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Fish oil and Kids

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Rocksport

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Did some searching but couldn''t find anything about this, so any pointers welcome if it helps confirm what I have seen.

I will start by saying, long time lurker, some time poster but in case this is a load of rubbish I have created a new identity.

One day I may unmask who is the Fish Avenger.

Anyway I have been doing experiments with my kids, the neighbours kids and other family kids. And before we all go off to child services, there were no electricy, water or grapple devices in use anywhere.

Background, not too much, still want to remain anonymous just now in case I am reading stuff into it that isn''t there.

A while ago I remember seeing stuff in the news about fish oil and how they can help protect the heart and stuff, it also mentioned at the time how school kids work improved their concentration. Yup I thought here is the next miracle cure. Move on.

Anyway, the kids (2 boys 8 and 10) were playing up all the time, seemed to have more calls from school, grades werent'' terrible, but I knew they could do better. At home they were getting more and more hyper, not paying attention. All the stuff young boys are want to do, but just that bit more.

School wanted to get them evaluated to see if there was something that could be done. I had seen other kids on ADD and ADHD drugs and just didn''t like the idea. Then the fish oil News Story came back to me. Hmmm before giving them these drugs, lets get down to shops and get some. Also more fruit and vegetables, less fatty foods, less sugar

After a few weeks there was no change, the news said it took only a few weeks Aaaaggghh, maybe they do need something stronger. Thoughts of other kids on these drugs just made me cringe. So onto the internet and did some more searching, was I doing it wrong, was it the wrong dosage, was it a certain type. Anything.

Just google fish oil, all you get is adverts, fish oil that, fish oil this, fish oil impoves kids memory etc etc etc

One article that came up was from the Times. It mentioned that the fish oil used in trials for it''s benefits was EPA oil, seems there are two kinds of oil in fish oil EPA and DHA, this says that only EPA oil was used. It also said that they had scanned the brains and actually watched the brains grow (not there and then, but comparing scans from one month to the next)

Off I went again, this time searching on just EPA fish oil, got more back. A few interesting articles on how it works etc building blocks of brain, if you dont have it - body uses other stuff to make its own inferior oil. Lots of marketing etc.

Anyway thought lets get some EPA only oil, no DHA at all.

This stuff wasn''t exactly cheap so wanted to have something to compare it with so decided to pill 1 kid a day and use the other as a comparrison (they are always doing things together). So each morning and each evening, regular as clock work the kids got their fish oil tablets. The difference being the Eldest got the EPA only fish oil.

Then one morning 3 weeks later, I suddenly realised that for the last couple of days I have not had to be onto the eldest as much as I used to, the youngest had also quietened down, but not as much. When I say quietened down I don''t mean zombied or that, but just seemed to be thinking one step ahead, more thoughtful, more concentration, I hadn''t had to tell him to do something 2 or 3 times, he was acting after the first asking He was still my boy, but more so. Don''t get me wrong, there are still moments, remember he is still a Boy and it''s his job. But at dinner he was actually starting talks instead of being told to do things, he would just do his jobs around the house.

The youngest had also calmed down a bit, but not by much, but learning from his brother he was trying to be more thoughtful (but just missing the mark, hell he is still a boy as well and it is still his job to be so), he still took time to do things, didn''t concentrate and still didn''t listen.

So kept pilling like this for a few more weeks, then the school called, they mentioned eldest was getting on better, was not as disruptive and his work was improving (not there yet, but getting there). The next morning that was it, the youngest was getting the same as his brother. And I watched him like a hawk, to see if i could see it happen. Now I may just be imagining this, or maybe the watcher changed the watchee but I would see him start to do somthing and then just stop, you could almost see the thought of "that would be fun" cross his mind, but then he would change it. I asked him a couple of times and he said yes he thought about doing it but said that he would get in trouble so he didn''t. What!!! he thought he would get in trouble so didn''t do it. I just sat there and laughed and "just thought" to myself No way, not you, you just act.

A few weeks more and back to school, this time the youngest one is getting an improving report from the teacher, whilst the eldest is coming on in leaps and bounds.

We had also introduced more positive reinforcement at home as well as better action plans with the kids that gave a few more acceptable boundries, so maybe this was part of it but, we had done things like that in the past, the diffrernece with the fish oil was amazing. And best of all no drugs

I wentt public with this to my sister in law when she mentioned that mine had calmed down a bit (still boys, that''s the most important bit, they were still boys but better at it). She started pilling her daughter as well. Her daughter had been timid at school and scared to take part in public events, talk on stage. 2 months later she is on stage reading poetry

Next door also mentioned that my kids seem to be happier, so in on the secret she came as well. She said that she was already giving her kids fishoil, so i showed her the webpages about the Ethyl EPA only. Made a bet with her, I wil give her a spare bottle, a months supply and see what she thinks.

