Finding your ''calling''

[Gypsy]

So if you spent a LOT of time getting a good education, landing a decent job, getting promotions, raises etc. And were unfullfilled and you set out to find your calling... what would you do if you found it. Would you just quit everything and start over? Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?

What if your 'calling' made next to no money. And to go into it would result in a 3/4 cut in salary. What would you do then?

 

[doodle]

If I even remotely knew how to answer any of that, I wouldn''t presently be unemployed with a college degree and trying to figure out what the HELL-O DOLLY! to do with myself. Basically, I''m no help whatsoever, but sounds like (if you''re speaking about you personally) we''re in the same boat, so start paddlin'', woman!

All kidding aside, I say do what you love. If you aren''t passionate about what you''re doing, you''re wasting your life. Besides, if you''ve already got the education, etc. to do the more financially advantageous job, you could always come back to it if your calling didn''t pan out so much, couldn''t you?

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:03:24 AM
Author:Gypsy

Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?

This...unless I could take the pay cut without compromising my current lifestyle or future financial goals.

 

[Cehrabehra]

I think it would depend on money. I have two careers in my own head. One would have been route A - the one I took if I needed a paying career. I would have become an architect. Route B - the one that truly is my heart''s passion... to study theoretical (astrophysics or quantum, undecided) physics with no plan to do anything other than theorize, philosophize, and write. I''ve taken route B though it''s been on hold a long time.

If you don''t need your income and Mr. Gypsy supports you changing to something that makes your heart sing - why not? If you do need your income, then I think I would treat it as a side hobby for now or think about a way you can bridge between what you do now and what you would love to do. Find a niche. You may be able to be fully fulfilled while filling a gap that makes good money too!

 

[rainwood]

I''d do what I love as a hobby on the side, and continue to evaluate my options. One reason I''d do this is that there can be a big difference between ''doing what you love'' and ''doing what you love for a living.'' I know that some of my friends found their perspectives changing once something they loved to do became a job they had to do. I''d also want to make sure that I knew I was heading toward my life''s work rather than just moving away from something I didn''t like.

And I''m not sure I''d be happy with such a big income drop. I don''t think I could ever be truly happy if I didn''t make enough money to support myself if need be. I was raised by a single mother who was always just scraping by. I prefer not to spend my adult life with the same financial insecurity. It''s great to be able to rely on a husband''s income, but things can change (job loss, illness, etc.) that could throw him out of work. What would you do then? You need to know the answer to that question before you make any big decisions.

 

[yssie]

Another for doing what you love as a hobby, and keeping the job.





People will insist that you don't need money to be happy, that the rich are actually less satisfied with their money than those with low incomes... perhaps that's true to a point, but we live in a world where money can and does buy both happiness and health - and certainly, good health results in happiness. Before taking a step like that you really, really need to have your ducks in a row... what if hubby loses his job? What if one of you gets sick? What if, what if, what if.. The other issue is that if you leave the field and one day need/want to return, it's a tough battle to get back into the workforce. Maybe I'm being too much of a cynic, but it's so much safer to look for fulfillment outside the job.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Well, as someone who got a good education, good job, propmotions and built up a professional reputation, then quit a well paid and very secure job to re-train completely, I'd have to say yes!

I saved like crazy for a couple of years, sold some investment property and paid off every debt we had including our mortgage, then went for it.

For me, quality of life is about more than material comfort. Doing something that didn't interest me anymore was ultimately stressful. I do have the potential to earn a good salary again in the future, but it will take me a long time even to get back to the level I was at before I quit.

While I will have the potential to earn a good wage again in future, it's going to be a long time before I get back even to where I was. Earning significantly less is on the cards for the foreseeable future. That's ok with me, because I have the things I need. In the end, it's a personal choice - can you live with less v can you live with a job that is making you unhappy?

Good luck.

Jen

ETA I just re-read yssie's post - my decision would likely have been different if I didn't live in a country where healthcare and high quality education is free at the point of delivery. If you have to pay for healthcare / insurance, you need to know you can afford to as a priority. I have a child, so education and health would have to come before personal fulfillment, I suppose.

