Flu Shot

[derekinla]

Just a friendly reminder that flu season will soon be upon us and now is the time to get vaccinated. It's simple, effective, and especially important in the elderly, people with chronic medical conditions, and healthcare workers (although anyone can receive it). It's safe and saves lives!

 

[derekinla]

Flu shots may even reduce the risk of strokes and heart attacks!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12573201&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11823662&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11032163&dopt=Abstract

 

[strmrdr]

Thanks for the very important reminder.
I have asthma and even a mild case of the flu really gets me down.
Last year I didn’t get a flu shot for the first time in a few years and about ended up in the hospital.
All the years I got one even when everyone around me was sick the worse I ever got was the sniffles for a couple days.
This year I got mine the first day they were available.

 

[winyan]

Hiya Strmdr.

I'm very asthmatic, luckily it's normalized in the past few years, but it was a rare year in the past 20 that I didn't spend at least one week in the hospital because of it.

I get the flu shot every year. I have since I went skiing in Vt. came down with the flu the first day of the trip, and saw a little old Vt. Dr. He started with one shot of adrenalin, then gave me a second, luckily my companion said, "Hey don't you think that's enough?!' (I was too busy wheezing to spare breath for talking). Luckily he did, I don't know many hearts that could survive three shots of adrenalin!

win

 

[fire&ice]

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On 11/1/2003 2:04:04 PM winyan wrote:

I get the flu shot every year. I have since I went skiing in Vt. came down with the flu the first day of the trip
win----------------

You got the flu shot this year & came down with the flu anyway? If so, I'm hearing quite a bit of this. What gives?

 

[diamondlil]

I know several people who have come down with the flu and did have the flu shot also. It is my understanding from a friend who is a nurse (who also got the shot and the flu) that the shot does not necessarily cover all strains since at the time the vaccine is actual developed, they are not positive which strains to cover. It's sort of a guessing game, and this year it seems they didn't get the formula quite right. Is this correct?

 

[magna2]

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On 1/6/2004 10:54:39 AM diamondlil wrote:


I know several people who have come down with the flu and did have the flu shot also. It is my understanding from a friend who is a nurse (who also got the shot and the flu) that the shot does not necessarily cover all strains since at the time the vaccine is actual developed, they are not positive which strains to cover. It's sort of a guessing game, and this year it seems they didn't get the formula quite right. Is this correct?
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Correct!!! The flu vaccine that is produced in any given year is a guesstimate of which strains would be prevalent that flu season. Unfortunately not all strains can be covered and they guessed wrong this year.

 

[pulp_princess]

I was hoping to get a doctor's opinion on this. I've heard from a few doctors (three, to be exact) that they don't recommend the vaccine. Just to seniors and small children. One of them showed me a chart (obtained from a medical journal that the public doesn't have access to) of various viruses that had vaccines developed. The charts showed the number of people that had the virus (polio, scarlet fever and various others) and when the vaccine was implemented. These graphs were using data over decades, and in all, the vaccine was introduced when the disease was in decline. The doctor said that the vaccine was introduced after people's immune systems were building resistances to the disease and the vaccines were given credit for the body's immune system.

Another argument arose that vaccines contain various heavy metals and other chemicals that may not have been studied for their effects in the human body over the long term. I was wondering at this point if there was more mercury, etc. in a tin of tuna.

Any doctors have any opinion on this or seen any of these charts in journals?

Another odd thing I've noticed, but I haven't had the flu shot in years and I don't remember getting the flu since I stopped getting immunizations. Out of this year, everyone that has had their flu shot, that I know of, has caught the flu. I know that there are different strains, but I just thought it was interesting. As an aside, several of those who haven't caught the flu take public transit to work, ranging from one hour to four hours daily with hacking, sniffly people. Of course, we could also be just lucky.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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Another argument arose that vaccines contain various heavy metals and other chemicals that may not have been studied for their effects in the human body over the long term. I was wondering at this point if there was more mercury, etc. in a tin of tuna.

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Canned tuna is relatively low in mercury because they can small fish that haven't had long enough life spans to accumulate mercury in their systems so YES, there is more mercury in the vaccines we all got as kids

.

We do not do flu vaccinations and my children are not vaccinated yet. I'm not sure where my stance is, but many of the vaccines worry me and some are still debately linked to autism (like the MMR vaccine) and I just couldn't imagine vaccinating my babies when they were less than 10 pounds for viruses such as Hepatatitis. Not right, IMO.

We'll be waiting on some of the vaccines until our kids are ready for school and some we'll flat out refuse. Luckily, in Washington State, we're allowed philosophical exemptions from vaccinations, so we can refuse the chicken pox vaccine, which I do not think is necessary. I want my kids' immune systems to develop on their own.

