death (possibly divorce too). It would really suck if you gave birth in February but couldn't add the kiddo to your insurance until October.

I imagine it is possible for them to file a corrected w2 but I can't really see them doing that because according to the information they had at the time, the w2 was correct. Plus, it would take effort on your husband's part to move it along and from what you've written, it doesn't seem like something he would do.

The whole 'you should be grateful for any insurance' sounds to me like your husband doesn't want to admit he's was wrong in any way (shifting the conversation away from what he didn't do to what he does do).

 

[alli_esq]

Princesss: unfortunately, DH has had two very bad experiences with therapy and he has told me point blank that he will never go back to a therapist (in his defense, his experiences have truly been wretched, but speaking as someone who has had a considerable amount of therapy in the past, I don't think it's fair of him to judge the entire field as he has). I agree that he does have major issues with relationships that are deeply seated (I really do get where he comes from--it's about his family abandoning him when he had serious financial problems when he graduated from college) and I don't know that he will ever get over them. Thanks for the hugs--I'll take them!

JulieN: I hear you. The way I see is it is that I never talked about combining finances with DH before we got married because after getting out of school (I met DH while I was in school), I was first working at a job making VERY very little money, then I was unemployed and I did not feel it was fair to ask him to start combining finances when I was so broke and could not contribute (I have an ego too, after all, ha). It was a huge mistake of me to assume that once I began working again, he would feel ready to start to combine things and would feel, after we were legally a family, that he would want to begin taking care of me (I have always wanted to take care of him, but we come from very different backgrounds--mine being a much more generous and loving one than his).

I still love him very deeply and I will continue working at our marriage--I am not going to leave him for this, not now...but I have also made it clear to him, however, that although we are not yet ready to have kids anyway, I will not have a child with him until I feel secure in the fact that he will take care of me and our future child when the time comes. That hurt him a lot--that wasn't my intention, it's the truth--but it did strike him that I felt so strongly about it.

I agree that it is cold of him, and he is not always a cold person--it's just mostly always about money. He is so fearful of being abandoned because of his past "trauma." I am not his parents, and I try to tell him and show him that in every possible way...and I agree that having a past where this was a problem does not get him off the hook here...but it does explain some things. I hope it changes, but I realize it may not...and if it doesn't it will not be for my lack of effort, it will be because of his inability to move on from his past.

swimmer: I remember your comments too--thanks again for coming back to this topic. It is painful for me, but I do have to take responsibility in the sense that it was not something I addressed specifically with him before we got married. I do keep hoping to overcome him with my own generosity and that if I continue to show him more love and adoration than he got from his parents (which I truly do feel for him--he is a really great person...except where money is concerned), perhaps it will get through to him that I AM NOT THEM. Perhaps I will get through to him. Perhaps not.

jaysonsmom: It is nice that you have that kind of marriage. That must be very comforting. I agree that the $190 is not the issue--it is certainly an emotional issue, not about the money. Maybe we do need relationship counseling--unfortunately, DH is not open to it.

 

[swingirl]

I'm sorry Alli, I'm going to be blunt. I cannot relate to any part of your post. In my mind, marriage means integrating body, mind, soul, and definitely finances. I have never written my husband a check for my share of anything. My debt is his debt, my gains are his gains, my spending money is his and vice versa. The fact that $190 a month is causing this rift in your relationship is not the main issue at all, I think you need some type of relationship counseling.

Ditto.
What on earth would happen if one of you got injured or ill and couldn't work? Would that one then "owe" the other for using up the "combined assets" and have to write a check to pay them back? I could not live this way although I know some people do live even-steven. I just doesn't see how it's possible long term. It seems like the spouse that makes less income is always beholding to the "wealthy" spouse.

 

[alli_esq]

Kismet: I believe you're right in virtually all respects--however, because we got married back in 2009 and it was not changed during the open enrollment of that year, they said that the window that would have been available then has since closed. I will look into it though, for sure. Maybe there is some way to fix it, and maybe it will take some work on the part of DH--AND maybe he feels badly enough about his prior negligence that he'll do something about it this time.

