First time diamond purchase

[Aywazovsky]

Hello, everybody!

I am going to buy a proposal ring for my gf. I don't have that much money, so the best i can get is about 0.4 carat. I've found a dealer, who gave me about a 20 minute lecture about diamonds and offered a gem of 0.4 carat with E color, VVS2 clarity, excellent cut, polish and symmetry. He had even sent me a photo of GIA report and told me that he would show me the inscription on the gem during purchase.
The ring itself is made of platinum and total cost is about 1840$.
The report number is correct, when checked via GIA report checker.
The main things that just don't let me relax are: GIA inscription can be (and were) faked, the GIA certificate on the photo is a little bit different from ones, I've seen online. Please have a look at the attachment. Diamond proportions are usualy pictured in the center part of three-folded paper. But on this report it's right under main characteristics.

What do you think? Does this report look legit?
How hard can it be to spot fake GIA inscription? The ones I've seen online were pretty obvious, but i've found only two examples.
Are there any other non-destructive checks?

Sorry if my questions are stupid, it's my first time.
p.s.: laws in my country do not make shops have return policy for jewelry (in case of size or whatever missmatch), so almost none of them does. There are very few sellers, who do this on their free will. And going to another seller is not an easy thing, so i take it only as last resort.

 

[SimoneDi]

Hi there! Your budget is not that small, you can still get a beautiful ring with 2k.

Alright, just to address some of your Qs - the report is not fake ;this is the summary at the back of the report) and girdle inscriptions are rarely “faked” especially when it comes to GIA certifications. You can be calm in that aspect. However, the diamond you are offered is not a well cut stone and it is one that we would not recommend purchasing. It has a very shallow crown angle (32.5) and a huge table (60). When shopping for a round diamond, we generally recommend sticking to the below proportions in order to obtain a well performing diamond:
Table: 53-58
Depth: 60-62.4
Crown Angle: 34-35 (sometimes up to 35.5 if the pavilion is close to 40.6)
Pavilion Angle: 40.6 - 40.9 (sometimes up to 41 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Additionally, uncles for a cultural reason, there is really no need for such a high color and clarity. An H color, VS-SI stone can look still very white but the color/clarity combo will allow you to obtain a larger diamond.

If you shop from one of the US vendors, how much import tax would you need to pay? Where are you located?

 

[Aywazovsky]

Hello, first of all thanks a lot for quick response!

I don't know what would be the taxes, anyway i'm flying to Cyprus this friday for proposal - so shipping is not an option now. But I'll definetely get next gem somewhere from abroad.

I am now looking for a couple other local dealers (bronnitsy.com and epldiamond.ru) and they can only offer something worse or smaller. What such proportions can cause? Will it be less shiny?

I am located in Moscow Russia and just in case you happen to know somebody here, i'd be glad to get a contact if possible

 

[bmfang]

The report looks legit. As the stone is a under a carat, this is likely to just be a diamond dossier. Would second what @SimoneDi recommended about purchasing online and paying import tax rather than buying from a local bricks and mortar jeweller.

 

[Aywazovsky]

What just really has blown my mind is the fact, that there is "Find local retailer" section on GIA site. And judging by it there are 6 in Moscow. Of which 4 are inaccessible by phone and have no website, one works only with companies, and one makes designer rings, so for that price i'll get only smaller gems because a biger part of the price is brand name and metal part design.
Seems, I have no other options.

So when you say "we would not recommend purchasing" what do you mean exactly?
Can you name the average price for such stone, so I'd realize how much i am being ripped off?

 

[SimoneDi]

What just really has blown my mind is the fact, that there is "Find local retailer" section on GIA site. And judging by it there are 6 in Moscow. Of which 4 are inaccessible by phone and have no website, one works only with companies, and one makes designer rings, so for that price i'll get only smaller gems because a biger part of the price is brand name and metal part design.
Seems, I have no other options.

So when you say "we would not recommend purchasing" what do you mean exactly?
Can you name the average price for such stone, so I'd realize how much i am being ripped off?

We mean man that it is not a good diamond because it is not well cut. A beautiful diamond will be a well cut one which this one is not. Rush purchases are rarely good. Can you postpone your proposal?
Else, provide the jeweler the above cut criteria and have him find you something within budget. You can comfortably drop down to H color and VS2-SI1 clarity.

 

[Aywazovsky]

I got your point. I've found a couple more gems for nearly the same price (300$ more for the ring).
Can you help me find the best of these option?

 

[SimoneDi]

@Aywazovsky none of them, they are pretty poorly cut stones.
Here is a nice diamond:
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3189835.htm
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ni-1rz7286-solitaire-engagement-ring-4026.htm

They can ship it today and will be with you in a couple of days.