She said she didn''t notice a massive improvement, but some, so she is now using it regularly and has said since that there is more of an improvment now

God I soound like some sort of advert for fish oil, i am just telling you things, I have seen. Even re-reading it makes me cringe, am I seeing real diffrernces or am I just attributing things to this.

There are quiet a few families in the street now using this and all are commenting that the street seems calmer, the kids seem more relaxed, play much better. Kids look like they are having fun, where before they were just lurking for somthing to do.

So, with sly look to hubby (yes he knows what he is getting), he has now been taking it 4 times a day for the last 2 months, and I can honoustly say that his mood has improved, he has a quiet stressful job having to drive around the country all day, but even he is less stressed and says he is feeling better (he has started to exercise as well)

I''ll leave it to you to read the marketing hype etc but, this site is about little (and large) rocks but I have noticed my two gems blossom (3 including him indoors). I have seen other kids get more confident. Is this just me, or has anyone else got anything going on at home.

There are some where the parents say it isn''t working (although one kid told my eldest that she spits it out afterwards) but that may just be them, as a whole I would say that there is an improvmenet

Please let me know, and yes I am also a victim of my meddling, I am now a fish popper (or fish pooper as the youngest says)
 

Skippy123

Super_Ideal_Rock
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hmmm, interesting story. I am glad it helps the kids. My hubby takes it for a healthy heart.
9.gif
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
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Over and above the way the kids have calmed down that is one of the main selling points to hubby, Heart Health, but I have noticed him unstressing (maybe that is due to the less stress with the kids) either, way all good.
 

onedrop

Ideal_Rock
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Thanks for sharing the results of your experiment! Can''t say I am surprised though. I was given some type of fish oil or another when I was child for EVERYTHING. If we had a headache...we got a dose of the oil. If we had a stomach ache...we got a dose of the oil. And so on. And though it was the most disgusting stuff I ever took, it did seem to cure what ever was wrong with me. It''s nice to find out about more natural remedies for behavorial issues.
 

katebar

Brilliant_Rock
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Rocksport Fish Oil in Australia is widely used to treat children with ADHD and concentration issues. Here is the link to a study done by an Australian UniversityFish Oil.
Here the brand that is used for this is called Eye Q. As it also supposedly helps with visual health as well.
Just google the word as I don''t think I can post the link.
 

ljmorgan

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Out of curiosity, how many milligrams of EPA (and DHA in the version you gave to one child) do the pills contain? I am curious because fish oil pills vary so widely in their dosage, and even one brand will offer different dosages and formulas of their oil. Thanks!
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
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Jun 17, 2007
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That article from Australia is great, It is talking aobut the things I have seen, going to show that around. (just re-read this before hitting submit and "cringe" sounds like a bad sales pitch", come on others there must be other health gurus or people that hve tried this)

There is one kid in the street and his parents really are at their wits end. He keeps turning his desk over in class and have really bad tantrums, at least 1 a day (he is 8), his parents have, with Dr approval, given him fish oil. It was slower with this kid, it's been aobut 4 months now, but his mother is looking better (maybe she is a fish popper now as well), the kids tantrums have reduced, still happen but not as bad or as often. I was speaking to her the other day and she was saying to her doctor about maybe reducing his medication if this improvment continues, not now, but she sees a light at the end of the tunnel: As I say to all the mothers, don't self diagnose, your kids health is foremost, don't play with their health, I am no doctor, i have no medical training

When I first looked into it, becasue of the news story, the only real things that I could find was about use in people with depression and anxiety. The clincher was when they said they had scanned the brains and and were seeing new activity in adults, I just thought if it can do that to adults who's brains are meant to be developed how would it help the kids brains who are developing. And went for it, the thought of mine (maybe the youngest was just copying his brother) having to take these drugs scared me, just felt it in my heart that there must be something else.

And as I say to everyone, if your kid is on meds now (I don't ask if they are or not, just make that statement, it's not my business), don't take them off, let the Doctor do his job. That is my biggest fear that someone thinks they can do this withough proper supervision "because it was on the internet". NO. TALK IT OVER WITH YOUR DOCTOR, I DON'T KNOW YOU AND YOU DO NOT KNOW ME

This is the times article I read about a year ago.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/health/features/article1006477.ece



And this is right from the marketing litrature that comes with the kind I buy, I have removed the name (and used FISHOIL instead of name) I don't want to cloud a discussion on it with any marketing info. I don't own the company, have no shares in it, have no link to it in anyway. What it is saying is also being said on various Health Sites, just condensed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What makes FISHOIL unique among other omega 3 supplements?