You are also correct that DH deflects responsibility when and wherever he can. He was extremely apologetic about screwing this up for me until I mentioned to him that his mistake cost me $x--and he then turned around and got completely defensive. I tried to approach the issue to see if he would offer to help me pay for it (to gauge the veracity of his "apology," you might say) and quickly realized, as he said I should just be grateful for the insurance, that he wasn't really taking responsibility here.

Like I said, we did talk about it at length this weekend, but ultimately, although I see it as "you didn't do something for me and therefore, I was charged money I shouldn't have had to pay," he sees it as "you wouldn't have had this to begin with if it weren't for me, and the $2,000 is a small premium to pay for the benefit you get."

swingirl: and that is why I have told DH that until I feel more confident in his interest in taking care of me (not financially again--just taking CARE of me), I will not have children with him. I definitely am fearful as to how he would behave if something awful happened to me...pretty terrible to feel that way. But again, I have to take some responsibility here for not making sure that I could trust him with these things before we got married. We have had some pretty significant issues arise (medical and otherwise) since we met, and we have been there for each other when it has counted...but now I see how he is with money and how he clings to it...and it makes me realize I was stupid to think that getting married would make him feel like I was family to him--especially since he doesn't even consider his own parents "family" as I define it.

 

[iheartscience]

Alli, would your husband consider therapy at all? He seems to have a serious problem looking at the two of you as a team, and puts himself ahead of your relationship as a whole. I'm pretty steamed up for you, and it seems like unless you nip this in the bud, he's going to keep putting himself ahead of your family and it seems like you need marriage to be more of a partnership than he's willing to give. Maybe he just doesn't know any different, but it seems like a big issue that will need to be figured out sometime soon.

*big hugs*

ditto. I remember your post from before and yes, I still wonder if you should have children at what age he will expect them to start paying back the cost of their diapers... For the matter at hand, I get why you are steamed. He made the mistake, he should pay -but you are a lawyer, you know this. Can you find out when he is going to be over being poor as a child or is it going to be a permanent stick that he beats you with? I'm so sorry Alli, and I maintain that you should charge him for your financial services. It isn't "equitable" that you do all that work. There is NOTHING FAIR about the system that he has imposed...and nothing loving or kind or caring or charitable at all. I do hope he can get some counseling, this has got to be so hard for you.

Ditto. And I probably said this in your last thread, but honestly, you are WAY too forgiving and understanding of his "trauma." What his parents did or did not do 10-15 years ago should have nothing to do with you and your finances currently. And I don't think it was hurtful at all for you to tell him you wouldn't have kids with him until he proves he'll take care of you and your future children. I would never have kids with someone so selfish and rigid.

I don't mean to slam your husband, but my jaw drops when I read your posts about how he treats you regarding finances.

 

[swimmer]

Allie, I don't mean to sound so harsh, my heart is just going out to you and I am so upset with your DH.

I'm also married to a deeply "money conscious" man and I feel your pain -money is such an emotional thing and when two people come from very different places it is hard to find a common ground. I hope that you can find a way to understand each other, but it sounds like you are doing the lion's share of work and compromising. Why do you think he was surprised about your stance on children? You are being amazingly generous and patient with him, I hope he gets how much his issues are hurting you. I hope you can find a place that works for both of you, but I know from experience that it took me and DH some time and little things still upsets me sometimes if I forget to think about the big picture. So yes, I am projecting some of my frustration with my DH onto yours, but some he has earned all on his own I am so upset for you!

It seems to me that he is doing to you what his parents did to him! He gets permission to cut you off financially and leave you to flounder because his parents did that to him? Sometimes when DH and I fight we read the promises we made to each other on our wedding day out loud and see what we need to work on. Perhaps your vows didn't include details on fiduciary responsibilities, but honoring, cherishing, and establishing a new family based on trust...is he doing that? Could you get pastoral counseling since he refuses to see a licensed therapist?

 

[LadyBlue]

alli, Your situation seems pretty complicated to be solve just in your own. You guys need counseling ASAP, there is not other choice, if you want to stay married and if you want to success, you need find help.

My only comment is that, in my opinion, you have the same problem as he does. He made the mistake to not change the status, but he does not own you any money. In marriage, some decisions will make you poorer or richer, as a couple, in this case this mistake make you poorer. It's a lesson for the future. He does own you an apology for not doing it on time, but I don't think he own you any money. And to be honest if my husband was asking me to pay 2,000 for a mistake I did in the health insurance that he has because of my job. I will totally feel he has been very ungrateful to me. Because I would not had made the mistake is he was not in the plan that my company offers to me.