 

[ksinger]

Ditto Rainwood and yssie. I would not be happy knowing I was a razor''s breadth away from ruin every day. (Although truly, most of us are there already, at least in the US where one serious illness can send a family to the poorhouse, but most of us don''t like thinking about that) Am I thrilled with the path my life has taken careerwise? Not really. Does it pay well? Yeah, decently, and allows me to do some of what I love without the pressure of having to force what I love to do to support me. So, am I willing to give up that paycheck to self-actualize? Nope. Fact is, most things adults do to make money are NOT fulfilling or all that fun. What kid says enthusiastically at 8, "Wow, I want to grow up and be an accountant!!"? And yet the world is full of accountants.

Bottom line, Maslow is still quite relevant today.

 

[PinkTower]

I think you should do what you love, but you may need to wait a while before you begin doing what you love.
We did what Mrs. Mitchell did: got our financial house and goals in order first. For example, we waited 6 years to have our first child, and nine years after that before we had our second, because private school was important to us, as we live in a poor school district.
Only after our first was in college did I go back to school and get the degree I wanted. (I had originally gone to Grad School in something else) I was in my mid 40's, and the degree took three years, so late 40's by the time I started work.
So, my advice would be to do what you love, and if you are in an excellent financial situation, do it now. But, I had to wait, and there is nothing wrong with having to hold onto your dreams for a while.
I am five years now into my dream job. There is nothing like loving what you do. But schooling so is very expensive now, rising much faster than inflation. I could not justify reeducating myself until my children's educations were provided for.

 

[perry]

Great Question Gypsy...

I do understand - only my understanding came when the career I wanted largely vanished out from under me; and I had to find something else... (cue up the song: Somewhere... out there... beneath the clear blue sky...).

Eventually, I was able to find something that I enjoyed doing and that payed the bills - after a decade (and working through the exercise in the back of What Color is my Parachute). However, the company was purchased by a mega-corporation a couple years ago and things have changed (I now feel I''m just a number which they really don''t value). Fortunately, I am working on something on the side - only it does not pay enough of my bills yet to walk away from my day job.

It is true that money does not buy happiness - but what it will buy is a lifestyle where you can more easily be happy. Currently I no longer really worry about my day to day money or even about those several thousand dollar upsets in life that happen periodically.

Given enough money, you can buy back a lot of time as you will not need a conventional job where you are trading a substantial portion of your time for the money to live. I do know people who really only work 10 - 20 hours a week, and spend a lot of family time together and a lot of time on vacation. At this point it is a goal of mine to get to this stage (it also is the only way I will ever be able to retire as my past job & health situation is such that I used up my retirement savings).

If my job were to end today: Here is what I would do.

1) Focus a lot more time into my side business - this has the real potential to financially set me free. The question is how fast can I bring the income stream up versus how fast I would run out of money.

2) Try to arrange largely home based contracting with some of my industry contacts (write/review documents - industry consulting)

3) As time (and money permits) - I''d like to spend more time in various volunteer activities.

Long term - should I become financially free here is what my goals are in life:

A) Work in R&D for some products I''d like to develop (I have several ideas that are would take several hundred thousand dollars + time in the workshop to develop). In one case I would have to "go back to school" to gain specific technical knowledge and skills; but my plans are not to spend several years going through the conventional curriculum - but to be able to pay the school sufficient $ so that instructors could quickly tutor me on the specifics and I could get what I needed in 6-9 months, a year at the most.

B) Relocate to the western South Dakota, eastern Wyoming/Montana area (a great climate for my asthma, and I like the outdoors and mountains).

C) Spend a lot of time taking trips to see things.

D) Volunteer more.

Would I take a significant pay cut in my job income to do something I had more passion for. I already asked to reduce my work schedule at work and go part time (in part to work on health issues - but also to have a better quality of life by working on things that I want to work on). Mega-Corp is not interested in part time employees in my department (except for the ones they inherited).

Gypsy.... I wish you well and hope you find what you are looking for.

Perry

 

[Haven]

I have a difficult time being happy if I''m feeling generally unfulfilled, so I''d probably do whatever it took to pursue my calling, so to speak.

I can tell you what I did, as our actions speak much louder than our words, I believe.

After two master''s degrees and one bachelor''s degree, I''m finally focusing on the career I love. I left a stint in law school because it bored me, and I left my full-time HS teaching position because I didn''t agree with the direction the new administration was taking.