As the name suggests, FISHOIL contains ultra-pure EPA, and no other omega 3 fatty acids such as DHA (docosahexaenoic acid). This is because clinical studies have shown that the more EPA there is compared with DHA in a supplement, the more effective the supplement will be over time. So even though DHA is one of the good guys, it lessens the benefits achieved by EPA alone. We want our capsules to have the same impact on your lives as they have on ours – and that means nothing but EPA in every capsule.



Each FISHOIL EPA capsule contains around 300 mg of ultra-pure EPA. It is the purest (and arguably the most effective) EPA fish oil supplement on the world market.



I thought fish oil was fish oil, how wrong I was! The weaker fish oil found on the high street is simply just not strong enough to do the job



FISHOIL Omega 3 oil is a powerful clinical grade omega 3 fish oil. This unique omega 3 oil product contains the purest form of ethyl EPA omega 3 fish oils in the Country.



The concentration-strength of the EPA is an amazing 90% - so for every 100mg of fish oil 90mg is the active ingredient EPA.
I will say that again! The Omega 3 fish oil is a 90% concentrate, so for every 100mg of fish oil, 90% is the active ingredient EPA. Quite simply the strongest concentrated EPA fish oil on the world market.

What else is unique about FISHOIL



We have mixed 100mg per capsule of a very strong blend of Borage oil also know as star flower oil, this contains the highest and strongest amount of GLA known in any plant, on our planet!



Why supplement with GLA ?



A body with a healthy biochemistry has the ability to produce GLA from the most essential fat linoleic acid. Linoleic acid is found most abundantly in the omega 6 family of oils, including safflower, sunflower and corn oils. While it has been estimated that a majority of Americans and Europeans consume far too many omega 6 fatty acids in proportion to the beneficial omega 3 fatty acids (by approximately 10:1). Most biochemists agree an optimal ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acids should be approximately 1:1. Despite the obvious over consumption of the omega 6 oils rich in linoleic acid, some individuals lack the ability in converting linoleic acid to the much needed GLA

What is EPA

EPA is the less tongue-twisting term used for eicosapentaenoic acid. This is a nutrient extracted from omega 3 fatty acids, the “good fats” found in oily fish such as sardines, salmon and mackerel. It is well known that modern diets, with their heavy reliance on processed and fast food, lack these important nutrients.


Essential to life and good health, omega 3, and in particular EPA, is believed to be of particular importance for eye and brain function. Extensive clinical studies over the past thirty years using omega 3 fish oil suggest that it can be used to treat successfully a wide range of illnesses including depression, M.E, bipolar disorder, Huntington’s, chronic fatigue syndrome , OCD and schizophrenia


Ultra pure EPA, the most important of the omega 3 fatty acids, is found in pharmaceutical grade omega 3 fish oil. This is the only source of oil we use to make our FISHOIL capsules. Moreover it takes 10 gallons of pharmaceutical grade omega 3 fish oil to make 1 gallon of our clinical grade FISHOIL!


What does EPA do? The science bit


Low levels of EPA are associated with a slowing of brain activity, owing to a hardening of the phospholipid layers, which slow cell signalling. This decreased communication between brain cells can lead to symptoms of depression.


However, taking EPA can reverse this harmful process by increasing the amount of phospholipids in brain-cell membranes and the membrane fluidity. This has a positive effect on neurotransmitters and enhances electrical messaging in the brain.
As a result of extensive clinical trials, EPA has been found to be beneficial for:
Lower cholesterol
depression
bipolar disorder
schizophrenia
OCD
Low moods
Heart health
Huntington ’s
Concentration
ADHD
ADD

FISHOIL and Children

Most children today are not getting anywhere near enough Omega 3 in their diet and research shows that this can lead to poor health and problems with concentration, behaviour and mood.


All children need a regular and adequate supply of EPA, Particularly for healthy brain function. FISHOIL is therefore an excellent option for children as not only will your child get all the EPA that he or she needs, they will only have to take one or two capsules a day to get it.
Most other fish oils on the market are much weaker and so your child would have to take as many as 5 or 6 capsules a day to get the same effect.

