First time diamond buyer, how did I do?

[kdtalgo]

First off I would like to thank everyone on this forum for the wealth of information and advice that I've gained from browsing through the threads.

I've been on the hunt for an engagement ring for the past few months. I've been browsing a couple of local B&M stores here in Raleigh (Bailey's and Diamonds Direct). My girlfriend has accompanied me for the first few trips so I could get an idea of her taste - she wants a RB in a halo setting. My total budget is $5-7k. Seems that I can get RB just under a carat for that price. I understand the importance of staying just under the 1ct mark to get more bang for the buck.

Last month Diamonds Direct had a sale for 20% off all settings. The setting that she specifically liked was marked down to $1200 from $1500 so I went ahead and ordered it. I also looked at a couple of diamonds that day and was shown a RB 0.80ct G VS2 (GIA VG-EX-EX) for about $4700. I was able to get it down to about $4400 as part of the package deal. The total was about $5600 so well within my budget.

Later on I plugged in the specs to the HCA and got a score of 4.4 which seems to be pretty bad by PS standards. The cut is rated GIA "very good" which also seems to be a no-no according to many folks here. I've been bothered by my choice ever since. The diamond seemed to perform well in the store but I am not that experienced so I don't know if I am a good judge of performance. I also felt kind of pressured to make the decision that day because diamonds were flying off the shelves -- literally -- the store was packed.

I put down 20% and now the diamond is off to Tel Aviv where it will be set into the halo. I should have it by mid-June.

Diamonds Direct has a 30-day cancellation period so I'm not yet bound to the purchase. I have another couple of weeks left in that period to change my mind. DD also has a price match guarantee -- people have said that they've gotten them to price match online vendors like Blue Nile.

Here is a link to the GIA report:
http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=2156055535&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

I'd prefer to stick to the local B&M store because of 1) they have a history of good customer service and 2) they have the setting she likes at a good price.

How did I do? Am I overpaying?
Should I have not settled for a VG cut at that price?
Are there any comparable diamonds available online that I can use for the price match?
Should I go back and ask to look at more diamonds?
Am I simply overthinking it?

Please help put my mind at ease

 

[proto]

pricescope says between 3500 to 4000 for the diamond

 

[Lorelei]

Hi KD and welcome!

I am sorry I can't do as you ask and put your mind at rest with this diamond, from a look at the proportions on the report, it's what we call here a ' steep/ deep' angled diamond. Unfortunately, these stones can show light leakage which means the diamond won't sparkle as well as it could if the angles were better proportioned. In some cases, you can even get a dark ring under the table ( the largest facet on top of the stone), which is not desirable. The diamond is also on the deep side and it is facing up small for it's weight, this coupled with the definite potential for light leakage means your rock may well look small for it's size due to some of the weight hiding in the bottom as well as the angles and the thick part of the girdle, and not shooting out of the top and all over the surface as you want as sparkle.

If you could back out of this deal, that would be my advice, I am sure you can find something better even for less and I think you might realize that too. Sorry I don't have better news for you but better to find out now rather than when the deal is irrevocable.

 

[kdtalgo]

Thanks for the response!

What diamond specs (pavillion and crown angle/depth) should I be targeting when looking at diamonds in-person? What is the ideal face size for a diamond in the 0.8-0.9ct range? Any other red flags that I should be aware of?

Should I be asking for the HCA score and Idealscope when looking at diamonds in-person?

I may go back in and ask to see more diamonds, with this new knowledge. I've learned so much since I decided on this stone.

 

[Lorelei]

Thanks for the response!

What diamond specs (pavillion and crown angle/depth) should I be targeting when looking at diamonds in-person? What is the ideal face size for a diamond in the 0.8-0.9ct range? Any other red flags that I should be aware of?

Should I be asking for the HCA score and Idealscope when looking at diamonds in-person?

I may go back in and ask to see more diamonds, with this new knowledge. I've learned so much since I decided on this stone.

Here is a cheat sheet I compiled quite a few years ago now, these proportions are based on teaching and input from expert John Pollard. Now, these proportions are suggestions to get you within range of well cut stones, but they are not absolutes nor any guarantee, but they give you a place from which to work. There are also proportions outside of these ranges that can also work together. You can use this sheet to assist you or you can go straight for AGS0 cut grade if you really want to narrow the field, or GIA Excellent cut grade diamonds, but do make sure to check the proportions of those carefully as the GIA Ex can allow for some less than desirable proportion configurations to receive the Ex grade.


depth - 60 - 62%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - thin to slightly thick, thin to medium, etc (avoid very thin or thick)
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Below is a direct quote from John Pollard.

''Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35). In other words, there are some GIA Excellents that are better than others.''

Also, always check diameter to be sure stone faces up as large as it should, ex: 1 ct. 6.5mm, 1.5 cts. 7.4mm, etc.


HCA score; you can certainly run the proportions through to check to see if the stone is worth further consideration or rejection, if you find one you like that you aren't sure of, please check it out with us as it might be one of those proportion configurations that could work perfectly well but score above 2 on HCA. Just to reiterate, HCA is a rejection tool, not for selection but it is a very useful tool to have at any diamond buyer's disposal, used as intended.

Idealscope; if available, a superb supplement to human eyeballs! You can also purchase one inexpensively to keep buy you, also very useful to have for future purchases if the vendor does not have one to hand.

I hope this helps!

 

[Stive85]

Thanks for the response!

What diamond specs (pavillion and crown angle/depth) should I be targeting when looking at diamonds in-person? What is the ideal face size for a diamond in the 0.8-0.9ct range? Any other red flags that I should be aware of?

Should I be asking for the HCA score and Idealscope when looking at diamonds in-person?

I may go back in and ask to see more diamonds, with this new knowledge. I've learned so much since I decided on this stone.

Definitely return if you can.... You could do much much better and for far cheaper! Are you now bound to this vendor?

 

[Gypsy]

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.