IF I even get a job teaching English at a community college, which is what I believe to be my calling, I''m looking at a 25% cut in pay at best, but that''s okay. I am so much happier teaching CC, it could have been a 50% cut and I''d still do it.

I''m teaching only 9 hours a semester this year because I only have a part-time job, so I''m earning less than 25% of what I was making teaching high school. But I can tell you I am at least 17,000% happier.

However, my husband and I set up our life together knowing that we plan to put personal fulfillment above material things, so we''ve lived below our means on purpose. That makes it much easier for me to make these big changes, of course. But it was a conscious choice to buy a small house, and to save up for the cars so we wouldn''t carry loans, etc., and I''m proud that we''ve done the things we''ve done to put ourselves in the position to follow our bliss, should the urge present itself.

If my calling made next to no money, I would design a lifestyle around that as best I could to support my calling. As long as I could provide shelter, food, clothing, and medical care for myself while pursuing my calling, I''d do it.

 

[bee*]

I would be another voting for doing what you love as a hobby and keeping your paid job. I was working for a few years before I dropped it all and went back to study veterinary. I absolutely hate not having a good wage coming in while I''m in college-it worries me no end. I cannot wait to finish college and absolutely adore my future career but I''m also looking forward to getting a nice salary monthly. While doing what you love is super, I think if there is no financial stability with it, you could end up hating it.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 3/7/2010 11:25:08 AM
Author: Haven
I have a difficult time being happy if I''m feeling generally unfulfilled, so I''d probably do whatever it took to pursue my calling, so to speak.

I can tell you what I did, as our actions speak much louder than our words, I believe.

After two master''s degrees and one bachelor''s degree, I''m finally focusing on the career I love. I left a stint in law school because it bored me, and I left my full-time HS teaching position because I didn''t agree with the direction the new administration was taking.

IF I even get a job teaching English at a community college, which is what I believe to be my calling, I''m looking at a 25% cut in pay at best, but that''s okay. I am so much happier teaching CC, it could have been a 50% cut and I''d still do it.

I''m teaching only 9 hours a semester this year because I only have a part-time job, so I''m earning less than 25% of what I was making teaching high school. But I can tell you I am at least 17,000% happier.

However, my husband and I set up our life together knowing that we plan to put personal fulfillment above material things, so we''ve lived below our means on purpose. That makes it much easier for me to make these big changes, of course. But it was a conscious choice to buy a small house, and to save up for the cars so we wouldn''t carry loans, etc., and I''m proud that we''ve done the things we''ve done to put ourselves in the position to follow our bliss, should the urge present itself.

If my calling made next to no money, I would design a lifestyle around that as best I could to support my calling. As long as I could provide shelter, food, clothing, and medical care for myself while pursuing my calling, I''d do it.

Haven you know I love you, and don''t take this the wrong way, but who paid for your degrees? Were they all full-ride scholarships? Public schools? Private? Could you have done all you''ve done completely alone and with no help/support from family or husband?

Even with financial aid back in the day when a lower division credit at my state funded university was $17.55 and hour (32.00 for an upper division, and that was when I graduated 5 years LATER - and yes, I know that dates me terribly), I could not have afforded the debt level for the number of degrees or "stints" you have.

I realize it isn''t the original question, but I just can''t help thinking how so many of the replies demonstrate over and over the vast gulf between the upper middle classes and those below. I''m not saying people shouldn''t try hard to be fulfilled and do meaningful-to-them work - as you know my husband is quite idealistic working in a struggling urban school district in an extremely poor state, with all that that implies, but dang some people are just incredibly lucky to have the luxury to worry about a "calling", rather than survival.

 

[katamari]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:03:24 AM
Author:Gypsy
So if you spent a LOT of time getting a good education, landing a decent job, getting promotions, raises etc. And were unfullfilled and you set out to find your calling... what would you do if you found it. Would you just quit everything and start over? Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?


What if your ''calling'' made next to no money. And to go into it would result in a 3/4 cut in salary. What would you do then?

Money is relative, so I cannot say. I would only take a 3/4 cut in salary, though, if it still meant I could have and do what I wanted in life, and not just now but in the future. Like other posters have said, there isn''t necessarily a perfect correlation with money and happiness, but there is a very high correlation between not enough money and struggle. For me, I have to feel like I have financial security before I can enjoy any other aspect of life.