 

[TreeScientist]

Agreed, they are all bad. Here's the angles you should stay within to ensure that the diamond will perform well. Use this as a guide:

Depth: 60-62.3%
Table: 54-58%
Crown Angle: 34.0-35.5 (35.5 only with 40.6 pavilion angle)
Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41.0 (41.0 only with 34.0 crown angle)

Enter the angles into the HCA to see if they are complementary. If the diamond has a score greater than 2, throw it out. If it's less than 2, then it's worthy of further consideration:
https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

Are you sure you can't order online? You can get a lot more for your money there. As @SimoneDi said, your budget is not that small. $2K USD can get you a nice diamond in the .4-.5 carat range with a platinum setting. Don't settle for a poorly-cut diamond.

 

[Lorelei]

Aywa, if you can post where you're looking as you're in Moscow, the PS Team can go to work and weed out the bad ones and find you some good ones hopefully, are you set on having VS clarity?

 

[TreeScientist]

Just as another example. Here's a good diamond from Blue Nile:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

Pair it with their classic solitaire in platinum:
https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...latinum_2?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample
or leaf solitaire:
https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...num_21202?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample

And it's still under $2000.

Blue Nile is pretty good at handling international shipping and customs, so I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[WinkHPD]

Sergey is in Russia, perhaps he has a friend there in Moscow who could help our OP. I do not have his direct contact, but surely someone does...

Wink

 

[Lorelei]

Just as another example. Here's a good diamond from Blue Nile:
https://www.bluenile.com/diamond-de...AMONDS&track=viewDiamondDetails&action=newTab

Pair it with their classic solitaire in platinum:
https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...latinum_2?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample
or leaf solitaire:
https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...num_21202?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample

And it's still under $2000.

Blue Nile is pretty good at handling international shipping and customs, so I wouldn't worry about that.

Very nice TreeS!

 

[Lorelei]

Sergey is in Russia, perhaps he has a friend there in Moscow who could help our OP. I do not have his direct contact, but surely someone does...

Wink

That's a great suggestion Wink, he's bound to know someone.

 

[TreeScientist]

Ah, I just noticed you're in Russia. Too bad you didn't order sooner. Blue Nile doesn't ship to Russia, but they do ship to Cyprus.

In this case, I would contact Whiteflash and see if they could have a ring ready by Wednesday. You could have it shipped to an FedEx pick-up location in Cyprus (WhiteFlash also won't ship to Russia, but they will ship to Cyprus) and pick it up when you arrive there. I think WhiteFlash has a fairly quick turn-around time on their classic 4 and 6 prong settings like @SimoneDi posted.

This would probably be the best option, as I don't think Blue Nile would be able to provide a quick enough turn-around time in this case.

 

[SimoneDi]

What @TreeScientist said!

 

[Aywazovsky]

Wow, guys, you kindest guys in the world.
I've just contacted whiteflash - they don't ship to Russia. Who is Sergey, how can i find him?

 

[TreeScientist]

Wow, guys, you kindest guys in the world.
I've just contacted whiteflash - they don't ship to Russia. Who is Sergey, how can i find him?

Yes, but they do ship to Cyprus. See my post.

Ask them if they can have it shipped to a Fed-Ex location in Cyprus.

 

[Lorelei]

Wow, guys, you kindest guys in the world.
I've just contacted whiteflash - they don't ship to Russia. Who is Sergey, how can i find him?

Sergey Sivovolenko, a well respected expert and he's bound to know someone who can help, if you contact admin here, they might have contact details for him, I'm so out of the loop but it's definitely worth a try to contact him.

 

[Aywazovsky]

Just contacted them about Cyprus. They can't do it in such a small period of time.
Too bad, I've found this forum only today.
I'll wait a bit, maybe sergey flies by and saves me)

 

[Lorelei]

I think if you ask admin Ayw, that might be the quickest way of contacting Serg, they might know how to reach him and I'm not sure when he last posted here but I can tell you this, it would be worth the trouble of trying to get hold of him.

I would say don't rush unless you absolutely have to, now you know what's involved in getting a beautiful diamond and that the cut quality is KEY ( not the shape as cut often refers to), I think you'll enjoy the process and be very proud once the diamond's sparkling on your lady's finger.

Stick around.

 

[SimoneDi]

Just contacted them about Cyprus. They can't do it in such a small period of time.
Too bad, I've found this forum only today.
I'll wait a bit, maybe sergey flies by and saves me)

Ah such a shame perhaps Sergey can save the day. What about using a “placeholder” ring like a silver ring and choosing the diamond together later?