The most effective fish oil I have ever taken


EPA and depression


It is now widely accepted that certain types of depression are linked to a deficiency of long-chain fatty acids in the brain, such as EPA.
Doctors from all around the world, who have performed clinical trials using Pure EPA, found that depressed patients who received a daily dose of 1 gram of EPA for 12 weeks experienced a decrease in their symptoms, such as sadness, anxiety and persistent melancholy.

Concentration for hours on end!


In sourcing the strong brand FISHOIL, COMPANYNAME selected a world class manufacturer who conform to the strict requirements of the good manufacturing practise (GMP) and ISO 9001. The raw materials are sourced only from suppliers who can fulfil their demanding quality criteria. Environmentally friendly techniques are used at all times


To create this rich and pure source of omega 3 oil, the oil had to undergo a molecular distillation , filtration and chilling process TWICE to remove PCB’s, toxins and other contaminates to below detection level. Thus making FISHOIL one of the strongest and purest omega 3 fish oils in the world.


Quick delivery, friendly team and a great product, I am not exactly sure how EPA fish oil works but it certainly does


If you are looking for all the benefits that EPA fish oil can bring, then do not accept a weaker substitute they just don’t work!


This EPA fish oil is unique!! No other fish oil on the world market can claim to have a 90% concentrate of EPA, with the added bonus of 100 mg of Borage oil per capsule with a GLA content of 24%!


UNIQUE – POWERFUL – CLEAN –VERY EFFECTIVE

 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
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Out of curiosity, how many milligrams of EPA (and DHA in the version you gave to one child) do the pills contain? I am curious because fish oil pills vary so widely in their dosage, and even one brand will offer different dosages and formulas of their oil. Thanks!

At the beginning of the "experiment", the youngest got one 1000mg standard capsule in the morning and same again in the evening
With 180mg of EPA and 120 of DHA and vitamin E 0.74mg, so a total daily intake of 360 EPA and 240 DHA

The eldest got one 500mg EPA capsule in the morning and same again at night
With 300mg of EPA, Borage oil of 100 and vitamin E 15mg, so a total daily intake of 600 EPA only

See my previous post that shows the marketing info (with company info taken out) from the brand we use about how the EPA and DHA work etc. From how I read it (and other health sites say similar), DHA can have an effect on how EPA works, that is why I went for EPA only, no other omegas. It is confusing, so many brands, so much info.

I thought of increasing the amount of (standard) capsules taken to see if there was any benefit, but to much fish oil can thin the blood so didn''t like the thought of that, so went for a higher concentrate of the good stuff while reducinng the amount of fish oil.
 

divergrrl

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Messages
2,224
RockSport: I am pregnant, & my prenatals this time around came with dha/ara enriched supplements for brain health. Also, here in the states, they are putting those ingredients into infant formula now.

I believe you can also get the same effect from flaxseed oil instead of fish oil because I am afraid to give my kid fish oil due to the chemicals in fish (PCBs) and methylmercury. Haven''t done enough research, but am not surprised.
 

marvel

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Date: 6/25/2007 1:48:28 AM
Author: divergrrl
RockSport: I am pregnant, & my prenatals this time around came with dha/ara enriched supplements for brain health. Also, here in the states, they are putting those ingredients into infant formula now.

I believe you can also get the same effect from flaxseed oil instead of fish oil because I am afraid to give my kid fish oil due to the chemicals in fish (PCBs) and methylmercury. Haven''t done enough research, but am not surprised.
They also have Omega 3 eggs. The chickens are fed flaxseed which gives the yolks the omega 3.
 

Rocksport

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RockSport: I am pregnant, & my prenatals this time around came with dha/ara enriched supplements for brain health. Also, here in the states, they are putting those ingredients into infant formula now.

I believe you can also get the same effect from flaxseed oil instead of fish oil because I am afraid to give my kid fish oil due to the chemicals in fish (PCBs) and methylmercury. Haven''t done enough research, but am not surprised.

Hi divergrrl

No one is pregant around our way just now and even then I wouldn''t think of saying to them, I would go with the good old fashioned tried and tested lots of fresh fruit and veg, keep healthy.

As for flaxseed oil, from the literature, that is Short Chain Omega 3, where Fish Oil is Long Chain Omega 3 and that seems to be one of the important differences.

As Lindsey says, so many products, so many options. Omega 3 is the latest in marketing - slap it on your product and sell it, and no doubt they are good for you somehwere, but they don''t tell you the difference between the Short chain and Long chain. See below about EPA

Omega-3 fatty acids are polyunsaturated and can be short-chain or long-chain omega-3. ALA (alpha linolenic acid) is a short-chain fatty acid consisting of 18 carbon atoms and derived from plants. Walnuts, rapeseed oil and flaxseed oil are rich sources of ALA. The long-chain fatty acids EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid) and DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) come mainly from animals, and consist of 20 and 22 carbon atoms. These are mostly found in food from the ocean, such as oily fish.