As for following your bliss, I did this and have never been happier that I decided to do it. There were sacrifices. I left a well paying professional job that I would have never had to work hard to keep and would never require me to put in any hours beyond my required 45 in order to pursue a PhD. I have been a low-paid graduate student for several years and, though I was lucky enough to be able to secure a professorship at a school I love, I will be expected to work literally around the clock and will still never earn half of what my friends who went to professional school did (though, to be fair, some of my professional friends were actually following their callings, too, and not just in it for the money). If I get into this job this fall and find I have another "calling" (which I don''t expect), I will certainly stick it out, and would not pursue something else. I see following your bliss as something people have limited opportunities to do and I feel I have spent mine.

I see people leave my program every semester who have invested 5-10 years of their life, delayed finding a partner or having children, moved cross country, amassed sizable debt, and made many other sacrifices. Some walk away for other callings, but for most, security is what they feel they want more than anything else. Often with "hobby jobs" there is little security. If you can, I would also try to pursue the hobby job on the side a bit, if you can, alongside the other job because as other posters mention, sometimes hobbies lose their appeal when they become jobs.

This is really only a question you can answer for yourself, but I hope you can find the answer!

 

[Tacori E-ring]

As someone who is following her "calling" in a profession that gets paid lower than teachers in most cases I would always tell someone to follow their dreams. That being said you need to be realistic. Take in account your DH''s salary. Does he make enough to support the two of you? Would you be willing to move to a cheaper city? Cheaper apartment? No vacations? No *gasp* bling? How important is this? I know you are desperately unhappy with your current job. Personally no amount of money is worth that. Life is short. Be happy.

 

[Indylady]

+1 to Tacori. If your family will still be financially stable if you quit this career, then yes, I would.

Also, you''re going to have the same credentials that you have no even if you quit your job. No, you wouldn''t come back to the same position if you were to change your mind, but you should still be able to come back and a position in the same line of work. So, its not like you''re closing a door entirely.

I hate to pry, but I''m so curious...what''s the new calling?
Art?
Jewelery?
Libraries?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:42:45 AM
Author: lucyandroger

Date: 3/7/2010 3:03:24 AM
Author:Gypsy

Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?

This...unless I could take the pay cut without compromising my current lifestyle or future financial goals.

Ditto.

My mom always told me when I was young that the key to happiness was to find your calling, and then figure out a way to make money doing it

I followed her advice and am very happy with my career. But it did take 11 years of higher eductation to get here. Most times it seems to me to make money at a calling it takes a loooooong time to get established, and while getting there, ya gotta make ends meet. If you can make them meet by quitting you current job, I say go for it. Life is short.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:34:05 AM
Author: yssie
Another for doing what you love as a hobby, and keeping the job.


People will insist that you don''t need money to be happy, that the rich are actually less satisfied with their money than those with low incomes... perhaps that''s true to a point, but we live in a world where money can and does buy both happiness and health - and certainly, good health results in happiness. Before taking a step like that you really, really need to have your ducks in a row... what if hubby loses his job? What if one of you gets sick? What if, what if, what if.. The other issue is that if you leave the field and one day need/want to return, it''s a tough battle to get back into the workforce. Maybe I''m being too much of a cynic, but it''s so much safer to look for fulfillment outside the job.

The actual research suggests that once you hit a basic level of income where your needs are met for food and clothing and health care, income and happiness become completely unrelated. If you make *less* than the minimum required to have those basics, that is when money and happiness correlate about 100%.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/7/2010 12:30:09 PM
Author: ksinger
I realize it isn''t the original question, but I just can''t help thinking how so many of the replies demonstrate over and over the vast gulf between the upper middle classes and those below. I''m not saying people shouldn''t try hard to be fulfilled and do meaningful-to-them work - as you know my husband is quite idealistic working in a struggling urban school district in an extremely poor state, with all that that implies, but dang some people are just incredibly lucky to have the luxury to worry about a ''calling'', rather than survival.

Amen. It is truly a *problem* of mondern society to even think about fulfillment.