 

[movie zombie]

for me its a trust issue: he flat out lied that he did something you asked him to do and he agreed to do. that action cost you $190 per month. if you had done this to him he'd be not only demand to be paid back, he'd want interest.

charge him $190 per month for paying the bills and following up behind him to make sure he's done what he agreed to do unless he can provide written receipts, etc. that he has actually done those items. time is money and your time is equally valuable as his even if you think you're a control freak. you've stated you have to take your time to pay the bills because he can't be held responsible to do so.

thankfully, you've laid it on the line that you are unwilling to have a child with him at this time as he has not proven his ability to have your back.

you're a better person than i am.....i'd have let him know what his share of cost for a divorce is going to be unless he gets over crying about his youth and poverty and starts acting like a man committed to a marriage with a woman he loves. the point of marriage is to walk down the road of life together....he appears to be marching to another drummer.

my trust would be gone due to his lie and i'd never be able to trust that he'd have my back in an emergency.

in his defense, he is who he is and has a right to be that person. the question is xan you learn to live with it and accept him as he is?

this really isn't about $ as much as it is about trust and what constitutes a relationship.

MoZo

ps i applaud you for being able to present a workable prorated financial picture for him that is acceptable to you both. in this instance, trust has been broken and that is much harder to "fix".

 

[perry]

Here's a guy's perspective (and one that is logical enough that he may also work out agreements on how to split expenses):

While money may not be what trips our trigger - the concept that he hurt your feelings (non-money) is likely more important.

He married you - and his not changing his status at work to "Married" is a sign of disrespect and/or lack of interest.

I don't have a solution - but, he should be willing to change his status soley because he married you.

As for the finances: Don't worry about it - its money under the bridge and long gone. It will not affect your future in 3-5 years. You need to let it go. I presume you married him for love and respect, and not for money.... Show it.

I realize that this may sound a little harsh. I'm just looking at it as some of my more literal co-workers view things (for those who think I'm too logical - you should see some of the other engineers where I work).

Perry

 

[steph72276]

alli, Your situation seems pretty complicated to be solve just in your own. You guys need counseling ASAP, there is not other choice, if you want to stay married and if you want to success, you need find help.

My only comment is that, in my opinion, you have the same problem as he does. He made the mistake to not change the status, but he does not own you any money. In marriage, some decisions will make you poorer or richer, as a couple, in this case this mistake make you poorer. It's a lesson for the future. He does own you an apology for not doing it on time, but I don't think he own you any money. And to be honest if my husband was asking me to pay 2,000 for a mistake I did in the health insurance that he has because of my job. I will totally feel he has been very ungrateful to me. Because I would not had made the mistake is he was not in the plan that my company offers to me.

I agree with this. I feel like you asking him for money just feeds into his outlook that absolutely everything needs to be separate. I know couples keep separate money and that works for them, but I don't know of anyone that does it to this extreme where someone is always writing a check to someone and someone always owes the person something. I feel like you have more of a roommate type relationship than a marriage. Heck, does he ask you for your half of the money when he goes out to grab you guys a burger at McDonalds? I'm not trying to be harsh, but I really really feel for you. That is no way to live. I agree with others that he's got some major issues and I'm not sure you being generous to him is going to solve anything.

 

[missy]

I am sorry you are dealing with this and I feel that this issue is about a lot more than money.
In my experience people who are parsimonious like this have other issues that are at the root of their problem and I agree that counseling is a good way to get to the root of this problem. For the health of your relationship.

I do not know you or your dh and nor do I pretend to be an expert on your relationship and everyone needs to do what is right for them within their relationship. However, looking from the outside in I have to agree with some of the previous posters who commented that this is not the way a marriage should be. It does seem more like you are roomates or business partners.
When you are in a marriage you are a team. You support each other- emotionally as well as financially. You are in it together for the long haul and you are each other's support system. For good and for bad. You shouldn't be keeping score and what is yours is his and what is his is yours. Anyway, that's the way I see it.

