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First Time Buyer Help - Princess Cut

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AndyBernard

Rough_Rock
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Jul 20, 2009
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Hi everyone.

Working on a tight budget (I''m a student) and I was hoping I could get some info on princess cut diamonds. I''ve done some research, but it''s a little overwhelming trying to learn all of the specifics of the cut - depth/table, angle of the..angles, all that stuff, lol. I was hoping I could get some people to look at this diamond, which is around what I''m looking for/what I can spend:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1253147.asp

I''m hoping that by getting some thoughts on this diamond, I can learn a little bit about what you''re looking at.

Like, is there a "standard" table/depth set of numbers I should be looking for? Or is it enough to get an "Ideal" cut?

I''m considering online, but also considering a local family owned store that I hear great reviews about - if I were definitely doing online, I''d just pick some out and come here, lol, but I''d like to have some of the info mobile since I might buy in person.

Really appreciate all the help.
 
Hi Andy

To be honest I am not loving this diamond, I believe you can do better. Although the numbers don't tell the whole story here are a few guidelines from expert Paul Slegers.

- Reject the ones with a very thick girdle, because of weight hiding where you do not want it.
- Limit yourself to square stones, since it is much more difficult to direct light correctly if the stone is not square (depends upon your comfort-level, of course, and it is more a matter of risk-reduction, and not of correct selection).
- Reject all with VG polish or symmetry, since none of them could be seriously called ideal. Again debatable, but it is a manner of selection.
- Reject the ones with a too big table (say 80% or more). Depending upon your comfort-level, you might want to reduce this table-size-level.

Also generally look for Princess where the table percentage is less than the depth.

If you would like some suggestions for well cut Princess we could maybe find some for you? There are various proportion configurations which can result in a lovely Princess but really images are the important thing to help select, also look at AGS0 cut grade Princess and ones graded by GIA for their superior beauty and optics from the vendors who carry in house diamonds.

For images ASET and photos are the most helpful, read more on ASET below.

http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=education-performance

If you prefer to buy in person you could buy your own ASET scope which would be a great help.

http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_zoom_item.asp?Id=23&ShowAdd=Y
 
The JA princess has a fairly large leaky area in the center which is not preferable. The WF one that SC posted looks fantastic.

One more thing...let me preface this by saying I''m just a consumer, and Paul is an expert in the industry, whose company cuts gorgeous diamonds. That said, I do not agree with excluding VG polish/symmetry (and note that Paul says it''s just a guideline, not a hard and fast rule). True, it can''t be called "ideal," but to me that''s a technicality. The naked eye usually can''t distinguish VG (and sometimes even good) from ex/ideal. I agree with the other rules...look for a L:W ratio of 1.05 or less, keep an eye on the girdle (too thin = fragile, too thick = hidden carat weight), look for a table less than the depth (although there is room for some variation here). Don''t be afraid of a deepish stone; many of the AGS ideal princesses are cut with 74-78% depth.

And finally, if you give us your budget and preferred specs on the other 3 C''s, we can look for princesses with a great cut!
 
Thanks a lot for the responses.

Basically, I''m leaning towards buying online, either BlueNile, WF, or JA, in which case I would definitely shop around within my parameters, then come here for feedback before pulling the trigger. But I''m also considering a local jewelers that I''ve been hearing a lot of good things about, and if I go there, obviously I won''t have the benefit of being able to look up more info/ask for feedback here. So, I''m looking for some simplified "rules" to help me - like the L/W below 1.05%, table < depth, a range of girdle ratings, etc.

I know many of these are not hard and fast rules of course, but I''m looking for general guidelines. This has been very helpful so far.

As for what I''m looking for, I''m working around a $2k budget, princess cut diamond, ideally I or better, and definitely want it to be eye clean. The carat isn''t a huge deal, my fiancee to be isn''t really concerned about it (she more wants the proposal, etc.). Also, we''re students and I''m moving to be with her, so she''d probably get mad if I spent too much anyway, lol. From looking around I''m hoping I could get a diamond around .7 carats, but I could be wrong about that.

Any suggestions would be very welcome - I''ll be checking out the jewelers this week and would like to have some reasonable comparisons to have with me.
 
Date: 8/5/2009 12:50:40 PM
Author: AndyBernard
Thanks a lot for the responses.

Basically, I''m leaning towards buying online, either BlueNile, WF, or JA, in which case I would definitely shop around within my parameters, then come here for feedback before pulling the trigger. But I''m also considering a local jewelers that I''ve been hearing a lot of good things about, and if I go there, obviously I won''t have the benefit of being able to look up more info/ask for feedback here. So, I''m looking for some simplified ''rules'' to help me - like the L/W below 1.05%, table < depth, a range of girdle ratings, etc.

I know many of these are not hard and fast rules of course, but I''m looking for general guidelines. This has been very helpful so far.

As for what I''m looking for, I''m working around a $2k budget, princess cut diamond, ideally I or better, and definitely want it to be eye clean. The carat isn''t a huge deal, my fiancee to be isn''t really concerned about it (she more wants the proposal, etc.). Also, we''re students and I''m moving to be with her, so she''d probably get mad if I spent too much anyway, lol. From looking around I''m hoping I could get a diamond around .7 carats, but I could be wrong about that.