But who mentioned Maslow earlier? For many of us (knock wood), basic needs for food and clothing and health and relationships are met. When that is the case, healthy humans do indeed turn to the higher order needs, like emptional/psychological/and spiritual fulfillment. But call into question one of those lower order needs, and all bets are off. It is about survival.

 

[Snicklefritz]

Gypsy, it sounds like we''re in the exact same uncomfortable spot right now. My job is wearing me down and I''m considering a serious career change that I feel very uncertain about. Unfortunately, I don''t have any answers yet myself, but I''m looking forward to everyone''s comments. Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Haven]

Date: 3/7/2010 12:30:09 PM
Author: ksinger

Date: 3/7/2010 11:25:08 AM
Author: Haven
I have a difficult time being happy if I'm feeling generally unfulfilled, so I'd probably do whatever it took to pursue my calling, so to speak.

I can tell you what I did, as our actions speak much louder than our words, I believe.

After two master's degrees and one bachelor's degree, I'm finally focusing on the career I love. I left a stint in law school because it bored me, and I left my full-time HS teaching position because I didn't agree with the direction the new administration was taking.

IF I even get a job teaching English at a community college, which is what I believe to be my calling, I'm looking at a 25% cut in pay at best, but that's okay. I am so much happier teaching CC, it could have been a 50% cut and I'd still do it.

I'm teaching only 9 hours a semester this year because I only have a part-time job, so I'm earning less than 25% of what I was making teaching high school. But I can tell you I am at least 17,000% happier.

However, my husband and I set up our life together knowing that we plan to put personal fulfillment above material things, so we've lived below our means on purpose. That makes it much easier for me to make these big changes, of course. But it was a conscious choice to buy a small house, and to save up for the cars so we wouldn't carry loans, etc., and I'm proud that we've done the things we've done to put ourselves in the position to follow our bliss, should the urge present itself.

If my calling made next to no money, I would design a lifestyle around that as best I could to support my calling. As long as I could provide shelter, food, clothing, and medical care for myself while pursuing my calling, I'd do it.

Haven you know I love you, and don't take this the wrong way, but who paid for your degrees? Were they all full-ride scholarships? Public schools? Private? Could you have done all you've done completely alone and with no help/support from family or husband?

Even with financial aid back in the day when a lower division credit at my state funded university was $17.55 and hour (32.00 for an upper division, and that was when I graduated 5 years LATER - and yes, I know that dates me terribly), I could not have afforded the debt level for the number of degrees or 'stints' you have.

I realize it isn't the original question, but I just can't help thinking how so many of the replies demonstrate over and over the vast gulf between the upper middle classes and those below. I'm not saying people shouldn't try hard to be fulfilled and do meaningful-to-them work - as you know my husband is quite idealistic working in a struggling urban school district in an extremely poor state, with all that that implies, but dang some people are just incredibly lucky to have the luxury to worry about a 'calling', rather than survival.

ksinger--I absolutely 100% agree with you. You are absolutely right. (And you, DD.)

DH and I went out for brunch shortly after I replied to this thread. We continued a discussion we've been having ever since we started seriously discussing the life we'd like to have together, and the bottom line of this ongoing conversation is always this: We are so, so lucky to lead the lives that we lead, and to have had all of the opportunities we've had in life. Just the fact that we had the time and money to go to our favorite brunch place and make a morning of it is evidence alone that we are so very lucky.

I do realize how lucky I am, and it is because of this that I plan to live the best life I can for myself, and to never take it for granted that I have the opportunity to do so. I know so many spoiled, ungrateful brats who, despite having many privileges in life, remain unhappy and unsatisfied. What a waste.

I grew up in a lower middle class family that managed to find affordable housing in a fabulous public school district, which then led to a number of unbelievable opportunities for us kids. My parents actually *cried* the day they attended my high school's open house because they couldn't believe we were going to such a nice school with so many opportunities. Both of them had big, fat elephant tears rolling down their cheeks as they walked through the halls. I remember eating baked potatoes for dinners several nights in one week because that's all we could afford, but we *never* went hungry. We always had food and clothes and a place to live.