 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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24,282
HI:

I found these articles (in peer reviewed magazines) few years ago on long chain fatty acid research--I am sure there is much more out there.....

Richardson, A., Puri, B. (2002). A randomized double-blind, placebo controlled study of the effects of supplementation with highly saturated fatty acids on ADHD-related symptoms in children with specific learning difficulties. Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacolgy & Biological Psychiatry, 26, 233-239.

Burgess, J., Stevens, L., Zhang, W., Peck, L. (2000). Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in children with attention-dececit hyperactivity disorder. Amercian Journal Clinical Nutrition, 71 (supplement) 327S-330S.

Stevens, L., Zental, S., Abate, M., Zuczek, T., Burgess, J. (1996). Omega-3 fatty acids in boys with behavior, learning, and health problems. Psychology & Behavior, 59(4-5), 915-920.

cheers--Sharon
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
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Oh no here I go again, Divergrrl

"I am afraid to give my kid fish oil due to the chemicals in fish (PCBs) and methylmercury"

That''s you need a good quality oil that has been refined to remove this stuff as much as possible.

And from the differences I have seen i the kids, I think that that small risk there compared to other poisons from cars as they go to school, water quality, possible ingestion of foods treated with pestacides makes it an acceptable one. You never know, might give them the start to get good grades, to get good qualifications, to invent the process tht cleans that stuff up.

Those other articles on ADHD and kids is great, I only searched on fish oil and kids, epa and and brain etc, never thought on looking for the actual "mechanism" and long chain / short chain (well did, but most of the articles were to technical)

Results of one of my final expiriments just walked through the door (I need to change the terminology here or will sound like some sort of mad scientist).

I have had ready access to my nephew for the last 2 months while his dad is working crazy shifts, nearly every school day. The thing is his dad treats him like his mate (sorry, prude moment, being your kids mate is great, but he also has to know that you are the parent, inapproprate humour, sarcasim from one to other and back again. He then wonders where his kid picked it up from). Anyway, sibling rivalry aside. I had mentioned EPA oil to him, but he just said nah, his diet is fine and wouldn''t listen anymore, so I just left it

Maybe it is change of environment, I believe in my home, then they follow my rules as to being nice to each other, not sarcastic, no answering back, no smart mouthing, if you have something to say then you say it, speak your mind, but always respect the other person

So maybe it is these boundries that are part of it, but I have been Fish Pilling him as well, morning and night (along with his dad).

His handwritng and other skills outisde of playing with his toys are more up to the level of my other niece who is 2 years younger, he is eight. He is a bright boy, really on the button and if it is on TV it goes right in and he can recall a similar program that talked about the other side of it, so he has a lot of knowledge but just can''t get it back out of him, when you get him in the moment, it is like a sponge soooooook, got it. It''s just getting that moment at the same time as something to say.

Anyway we are in week 8 and he has had it on a regular basis, not every day, but most days.

The routine usually, in like a whirlwind, run around shouting, throw school bag on chair, run for his toys, battle for getting homework started, battle during homework and battle to finish homework. I mean battle royale, Numerous corrections and changes, numerous comments on his report card (he gets one each day because of his behaviour, monitored with stickers, good, bad and sad etc), 3 hours this can take, he would hit his head and say he can''t do it, then he crys that he can''t play becuase it is bed time. I feel exhausted just typing that.

So at the end of week 3, he seemed brighter, homework was a battle but he was quieter coming in, still came in like a whirlwind but not as noisey and through that week we have noticed a few things, he sat down and drew pictures for everone, still at my 6 year old nieces level, but he picked up paper and pencil without being asked and drew individual pictures. Homework, still crying doing it, but not a battle (I think the crying is just habit now), School bag thrown onto chair, but when I say, hey - bag, the usual response of Hay is for horses is gone, it''s a big smile and Oh yeah.

He is still a little devil and at the end of week 8 now, but the volume has been turned down. His handwriting, I think still behind where it should be, but he is taking his time over it and just doing it (and it is getting better with his concentration), his notes and stickers have gone from usually bad comments from the teacher to one word, still gets in trouble but not as much and not for the things he used to do, without excusing it, it''s now cheeky things (i bet she gets the same from the other kids, but they aren''t being monitored), rather than disruptive behaviour)

It''s the same boy, but the volume has been turned down from 10 to 8, he is now proud to run up to me and say he has taken his fish oil today. It''s not that he takes it that makes me happy, but the fact that he runs up excited and happy to be doing something for himself.