Michelle

 

[fire&ice]

Michelle - I'm not a big one on any of this either. As a baby, I got a serious staff infection from a vaccination needle.

But, the reason why I think chicken pox & measels are prudent is because getting either of these as an adult is *very* serious. I've heard also - could be a wives tale - that there is a correlation between shingles as an adult & the lack of the chicken pox vaccine.

We had no vaccine for the mumps (or chicken pox & measels (until later in life). BAck in the dark ages we actually had mumps parties - so that your child *would* come down w/ the mumps while young.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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But, the reason why I think chicken pox & measels are prudent is because getting either of these as an adult is *very* serious. I've heard also - could be a wives tale - that there is a correlation between shingles as an adult & the lack of the chicken pox vaccine.

. ----------------

Yes, I've heard about the shingles connection, too. Also mumps can cause sterilization in males, if they contract this in puberty (or something like that - I can't remember the specifics) and rubella can cause birth defects in an unborn baby if a pregnant woman catches this. So, for these reasons, I think you SHOULD vaccinate for these specific virusis IF the person hasn't contracted them on their own by say, age 13, when the child's immune system is more mature and they have more body weight to handle the vaccine.

Like, for example, if we had had a girl, we would have gotten her the MMR before she started her period and became "active," just in case! Remember the beautiful actress Gene Tierney? Her baby was serious disabled because she wasn't immune to rubella and caught it while pregnant

Oh, and I wanted to add my older son IS vaccinated for Tetanus and we'll be vaccinating our younger boy, too, since they play outside a lot.

Michelle

 

[fire&ice]

I'm not in disagreement w/ you - but just spining some things to think about.

I don't know what topical cream or new drugs they an give - but I contracted chicken pox at a young age. I didn't understand not to scratch the itch. My parents put white gloves on me. Some kids weren't that fortunate & have bad scaring.

Also, I wonder what the ratio is of children dying from the vaccine to children who die of the viruses?

I never had to make the decision about vacinate or not to vacinate. But, I do know it is a highly charged debate. Makes some sense to vaccinate later though.

All true about the complications to having the virus as an adult.

 

[derekinla]

Just to clarify. It is impossible to get the "flu" from the flu shot. The most common side effect of the flu shot will be localized soreness at the injection site. More generalized complications such as fever, malaise, and myalgias (muscle aches) may develop although quite rare. Asssuming the folks at the CDC are correct in predicting the antigenic strain (before the vaccines are made), efficacy rates for the tri-valent (3 strain) vaccine in preventing the disease are reported to be 70% to 90%. For the folks who never get the vaccine, never get sick, and are therefore opposed to vaccination, I only have to point to the following sobering statistics for the disease (from the CDC) to frame the disease in perspective:

An estimated 10% to 20% of U.S. residents get the flu each year:
An average of 114,000 people are hospitalized for flu-related complications and 36,000 Americans die each year from complications of flu.

How many people died of SARS last year? How many people die of West Nile Virus? The flu is a DEADLY disease and appropriate vaccination strategies are effective, safe, and important part of preventative healthcare practices.

 

[derekinla]

Here is a link to the CDC website on the flu: Click Here

Here is a link to the CDC website on vaccination beliefs Click Here

 

[strmrdr]

I had one and got the flu.


Didnt last year and didnt get the flu.


But last year everyone else at the office didnt get it either.


Doesnt prove anything other than public schools are breeding grounds for all sorts of nasty things.


That was the difference this year the bosses kids brought it home from school.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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On 1/26/2004 2:46:18 PM fire&ice wrote:

I'm not in disagreement w/ you - but just spining some things to think about.

I don't know what topical cream or new drugs they an give - but I contracted chicken pox at a young age. I didn't understand not to scratch the itch. My parents put white gloves on me. Some kids weren't that fortunate & have bad scaring.

Also, I wonder what the ratio is of children dying from the vaccine to children who die of the viruses?

I never had to make the decision about vacinate or not to vacinate. But, I do know it is a highly charged debate. Makes some sense to vaccinate later though.

All true about the complications to having the virus as an adult. ----------------

Thanks about informing me about the scaring problem with chicken pox. I appreciate the information and don't at all see it as debating. It's nice to hear other's advice and experience.

I'm not at all sure of the ratios of children dying from disease v. vaccination. All I know is that I wouldn't trust my children's lives to statistical analysis. I think most of it is biased in favor of whomever the numbers most credibly serve, such as the CDC.

JMO - SOME of the vaccines are just a money making business.


Michelle

 

[pulp_princess]

I hear from the doctor that the flu shot is an isolated piece of the genetic material of the virus and not the virus at all. From a different doctor, I hear that there are different metals which are also put into the body in the mixture that is the "flu shot". Where do these metals come from and where do they go? Are they by-products of the reactions to extract the genetic material or carriers of the genetic material of the virus? Do they eventually leave the system or do they accumulate?