When I was in the 7th grade my parents moved in with their best friends, who have two daughters, and we all lived together long enough for both sets of parents to save up a down payment. Now, we lived on the wrong side of the tracks in an otherwise solidly middle class suburb, so this was something that was unheard of. Kids made fun of me, and I was definitely always the "poor" kid growing up, but we were not poor. We just weren't as well off as everyone else in our community. My parents bought a very modest home after that, and managed to lead a pretty normal middle class lifestyle by the time I was a teenager. We never took family vacations like everyone else, and my parents always drove beater cars, but it was still a pretty cushy life.

My parents are the children of immigrants, they both grew up poor and attended troubled inner-city schools. My mother earned a significant scholarship to attend Northwestern University, so she did, and she lived at home and worked to help support her mother. (Her father died while she was in college.) She'd tell you that she only got the scholarship because there were only ten kids in her high school who spoke English, so she always looked great in comparison. I actually remember the day my mom paid off her last student loan, we celebrated by ordering in Chinese food and renting a bunch of VHS tapes. My father did not attend college until later in life, after they had us kids.

Anyway, my parents are a bit of the hippie persuasion, so the pursuit of contentment and fulfillment is something they always held dear. I won't pretend that growing up as the least well off family in the entire school was easy, it wasn't, but it got me into a really great public school system that opened up a world of opportunities for me.

As for my education and who paid for it all:
I paid for my undergraduate education myself. I used student loans and earned a couple small merit scholarships. I *really* wanted to attend Boston College but it was so expensive, and the didn't offer me the kind of scholarships I needed to survive. SO, I went to the University of Illinois, worked as a resident adviser for free room and board for two years, delivered sandwiches for Jimmy Johns for three years, worked at Blockbuster all four years, and as an usher at the mainstage theatre.

Law school didn't cost me anything, I had a scholarship plus a stipend.

My teacher prep master's cost me 20K, which I took out in loans and lived at home and worked a bunch while attending school.

My former employer paid for my entire MEd in reading and literacy, including books and fees, so that didn't cost me anything, either.

My undergraduate degree cost me just around 20K after all four years. Tuition was not bad, and free room and board for two years saved me over 20K alone. I paid my rent my senior year out of my paychecks, and the rest I took out in loans.

I realize I am very privileged to be able to a) attend school without worrying about supporting my family, and b) move back home when I decided to go back to grad school so I could save money. I teach adults every single day who are back in community college to seek a higher quality of life for themselves and for their families. I am humbled by the struggles they have had, by the hard work they have done to get themselves here, and by their determination to create more fulfilling lives for themselves. When I hear their stories I am always struck by the sheer dumb luck I have experienced in my own life, and I remain grateful for that, and I remind myself of it whenever I start to feel down about anything in my life. The fact that I am even pursuing a career that brings me so much joy is almost too overwhelming to believe, but I am, and I plan on making the most of it.

I often remember my grandparents and the stories they told me about how difficult it was for them when they came to this country. My grandfather never earned more than $14,000 a year, he worked for Downtown Records as a store manager. My grandmother worked as a secretary in Root Photography. They both came from very rich families in Berlin, lost it all in the war, and maintained that they found happiness when they came here to America. I hope that by living my life this way I am doing honor to their memories, and making them proud.

 

[Haven]

Oh my gosh, that post turned into a novel. I''m so sorry, I''m having a problem with concision today.

I should have just written:

I know. I am so lucky and privileged and for that I am very grateful.

 

[ksinger]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:32:49 PM
Author: dreamer_d

Date: 3/7/2010 12:30:09 PM
Author: ksinger
I realize it isn''t the original question, but I just can''t help thinking how so many of the replies demonstrate over and over the vast gulf between the upper middle classes and those below. I''m not saying people shouldn''t try hard to be fulfilled and do meaningful-to-them work - as you know my husband is quite idealistic working in a struggling urban school district in an extremely poor state, with all that that implies, but dang some people are just incredibly lucky to have the luxury to worry about a ''calling'', rather than survival.

Amen. It is truly a *problem* of mondern society to even think about fulfillment.

But who mentioned Maslow earlier? For many of us (knock wood), basic needs for food and clothing and health and relationships are met. When that is the case, healthy humans do indeed turn to the higher order needs, like emptional/psychological/and spiritual fulfillment. But call into question one of those lower order needs, and all bets are off. It is about survival.

Who mentioned Maslow? That was me.