Any suggestions would be very welcome - I''ll be checking out the jewelers this week and would like to have some reasonable comparisons to have with me.
Click to expand...

Personally I would stick with vendors who have in house diamonds and can supply images, BN do not offer images to their customers and as such buying a fancy shape without images is really buying blind in my opinion. Here are some vendors who do offer this info

www.goodoldgold.com

www.highperformancediamonds.com

www.niceice.com

www.briangavindiamonds.com

www.whiteflash.com

www.exceldiamonds.com

all of the above supply ASET, Idealscope and photos.

www.jamesallen.com Idealscope and photos
 
Date: 8/5/2009 12:16:14 PM
Author: jstarfireb
The JA princess has a fairly large leaky area in the center which is not preferable. The WF one that SC posted looks fantastic.

One more thing...let me preface this by saying I'm just a consumer, and Paul is an expert in the industry, whose company cuts gorgeous diamonds. That said, I do not agree with excluding VG polish/symmetry (and note that Paul says it's just a guideline, not a hard and fast rule). True, it can't be called 'ideal,' but to me that's a technicality. The naked eye usually can't distinguish VG (and sometimes even good) from ex/ideal. I agree with the other rules...look for a L:W ratio of 1.05 or less, keep an eye on the girdle (too thin = fragile, too thick = hidden carat weight), look for a table less than the depth (although there is room for some variation here). Don't be afraid of a deepish stone; many of the AGS ideal princesses are cut with 74-78% depth.

And finally, if you give us your budget and preferred specs on the other 3 C's, we can look for princesses with a great cut!
Click to expand...
This is well-stated. As a point of clarification I believe Paul's guideline of >VG is put forward as a sign of care in the cutter's approach, not naked eye issues in polish or sym: Diamonds with top craftsmanship and appeal often have EX/Ideal finish as a by-product of deliberate/careful planning and execution. Since most labs have no performance standards for this shape using that guideline can help in the big-picture search for diamonds which were carefully executed.

- You may already have understood this jstarfireb, in which case I hope you don't mind my elaboration.
 
Ya, you have to request ASET for it, then they will take the ASET image and post a link on the diamond page.
 
Date: 8/6/2009 9:48:55 AM
Author: AndyBernard
Do you have to request the ASET photos from Excel Diamonds? I'd like to see them for http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.79_Carat_I_Color_VS1_Clarity_diamond-299422.html but I don't see where to find them.
Click to expand...
In some cases yes you would need to ask them for ASET. Although depth does not always relate to spread in fancy shapes ( face up size) this diamond is too deep, I would look for another personally.
 
Okay requested the photos for these two and they''re up now, be grateful for any thoughts:

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.79_Carat_I_Color_VS1_Clarity_diamond-299422.html

and

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.82_Carat_I_Color_SI1_Clarity_diamond-362226.html
 
I''m not necessarily down between these two, just looking around trying to figure out what to look for. Is the I SI stone a good choice in its own right, or only just because it''s better than the other one? Let me pick your brain!
 
Good but not the best, just the better of the 2 here.
 
Date: 8/6/2009 4:40:51 PM
Author: AndyBernard
Okay requested the photos for these two and they're up now, be grateful for any thoughts:

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.79_Carat_I_Color_VS1_Clarity_diamond-299422.html

and

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.82_Carat_I_Color_SI1_Clarity_diamond-362226.html
Click to expand...


Just fixing the links

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.79_Carat_I_Color_VS1_Clarity_diamond-299422.html

and



http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.82_Carat_I_Color_SI1_Clarity_diamond-362226.html

These have potential, out of the two I prefer the first, it shows a small amount of leakage in the images but it might not be noticeable in person.
 
Oops, sorry about that.
 
Date: 8/6/2009 5:04:59 PM
Author: AndyBernard
Oops, sorry about that.
Click to expand...
Please don''t worry, it only takes me a second to fix the links!
 
Date: 8/6/2009 4:44:22 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Date: 8/6/2009 4:40:51 PM
Author: AndyBernard
Okay requested the photos for these two and they''re up now, be grateful for any thoughts:

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.79_Carat_I_Color_VS1_Clarity_diamond-299422.html

and

http://www.exceldiamonds.com/Loose_Princess_Cut_Diamond-144/Loose_Princess_Cut_0.82_Carat_I_Color_SI1_Clarity_diamond-362226.html
Click to expand...

I prefer the I SI1 stone.
Click to expand...

As do I. The first is a bit too deep (78 is my cutoff), and it''s too off-square as well.

The second is not the best cut out there, but it''s not at all ugly. There''s a bit of leakage at the corners of the table, but outside the table, there''s corner-to-corner light return, which is a good thing. I would probably say it''s as good or better than the one I posted from WF. It''s not as nice as the one Stone-Cold posted.

And thank you John for the clarification! That''s a good point; it''s good to appreciate the amount of planning and execution that EX/ID symmetry and polish require.
 
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