And the qustions, he now never shuts up (but in a great way), whats this, whats that for, whats that do, he used to do that before, but it seemed almost as if he was going through the motions of that is what you do, but now he wants to know and understand, before he didn''t care what answer he gave or you gave as long as we carried out the duty of question and answer and he could go back to play.

And dinner times, instead of having to remind him of manners, he is now pointing out mine, no longer being cheeky, no longer in that sarcastic "ahh but you said", but now with a little boys seriousness that we have to remember our manners and he is so proud that he is right (wee begger)

His dad has agreed at last that the lad is better and has agreed to continue giving him the fish oil, although the wee lad is so into it now, he can''t wait for morning and night to get it, it''s almost his first words in the morning and last words at night, Fish Oil (ooooppps I''m infectious now)

Maybe it is the boundries, but behaviour is continuing at home with his "mate" dad, where before he would just go home and be the same again the next morning

Ohhh Nooo, him indoors (grumpy) has just given me an insight into my future, he saw what I was writing and walked off muttering "most kids have the crazy woman with a cat at the end of the road, kids around here will have her with a box of fish oil"
36.gif
.

I know it goes on and on, but I am so excited about it, and those studies confirming the use are giving me re-assurance that I am not the crazy (or that crazy) fish wife
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
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12
Just been re-reading some info, here it mentions Pregnancy and the need for DHA. At the bottom it also has a bit about Flaxseed Omega 3 AND the internal convertion process.




There is no doubt that Omega 3 fish oil can not only help your heart and joints, but your brain too. Most people are aware of these benefits, but aren’t sure whether the benefits of Omega 3 fish oil apply across the board for all types of Omega 3 fish oils. There are now many different brands available on the world market, with sellers aiming to capitalise on the
Omega 3 fish oil ‘boom’. This makes for such a wide range of products and so many claims that it is hard for the consumer to sift fact from fiction.
Omega 3 fish oil contains two active ingredients: EPA (Eicosapentaenoic Acid) and DHA (Docosahexaenoic Acid).

Most fish oils on the market contain both these ingredients in various quantities - the argument that has arisen concerns which of these essential nutrients you need, and which is better than the other.


The simple answer to this is that both are vital nutrients, but they are each important at different stages of life; it is becoming clear in the scientific community that they both have different functions.


DHA


DHA is now thought to constitute the ‘building blocks’ of the brain, forming about 8% of the brain by weight - this is why it is important for pregnant mothers to ensure an adequate supply throughout pregnancy.


DHA is also added to some infant milk formulas by some leading manufacturers, as an infant requires a lot of DHA in the first two years of life to support the growth of the brain.


EPA


EPA however is different; this essential nutrient is now considered by some leading doctors and professors in the UK as being the single most vital nutrient in the functioning of the brain and nerve stimulation.


This was highlighted by the release of a very high profile book by a leading psychiatric professor, who is using a very strong form of ethyl EPA to help treat patients of his who suffer from depression and schizophrenia. Moreover, the ethyl EPA that the professor is using has had the DHA removed. In the book he explains that Ethyl EPA fish oil is not as potent, and does not give the same therapeutic effects when DHA is present.


According to the professor, this is backed up by two randomised controlled trials at the University of Baylor and Sheffield, where depressed people who were given DHA only fared slightly worse than the placebo-controlled group.


Conversion


So what happens if the body becomes deficient of DHA? The professor goes on to describe that the body can convert EPA into DHA, as it is only two steps down the chain of ecosanoids. This is a process the body can do relatively easily. The body can also convert DHA into EPA, but our bodies struggle to make this conversion and it is not a very efficient process.


A good example of this would be with flaxseed oil, that is high in the omega 3 parent fatty acid ALA (alphalinoic acid); to obtain roughly 1 gram of EPA, you would have to ingest 11 grams of flaxseed oil.


Conclusion


The simple truth is that you need both these essential nutrients. The evidence is increasingly pointing towards the two being important for various stages of life. DHA when compared against EPA in treating depression is faring no better than a placebo; however the DHA is important for pregnant mothers and children from birth to two years. Beyond that some leading doctors (Mercola, Stoll, Puri) are leaning towards EPA being very beneficial for the daily functioning of the brain.
 

divergrrl

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2,224
Rocksport: WOW! I missed your response (had MIL in town) but you are so thorough, thanks!