I wish you and your husband the best of luck in sorting this out and I think counseling is the way to go at least to get your husband to realize there is a problem.

 

[Hera]

So much good advice has been given out already but I just wanted to add that you are only adding band aids to the wound in this relationship because the wound has not been healed. You will only be able to repeat this until you find some way to mend it properly.
Money is one of the top reasons for divorce and I am really afraid for your marriage. If he's not willing to go to therapy, then your only other option is to accept him for what he is.

 

[kama_s]

Alli, I have to come back and say the exact same thing I said in your previous thread. You think he cares about you, but let me tell you very bluntly: he doesn't. He doesn't genuinely care about you. And the things he says (be grateful for having any health insurance) and does are horrible and unforgiveable.

Unfortunately, you don't see it now, and I am hoping you see what the rest of us are seeing sooner rather than later. No amount of "trauma" would be a reason good enough for the way he treats you.

Hugs, honey.

 

[iota15]

I'm emotionally steamed for you... but on the other hand, he made one mistake over a year ago - one that ended up costing you money, yes (but he didn't know that at the time, either).

It's not like he thought, I know this will help Allie and forgot about it. He probably had every intention to do it, didn't really see any greater purpose other than "administrative clarity", and it just left his mind.

Should you end up charging him for that mistake? Sure, if you were suing him in the court of your marriage. His negligence caused you harm. On the other hand, you admit you would have been paying something anyway... So, should he deduct from the $2000 owed what you would have paid to another insurance provider (because effectively, he was your provider)? Would you actually end up owing him more money?

Eat the $190/month and ask him to change your status now. Now that he knows how this status will affect you, I'm sure he'll make the steps to change it.

Your husband made a mistake - but maybe it's a little disproportional to say, "I think he isn't taking care of me, or he doesn't think of me" when really, neither of you knew the implications at that time.... His careless mistake over what was seen as a trivial matter (by both of you at the time) should not be generalized as his overall view of you and your relationship.

I would be dumbfounded and hurt too, if a trivial mistake I made a year ago led to my partner saying, he does not want to reproduce with me. Should your DH have offered to pay or split the cost of your insurance tax? It would have been nice. However, under the system you are both operating in, you are responsible for your own insurance. You would have had those responsibilities regardless of the benefits conferred to you through his employment.

Although I must say, you are both making a lot of progress away from this tit for tat system. Your financial plan, I'm sure, makes a lot of sense to a lot of working couples out there. So take this experience for what it is - ironing out the wrinkles, and another move away from you owe me this, and I owe you that (eat the money, see the situation for what it is, and move on). I think the less cheque writing to each other back and forth, the better overall.

But for the record, I think he could have been more sensitive to your plight and frustrations overall.

 

[FrekeChild]

for me its a trust issue: he flat out lied that he did something you asked him to do and he agreed to do. that action cost you $190 per month. if you had done this to him he'd be not only demand to be paid back, he'd want interest.

charge him $190 per month for paying the bills and following up behind him to make sure he's done what he agreed to do unless he can provide written receipts, etc. that he has actually done those items. time is money and your time is equally valuable as his even if you think you're a control freak. you've stated you have to take your time to pay the bills because he can't be held responsible to do so.

thankfully, you've laid it on the line that you are unwilling to have a child with him at this time as he has not proven his ability to have your back.

you're a better person than i am.....i'd have let him know what his share of cost for a divorce is going to be unless he gets over crying about his youth and poverty and starts acting like a man committed to a marriage with a woman he loves. the point of marriage is to walk down the road of life together....he appears to be marching to another drummer.

my trust would be gone due to his lie and i'd never be able to trust that he'd have my back in an emergency.

in his defense, he is who he is and has a right to be that person. the question is xan you learn to live with it and accept him as he is?

this really isn't about $ as much as it is about trust and what constitutes a relationship.

MoZo

ps i applaud you for being able to present a workable prorated financial picture for him that is acceptable to you both. in this instance, trust has been broken and that is much harder to "fix".

I don't think I actually posted in the last thread, but I remember reading it and being angry then...

I'm with MoZo. This is not a financial issue, it is 100% a trust issue. And I don't blame you at all for not wanting to reproduce with him. Honestly I don't.