Yeah, I''ve been discussing this topic on and off this morning with my husband. I asked him if we just lacked vision or something. We decided it was just a function of our families and upbringing and our age and location perhaps. He got zero help from his parents for college (aside from the fact that he had zero idea what he wanted to do and how to go about getting what he didn''t know he wanted at the time...LOL) not because they weren''t education buffs, but because they just couldn''t afford to help him. His dad was THE first person in his family to even have a degree, so they were quite new to the ins and outs of higher ed, and were very much of the generation that did NOT amass any debt (we have Great Depression era parents). You WORKED your way through, you didn''t take out LOANS. He''d try college, run out of money, work...retail, oilfield, gun biz, mechanic, but finally got done with a bachelors at 33-ish.

I was raised by a single mom, and while I felt secure as a child, as I got older I had that instinctive and rather acute understanding that for US, money did not grow on trees. My mom was insistent I go to college, but in her family at least at that time, there were no college grads. She had a couple of years of college, but never finished. My dad''s family on the other hand is highly educated, with profs and engineers abounding, but since I wasn''t around that, I may have missed the "you really need to go to graduate school" bus. I really didn''t know what I wanted to do with my life either back then. Hell, how can you...you''ve never actually DONE anything! Anyway, by the time I finished college, I was kinda feeling a bit guilty about having taken so long already, and thought I''d better start paying my way, and not leaning on my mom for even the little I was. (I did get the loans and grants - she didn''t make enough to do more than pay my health insurance until I was out, feed me on the weekends, and buy me new socks for Christmas).

Now that I''m older, I wish I''d done a few things differently, but who doesn''t. I do know that I wouldn''t want a masters or even another bachelors in the things that make you Money, and regardless, that at today''s prices, I could never afford to get the bill paid off before I died.

I consider myself a well-educated person - one who has not stopped learning simply because I have not done a masters or more, - and I know plenty of those: get the degrees and then never read another book or learned another blinkin'' thing. But there truly is a huge gulf between attitudes in the poor states'' and the rich ones. I SEE it so clearly these days, and I didn''t really understand it 20 or even 10 years ago. I didn''t really understand just HOW poor my state is or how dreadfully backwards educationally in general. (I work in an educated field, with educated people, in a nice environment, so you could say I''ve been sheltered.) Part of it comes from a new awareness given to me by a husband who is working with the children of the VERY poor. It''s been an eye-opener. Survival IS their driving need, you know? And I hear a new heart-breaking story daily it seems. So my focus is just....otherwise I guess.

And I really am a bit sorry for the thread-jack. I''m just astonished at the attitudes of some of our posters. And I DO NOT mean that snarkily. I really truly never thought this way. While I wanted to do something I enjoyed, I never thought of work as a "calling", nor did I have the money to keep changing my mind. Work was.....work. I truly envy those who seem to live and breath what they do to make money, but my "real life" has always been away from my work, you know?

 

[ksinger]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:16:32 PM
Author: Haven
Oh my gosh, that post turned into a novel. I''m so sorry, I''m having a problem with concision today.

I should have just written:

I know. I am so lucky and privileged and for that I am very grateful.

Knowing the thoughfulness and quality of your posts and of YOU, over the years, I expected that would be your response. But I did enjoy the novel.

We all are the beneficiaries of the efforts and love of others. I know I am....

 

[FrekeChild]

In my mind, you just have to weight happiness vs. money. What is more important? Is there a balance you can achieve to get the best of both (i.e. not being completely miserable at work, yet still bringing in enough money, and at the same time pursuing your calling enough to make you happy)?

 

[Allison D.]

Date: 3/7/2010 3:03:24 AM
Author:Gypsy
So if you spent a LOT of time getting a good education, landing a decent job, getting promotions, raises etc. And were unfullfilled and you set out to find your calling... what would you do if you found it. Would you just quit everything and start over? Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?

What if your 'calling' made next to no money. And to go into it would result in a 3/4 cut in salary. What would you do then?

If I couldn't reasonably support myself with the income from the 'calling', I'd leave it as a hobby OR pursue it on a part-time basis to stoke my love for it.