I'm not opposed to vaccination at all, but haven't gotten any because they haven't been as accessible as before. From pre-school until the last year of university, I've been jabbed with every vaccine that was recommended and my vaccination records fold out like some people's picture files out of their wallet.

There is a lot of information out there about what this vaccine can do on television, ads, etc., but not much about what it is and what it contains on the same media.

Thank you for the links, Derek. I'll try to find some time soon to have a look around those sites. They seem quite extensive.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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Where do these metals come from and where do they go? Are they by-products of the reactions to extract the genetic material or carriers of the genetic material of the virus? Do they eventually leave the system or do they accumulate?

.----------------

Are you talking about mercury that's added and used as a preservative in vaccinations? Yes, this does accumulate in your body. If you've had a number of shots AND have Amalgam (metal) fillings you're body HAS damaging levels of mercury and the only way to rid yourself of all this accumulation, is one, remove all metal fillings, and two, chelate the built up mercury out of your system!

It's all rather alarming to hear that WE ALL ARE walking around with large quantities of toxic metals, but at least most of us are still walking! lol

Michelle

 

[glitterata]

You have to weigh the threats. If you look at that CDC website Derek posted, you'll see that it's far more dangerous not to vaccinate than it is to vaccinate. The threats from vaccines are incredibly tiny. The threats from the diseases themselves are enormous. Think of all the children who used to die from measles, become paralyzed for life from polio, etc. etc., before there were vaccines.

The CDC, by the way, isn't a business that makes money. It's the Centers for Disease Control--the government body responsible for keeping track of, and keeping us safe from, diseases.

You DO rely on statistical analysis to keep your children safe. For example, do you use child seats and seat belts in your car? I hope the answer is yes! If it is, the reason you do it is because statistical analysis tells us that seatbelts and child seats save lives. In the same way, statistical analysis tells us that vaccines save lives.

A tiny bit of mercury from a vaccine is much, much, MUCH less likely to hurt you or your children then not getting vaccinated and coming down with life- and health-threatening diseases.

The more people get vaccinated, the safer we all are. That's because if you're vaccinated, you're very unlikely to get the disease, and therefore you're very unlikely to pass it on to anyone else--like someone sick or elderly, whose immune system isn't strong enough to fight the disease if they get it. Whenever you fail to vaccinate, you endanger not just yourself and your children, but your whole community.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

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On 1/27/2004 6:58:02 PM glitterata wrote:

You have to weigh the threats. If you look at that CDC website Derek posted, you'll see that it's far more dangerous not to vaccinate than it is to vaccinate. The threats from vaccines are incredibly tiny. The threats from the diseases themselves are enormous. Think of all the children who used to die from measles, become paralyzed for life from polio, etc. etc., before there were vaccines.

The CDC, by the way, isn't a business that makes money. It's the Centers for Disease Control--the government body responsible for keeping track of, and keeping us safe from, diseases.

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We have weighed the threats from these diseases and discussed options with FOUR pediatricians. Our fears and concerns were adressed and it's been agreed that certain vaccines are worth getting and some are not. Polio for example, is irradicated in industrialized nations, so unless we travel outside the US/Canada, there is no immediate need to innoculate our little boys. The MMR on the otherhand, was the important one that all our doctors recommended, but said we could still postpone until our boys are older to avoid the risk of autism.

Also, plenty of people are vunerable even if they were given vaccines as children because many times the vaccine wears off and they never get a new injection. Most people don't get the tetanus shot every ten years as recommended and also Rubella commonly wears off. We don't see people dying left and right from these or any of the other viruses that are so called threats. PLUS, inaddition to the flu vaccine not protecting everyone from the flu, viruses such as Whooping Cough have been caught by children WHO DID get the vaccine. . .so there is no guarantee of immunity/protection for everyone in the US, regardless of how many pokes they were or WERE NOT given as babies.

Chicken pox, one of the vaccines I said we're avoiding, isn't life threatening. We all got it as kids and are alive and well and able to reminice. Personally, I think it's helpful to our immune systems to learn to battle this naturally.

AND, shots ARE a money making business! Who do you think makes up these vaccines? Pharmacutical companies. The same guys who are responsible for the billion dollar prescription drug industry. Of course they, as a business, WILL be sure to profit from vaccines just as they do from Prozac, Viagra, etc., because this is what cooporations are all about.

Michelle

 

[derekinla]

MC,

Here is some more information on the MMR and Autism: Click Here

 

[derekinla]

A new article from the New England Journal of Medicine on vaccinations and diabetes:

Article from Reuters on this: Click Here

New England Journal Abstract: Click Here