I am totally pissed off for you. HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!


Also, iota, I think you should read the previous thread...this isn't just about this one mistake with the health insurance tax...

 

[Brown.Eyed.Girl]

I remember your last thread Alli (not sure if I posted on it), but I was so furious for you back then, and I'm even more steamed now. Like the others have said, this is less of a money issue and more of a trust issue. I commend you on telling him straight out kids aren't an option until you know you can trust him to take care of both of you. Big hugs!

 

[neatfreak]

I haven't posted recently but feel compelled to post to you Alli. This is a huge red flag. A husband should NEVER tell his wife that she should be grateful to get coverage from his insurance. Period. That is so disrespectful I don't even know where to start.

This alone worries me a ton. Regardless of his past trauma with money, THIS has nothing to do with money. THIS has to do with respect, love, and commitment.

I think couples can for sure keep separate accounts and be happy. But when one of you is unemployed, the other should step up. Did your DH really let you struggle when you were unemployed while he continued to fund his savings??? Ridiculous.

When one of you needs insurance the other can provide AT NO COST, then the other steps up. Telling you that you should be grateful? No man who respects you would tell you that.

That is what marriages are about--being there to support your partner when necessary. Seems to me you do a lot of supporting and he just lets you flounder when your chips are down. He just isn't stepping up for you when you need him, and that to me is a huge red flag.

I'm sorry to be blunt, but you really need to think this through and have some serious discussions with him about how he is treating you. HUGE hugs. We are rooting for you.

 

[Haven]

Hey Alli. I remember your Combining Assets thread, and I remember passing along some personal finance advice that I read in books. I didn't say much more than "I just can't relate to your situation" in that thread, because honestly honey, I was flat out shocked after reading about the way you two handle money. HOWEVER, I know that different couples handle money differently so I just didn't feel it was my place to say whether your DH's approach was a red flag or not.

Now that I've read this follow-up thread, I have to say it: This is a red flag.

As others have already said, These problems seem to be rooted in trust, not money. And, your husband's behavior doesn't fall in line with that of a man who honestly, genuinely, cares for his wife. I'm so sorry to say this, my heart aches for you and your situation, especially after all of the hard work you've put in to try and fix it. You should be so proud of all the steps you've taken, and it's obvious that you've put a lot of time and energy into making this money issue work. But Alli, this is just a symptom of what seems to be a much larger problem.

All I can tell you is that it feels really, truly wonderful to be married to someone who is genuinely on your side NO MATTER WHAT. My husband and I have functioned as a unit for as long as I can remember, and things just aren't ever this hard for us. Our money goes into one checking account and one savings account. We sit down together to reassess our financial goals. And he loves me so much that when I came home tonight and told him I'd just spent another $100 buying food kitchen things for students of mine who have NOTHING, he hugged me and asked if I bought them dish soap and sponges, because if not we have extras in the laundry room. He didn't ask why I was spending our money, he saw that this was important to me, and he was immediately on board. Because we are a team, and that's what we do.

My DH just came in and asked me what I was writing about when he saw it wasn't the novel I'm supposed to be writing, so I gave him a synopsis of your situation. He first said "Why are they even married?" and then he said "I can't listen to this, that's ridiculous. He doesn't care about her." He walked out of the room shaking his head.

Honey, this isn't good. There are big things that need fixing here. I hope you can find some help, or that your DH will be open to speaking to a professional about this. Big hugs to you.

 

[alli_esq]

Thank you, everyone, for your comments.

I don't have the energy right now to respond to each of you right now--long day at work and another one on its way tomorrow...I hope to have time to respond tomorrow night...

but...I'll be honest--I don't know what I was expecting when I posted this today, but I am really wondering whether it was a good idea for me emotionally. I mean, I have posted several issues over the years and gotten great responses, and yes, some of them have been difficult to read...but this one...wow. I literally just spent about 20 minutes reading everyone's comments and bawling my eyes out. I guess I wasn't ready to hear what everyone had to say.

Thank you, still, for saying it. FWIW (not much), I do believe that my husband loves me and I want to believe that if I show him enough love, he will begin to trust me enough to finally dive in with both feet in this arena. I don't know that it will happen and I know that I cannot be doing it myself for it to work.