It's great to think that one's hobbies would make a great full-time job, but that seldom happens. For example, I love photography, and I've been doing courtesy shoots for friends of mine for pregnancy, wedding, and infancy shoots. I SO enjoy them that I often fantasize about doing it for a business. However, I recognize that there a ton of tedious tasks in having that kind of business full-time that wouldn't appeal to me, and I also realize that it becomes 'less fun' when it turns into an obligation. I'd rather do it on the side for enjoyment (and if I wanted, for a bit of pocket change) and retain my sheer LOVE of it.

For me, there's a difference between being unfulfilled in a job and being flat-out miserable/unhappy. If you're flat out unhappy and miserable, then it's time to find another path that's viable....which may not be your calling.

Honestly, I don't look to my job for fulfillment. For me, a job is just that.....a job. It's what I do to fund the rest of my life to pursue as hobbies the things that DO fulfill me. Sure, I can find enjoyment in my job, but it's not the thing by which I measure myself or my happiness.

 

[Haven]

Thank you for being so kind, ksinger.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 3/8/2010 12:04:10 PM
Author: Allison D.

Date: 3/7/2010 3:03:24 AM
Author:Gypsy
So if you spent a LOT of time getting a good education, landing a decent job, getting promotions, raises etc. And were unfullfilled and you set out to find your calling... what would you do if you found it. Would you just quit everything and start over? Start doing whatever it is on the side as a hobby and keep your well paying job?

What if your ''calling'' made next to no money. And to go into it would result in a 3/4 cut in salary. What would you do then?

If I couldn''t reasonably support myself with the income from the ''calling'', I''d leave it as a hobby OR pursue it on a part-time basis to stoke my love for it.

It''s great to think that one''s hobbies would make a great full-time job, but that seldom happens. For example, I love photography, and I''ve been doing courtesy shoots for friends of mine for pregnancy, wedding, and infancy shoots. I SO enjoy them that I often fantasize about doing it for a business. However, I recognize that there a ton of tedious tasks in having that kind of business full-time that wouldn''t appeal to me.

I''d rather do it on the side for enjoyment (and if I wanted, for a bit of pocket change) and maintain my enthusiasm for it.

Ditto. Money isn''t everything but it truly does make life easier.

I find when callings turn into a job, it loses its luster a bit. Jobs are work. Work sucks. Now, I''m not in a profession I hate...in fact, it''s a great job and I''m good at it. I was so excited when I started...traveling all over the and staying in nice hotels on someone else''s dime? Fun! Now, 13 years later, it is definitely NOT fun. But I learn to do my job well, separate my emotions and what a workplace *should* be like and just do what I gotta do and move on. I pay the bills and have lots of time to focus on what I love to do.

I like to write. If I had to do it as a job with editors, deadlines, politics, etc, I doubt I''d enjoy it as much. I''ll never make a real living as a writer because I don''t have the discipline (and luck) to really do it. But it gives me great joy to do it just for my own pleasure.

Again, I DO like my real job. I would consider I career change if it was making every fiber of my being miserable. But I''d look long and hard first to see if it''s really the job...or me.

 

[Matata]

Gypsy...you can do both depending on where you are now and where you ultimately want to be. My love was wildlife rehabilitation and for 8 years that''s how I earned my living after giving up a good position with health benefits & job security. I earned peanuts as a rehabber, had to beg for donations to keep the center running, schmooze with veterinarians for pro bono vet care, and I was shat & vomited upon by all manner of feather & furred creatures. I.loved.every.second. Then I started to get old and looked around at those dedicated rehabbers who had spent their entire lives doing the work to the sacrifice of all else. One colleague became ill with cancer, had no health care, lost her apartment, and actually lived in the rehab center until she died, on a cot outside of the owl room. Dose of reality. I decided to put my masters to work and went back to a job in the real world. But I did it out of fear of being destitute and not having options when I really grew old or became seriously ill. I retired this past June with a great pension and can afford health insurance. And, there''s a rehab facility 45 minutes from me where volunteers are always needed. You can have your cake, with icing, and eat it too. You just have to plan ahead.

 

[Regular Guy]

I don''t have too much to say about this topic...but I feel it''s an important one, and I''m interested in what others have to say.

I believe a similar thread came across maybe 2 years ago, but I never had a chance to review it. Does anyone else remember it, and can help me find it?

Thanks (and carry on)...