I''ve always thought I''m a little ADD....mebbe some fish oil is what I need. LOL. Fortunately, my son seems to have taken after my dh, and can concentrate for long periods on a task without getting distracted.

Very interesting experiment you''ve conducted, there is always room for improvement in one''s diet...

Also, my mom is a psych nurse & they''ve had a lot of success in her outpatient program with treating depression with LARGE doses of Vitamin D. (of course all her patients are also on psych meds, but in conjunction with the Vit. D, Omega 3''s, and exercise, the effect is a much greater improvement than just the meds alone)

Could it be, I''m just a pill away from greatness?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
58,471
Rocksport, I work with kids with learning disabilities, so I have read about the benefits of fish oil. In fact, I believe that we do have a deficit of Omega 3''s in our diets, and I have bought them for my family. I admit that we have not all been taking them as regularly as we should. And I do feel there is a lack of clarity or evidence about the best combination of EPA to DHA. But I am committed to trying them.

To Diver I will say that I read an article in Consumer Reports which listed safe fish oil brands. Among them are the ones sold at Sam''s, Costco, and WalMart.
 

lumpkin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 24, 2005
Messages
2,491
Here's another link that lists safe fish oil supplements:

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=fishoil&sort=Company

ETA: Note, those are all US companies.

I'm just curious about the Pure EPA as opposed to EPA/DHA. Who conducted that study? Who funded it? I can only find one study so I'm not sure I'm ready to scrap my $10 brand which is listed as a best choice for one I have to order from the UK for double or more. Not to debunk, I just like to know where the information comes from before I make a major change.

Another question, Rockport, how big are the capsules? The ones I take are HUGE, and although my older son swallows pills pretty well and I would actually love for him to have the fish oil, I think he'd have a pretty hard time swallowing these. I'm guessing yours are smaller. That in iteself would be a huge plus.
 

Skippy123

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
24,300
Lumpkin thanks for the link. I am taking the Costco ones after reading this thread
41.gif
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
12
Date: 7/11/2007 10:13:27 AM
Author: lumpkin
Here''s another link that lists safe fish oil supplements:

http://www.oceansalive.org/eat.cfm?subnav=fishoil&sort=Company

ETA: Note, those are all US companies.

I''m just curious about the Pure EPA as opposed to EPA/DHA. Who conducted that study? Who funded it? I can only find one study so I''m not sure I''m ready to scrap my $10 brand which is listed as a best choice for one I have to order from the UK for double or more. Not to debunk, I just like to know where the information comes from before I make a major change.

Another question, Rockport, how big are the capsules? The ones I take are HUGE, and although my older son swallows pills pretty well and I would actually love for him to have the fish oil, I think he''d have a pretty hard time swallowing these. I''m guessing yours are smaller. That in iteself would be a huge plus.

Have a look at CANUK-Gal post above, it has a couple of trials in there as well as giving me better search criteria, there is also a listing above about the trials in Australia but they used other additives as well as just Omega 3.


HI:

I found these articles (in peer reviewed magazines) few years ago on long chain fatty acid research--I am sure there is much more out there.....


Richardson, A., Puri, B. (2002). A randomized double-blind, placebo controlled study of the effects of supplementation with highly saturated fatty acids on ADHD-related symptoms in children with specific learning difficulties. Progress in Neuro-Psychopharmacolgy & Biological Psychiatry, 26, 233-239.


Burgess, J., Stevens, L., Zhang, W., Peck, L. (2000). Long-chain polyunsaturated fatty acids in children with attention-dececit hyperactivity disorder. Amercian Journal Clinical Nutrition, 71 (supplement) 327S-330S.


Stevens, L., Zental, S., Abate, M., Zuczek, T., Burgess, J. (1996). Omega-3 fatty acids in boys with behavior, learning, and health problems. Psychology & Behavior, 59(4-5), 915-920.


cheers--Sharon


There is so much information and most of it conflicting. Some of the marketing info from the company I get mine from (I removed the company name from, I will let others post company names, since I started this I don''t want tarred with the advertisers brush) also mentions the stuff from the trials. One of the reasons for first posting this was to get a feel if others were also doing this. Had people seen similar actions.


The reason for EPA over the mixed EPA/DHA ones was the trial that said that those given the EPA alone improved dramatically.


My capsues are not huge, I know the ones you mean though, they look like torpedoes which contain probably 1000mg of fish oil of, below is the contents of the 1000mg capsules and the 500mg capsules that our family take. I have highlighted the qty of the good stuff. From the 500mg capsules we can see almost a doubling of the active stuff.