 

[Lorelei]

Ah such a shame perhaps Sergey can save the day. What about using a “placeholder” ring like a silver ring and choosing the diamond together later?

That's absolutely an option, then armed with their new knowledge, it's something they can do together.

 

[Aywazovsky]

Contacted admin, waiting for response.
Just visited yakutian diamonds, they offered gia 1152868591, which is pretty much the same in terms of weight. Has worse characteristics, but better angles. 0.5ct at this price point were very bad. Not gia certified, but MGU ( local university). They tend to be a little bit cheaper and ofcourse have another scale of clarity and color)))
I guess, I won't be able to find anything much better here. But anyway, going to wait till tomorrow

 

[Lorelei]

Contacted admin, waiting for response.
Just visited yakutian diamonds, they offered gia 1152868591, which is pretty much the same in terms of weight. Has worse characteristics, but better angles. 0.5ct at this price point were very bad. Not gia certified, but MGU ( local university). They tend to be a little bit cheaper and ofcourse have another scale of clarity and color)))
I guess, I won't be able to find anything much better here. But anyway, going to wait till tomorrow

It'll be worth holding on for a little time. Also bear in mind if you get a well cut diamond, you can be more flexible with your colour and clarity if that appeals to you as a well cut stone is going to face up whiter than one with a lesser cut. See what admin can come up with re Sergey and we'll have a punt around too. Never fear, you'll end up with a beauty.

 

[Aywazovsky]

It'll be worth holding on for a little time. Also bear in mind if you get a well cut diamond, you can be more flexible with your colour and clarity if that appeals to you as a well cut stone is going to face up whiter than one with a lesser cut. See what admin can come up with re Sergey and we'll have a punt around too. Never fear, you'll end up with a beauty.

Thanks for support)
And what about diamong gia 1275840165.
I've uploaded it's certificate today, you told me it is bad just as other gems.
But i've just checked it in HCA tool and it has score of 1, which, i suppose is very good. Other specs also do fall in range SimoneD named.
So, what am i missing with this one?

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for support)
And what about diamong gia 1275840165.
I've uploaded it's certificate today, you told me it is bad just as other gems.
But i've just checked it in HCA tool and it has score of 1, which, i suppose is very good. Other specs also do fall in range SimoneD named.
So, what am i missing with this one?

Hi Aywa, I don't think I told you any diamond was particularly bad did I, unless I am missing my comment?

I'll go take a thorough look at this one.

Ok, I've looked. The potential issue with this one is that the crown and pavilion angles combined are a shallow combination, this can mean the diamond might look dark in some circumstances due to the shadow of the wearer's head. Yes for a ring stone you can do better with ' safer' crown and pavilion angle combo but it depends on your overall choices, this diamond might be ok depending on the overall cut precision and the rest of the numbers are good. I'd put it on the maybe list depending on what else you can find.

 

[SimoneDi]

Thanks for support)
And what about diamong gia 1275840165.
I've uploaded it's certificate today, you told me it is bad just as other gems.
But i've just checked it in HCA tool and it has score of 1, which, i suppose is very good. Other specs also do fall in range SimoneD named.
So, what am i missing with this one?

The pavilion angle on this stone is low. For a crown angle of 33, you would want a pavilion angle of about 41. And even then, the cut could be bettered because we generally prefer a crown angle between 34 and 35. Can you contact BN to see if they can ship to Cyprus?

 

[Aywazovsky]

Hi Aywa, I don't think I told you any diamond was particularly bad did I, unless I am missing my comment?

I'll go take a thorough look at this one.

Sorry, your said that they are not very well cut. It was just short to write it that way. I didn't mean to confuse anybody.

The pavilion angle on this stone is low. For a crown angle of 33, you would want a pavilion angle of about 41. And even then, the cut could be bettered because we generally prefer a crown angle between 34 and 35. Can you contact BN to see if they can ship to Cyprus?

I am already writing letters with Michelle from whiteflash. She said, that it is possible to set a diamond into a frame/cast/ring within my time range And send it to cyprus. But the choice of such items is limited.

 

[Lorelei]

If Whiteflash can manage it, that might be the way to go, you know you'll get a beautiful stone and superb setting if they can do it in time.

 

[SimoneDi]

Sorry, your said that they are not very well cut. It was just short to write it that way. I didn't mean to confuse anybody.


I am already writing letters with Michelle from whiteflash. She said, that it is possible to set a diamond into a frame/cast/ring within my time range And send it to cyprus. But the choice of such items is limited.

Whatever setting they are able to produce will be beautiful! Please try to make this happen! WF diamonds are so gorgeous and they have a very generous upgrade policy!