At the beginning of the "experiment", the youngest got one 1000mg standard capsule in the morning and same again in the evening
With 180mg of EPA and 120 of DHA and vitamin E 0.74mg, so a total daily intake of 360 EPA and 240 DHA
The eldest got one 500mg EPA capsule in the morning and same again at night
With 300mg of EPA, Borage oil of 100 and vitamin E 15mg, so a total daily intake of 600 EPA only

See my previous post that shows the marketing info (with company info taken out) from the brand we use about how the EPA and DHA work etc. From how I read it (and other health sites say similar), DHA can have an effect on how EPA works, that is why I went for EPA only, no other omegas. It is confusing, so many brands, so much info.


I thought of increasing the amount of (standard) capsules taken to see if there was any benefit, but to much fish oil can thin the blood so didn''t like the thought of that, so went for a higher concentrate of the good stuff while reducinng the amount of fish oil.

Now that the family have been on these for a while I am now considering if it is worth moving across to the Mixed ones myself, THOUGHTS ARE::::: Kids were in a difficult place, EPA is thought to do with Function of Brain, Initially high EPA to get functioning of what is already there tuned up and improved (it has my gems are doing better and better, and that nephew of mine is definatly coming out of the rough)

DHA is thought to be with building blocks of brain. Introduce DHA soon to start having what is laid down to start with better.

BUT HERE IS THE QUESTION
EPA is thought to be converted to down to DHA in the body as and when needed (more efficient than converting short chain omega 3 up dha)(so why take more DHA), DHA and EPA are thought to compete with each other (so why take more DHA)

This can get so confusing as to what to do. I think no matter what if this leaves anyone confused, then take some form of fish oil each day, it may be slower to work and may not be as noticeable at first but HELL IT IS A LOT BETTER THAN TAKING NOTHING

Come on there must be other Mad Fish Women (men also welcome) out there. How about a diamond twist to add to it.

Fish oil improves brain function, brain function processes visual function, improved visual function means even better enjoyment of "Sparkle Function"

So take Fish oil and Sparkle


 

Skippy123

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
24,300
Rockport do you have any recommendations on certain brands of Fish oil?
I bought some from costco but it seems like you are saying the European brands have more of a certain ingredient?
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
12
Date: 8/13/2007 10:41:32 AM
Author: Skippy123
Rockport do you have any recommendations on certain brands of Fish oil?
I bought some from costco but it seems like you are saying the European brands have more of a certain ingredient?
Hi skippy, I''ve been a bit busy and have not been checking in as I should.

You are right that some brands have more stuff in them, the same in the Europe as in USA, I don''t want to give out my brand in case it looks like a cheap publicity stunt to spam the boards. I wanted to get a discussion started.

There are lots of brands out there, see my posts above about dosages and the views on the different components, any brand that meets that criteria, for me anyway, is now a minimum standard, any brand that is EPA only is good. Costco probably only stock the EPA and DHA mixed oil, time for consumers to vote with their wallets, demand EPA only

I would say any Good, reputable, Health food shop/intenet site should stock EPA only oil
 

Rocksport

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
12
Just a follow up to this, the neighbour from the post of the 24th June has just been in for a coffee. I am so excited, for her, so will take a step back and give a short "report" style, but this is the condensed story she told me
.
Two weeks ago her wee one had his medication cut in half, they paced it over a week reducing day by day. Initially she thought she had made a mistake as he got to be rather a handful during this. The doctor said to give it time, he will be adjusting to this new dosage.

For the last week on his half dose, he has been settling better. His disruptive behaviour is coming down and he just seems more spirited.

She is hoping, along with her doc, that for 2008 he will be med free.


As for my two, and DH and nephew and niece and others and and and and and. They are all doing fine, Hubby had promotion, kids are getting better grades, Nephews only problem is his dads behaviour now. And my niece has her first boyfriend (or as she says "He is not my boyfriend, yeauch, we only hold hands"). These things might have just happened anyway, but one consistent thing is we are all fish popping.

Remember I am not a doctor, not medically trained and no expert, all I have done is give information for her to speak to her doc. If anyone is in a similar boat or knows any kids lik ethis do not under any circumstances think that because you have read this then you can just do it. YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AND I DO NOT KNOW YOU. Your health and that of any wee ones is to valuable to rely on anything someone you do not know says.

Apart from questions and a couple of pointers to other studies no one else has mentioned if they have found similar in their lives or if they are going to try it or are doing it.

So instead of keep banging on about this, I will draw it to a close unless others have anything to say on the topic. I just wanted to end on a happy note of this wee boy
 
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