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Finding the perfect Cut Marquise

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Slykat12, Feb 25, 2005.

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  1. Slykat12
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Slykat12 » Feb 25, 2005
    Hi there, I love Pricescope!!! However, I am still in search of the puurrfect Marquise. Why oh why is it nearly impossible to find one?

    I am desiring a D or E, .7-1.1 in size, VS2 or better clarity, Length to width 1.70-2.00, girdle thin-thk, Depth,table, culet in line with ags, faint/slt fluor ok, under 6k? Should I give up? I know it is out there somewhere. Any advice where to find it? [​IMG]
     
    


    


  2. IrishEyes
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by IrishEyes » Feb 25, 2005
    It sounds like you are too tied to the numbers? If those are the guidlines you are using, alright. But don''t expect to find that *exact* kind of stone without some searching. The clarity grade will also really effect the price ( the color grade too). A D or E is " colorless" and therefore a little more rare than say, a G or H. Face up, you may not be able to tell the difference. With the clarity, I''m starting to learn that one should open themselves more to the possibility of an SI1 or so. It reduces the price, and many times you can''t even spot the inclusions with the naked eye. Being open to change on these two factors alone will help you find a beautiful stone in your price range. [​IMG]

    Don''t forget to use your eyes, I hope you find what you''re looking for - everyone deserves a beautiful sparkly![​IMG]
     
  3. valeria101
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by valeria101 » Feb 25, 2005
    Wait a second, what does AGS have to do with a marq ? [​IMG]

    The "Precision Search" interface at WF lets you select all those details. Many (if not all) those diamonds appear in the Pricescope database as well (and are available through other sellers, that is).

    One piece seems compliant with everything:

    Report: GIA
    Shape: Marquise
    Carat: 1.01
    Color: D
    Clarity: VS2
    Depth: 62.9
    Table: 60
    Girdle: M-STK F
    Polish: Good
    Symmetry: Good
    Culet: None
    Fluorescence: No
    Measurements: 5.25-10.12X3.30
    Length/Width: 0.52

    Allowing a hair less depth, there are more options... And an inquiry might produce something better fit as well. I don't think all diamonds available at some point are listed.

    A regular PS search (that doesn't allow to select L/W) turns out about 100 listings. The respective 6k seem in line with 0.9-1.1 cts. The same specs around 0.7 cts come up around 4k. There doesn't seem to be any shortage of options [​IMG]


    Among which... this one seems quite temptiing: close to 1 carat but quite close in price [​IMG]

    Carat weight: 0.90
    Color: E
    Clarity: VS1
    Depth %: 59.2
    Table %: 57
    Symmetry: Good
    Polish: Very Good
    Girdle: M-TK
    Culet: N
    Fluorescence: N
    Measurements: 4.98-10.62-2.95

    Any thoughts ? [​IMG]
     
  4. Slykat12
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Slykat12 » Feb 28, 2005
    Thankyou very much for your responses but there is a shortage of options as very few diamonds about 3 at present on pricescope have the proper depth and girdle and length to width ratio. I would not be writing if they were there many.
    Thanks again to u 2 Val that first one is a posibility[​IMG]
     
    


    


  5. Colored Gemstone Nut
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Colored Gemstone Nut » Feb 28, 2005
    SkyKat:

    Here''s some stuff I have compilated on marquise diamonds:

    Marquise Diamonds

    Overview:

    Here''s a general overview of this particular cut...

    Finding the best cut marquises can be a little more difficult than searching for a round. Some of the same basic principles apply in finding a beautiful stone. When searching out a marquise, you not only have to find the best crown/pavilion relationships but you also have the length/width ratio to consider as well. The magic lies in the relationship between the crown/pavilion angles and that is much more important than the table/total depth relationship which seems to be emphasized more often.


    The shape & overall brilliancy are important aspects in finding a nice “make“. The length to width ratios vary in marquise diamonds and the proportions will as well. One true method of finding a shape that appeals to your eyes is “looking” at many different stones.


    Some Things to Look out For:


    "Bow-ties"


    Bowties are not necessarily a bad characteristic on marquise cut stones, but how glaringly obvious or the dark presence which is often a phenomenon in this cut can make it look flat or dull in the center.."


    A Bow-Tie" look is formed and found right around the culet area in fancies that are cut with 6 main pavilion facets and result in a ''dark'' look as you view the stone face-up.


    Really deep stones, with shallow crowns can be flat and lifeless. When the marquise is cut shallow, it makes the stone appear watery in the center, but it also helps to eliminate the “bowtie“ affect.


    When a skilled cutter is cutting a marquise a balancing act is presented in that to completely cut a “Bow-Tie” out you end up with a flat looking lifeless stones, and if you leave “Bow-Ties” in with the black line readily noticeable you have a stone worth far less. If the cutter cuts the pavilion shallow to remove it the stone''s "sparkle" looks flat.
    The deeper the pavilion is cut the more prevalent the bow tie appears. Ideally, the bowtie should be minimal without shallowing the pavilion.

    The trick is in the proper combination of table, crown height and pavilion depth. Even if a marquise is cut "perfectly" it will still have a bowtie.When a skilled cutter executes the right cutting combinations, bow-tie''s are not seen and you get a great looking marquise.


    Girdle Area:


    Very thin or extremely thin near the "points" is a no - no. On fancy shape diamonds, if the report says thin, you need to find out where the thin section is located. Thin girdles around the head of marquise shapes might lead to chipping and fracturing.


    Very thick and extremely thick also require some scrutiny on fancy shapes and can affect overall size (too thick would be a stone cut with extra weight in the girdle).


    Shopping by the Numbers:


    A good general rule of thumb in searching for any diamond, particularly a fancy-cut stone is to not solely rely on searching out a stone solely based on the numbers. Two marquise stones which generate the same numbers can have dramatic differences in light return and visual performance.
    With this said, one route to take in initially weeding out stones by evaluating the numbers is as follows:

    A good reference can be found for fancy shapes at Dave Atlas’s website www.gemappraisers.com listed by clicking on the “AGA DIY Cut Grading” link and selecting marquise.


    After initially looking at these charts, my advice is to get a sarin or megaScope reports on marquises that "look" good by the parameters set forth in these charts, which also have a solid grading certificate from one of the reputable labs like AGS, GIA, or HRD..etc.Get a good general idea of what you are looking for as far as color and clarity. Getting a vendor to supply you with this information might be a daunting task at first, but there are plenty of vendors who have access to this information and you should insist on being supplied with it in picking out possible stones.


    The next step is to arrange to ''see'' these diamonds and determine how the numbers stack up to your eye. This will be the most important task in picking out your stone. Consumers have many different taste which vary from person to person.


    The following chart was posted by Barry of Super-B-Cert in which he outlines guidelines in ensuring some of the most brilliant marquise stones:


    Length to Width ratio: at least 1.8/1 (2:1 is optimal).
    Table Range: 57% to 68%
    Depth: 62% " 75%
    Crown height:11% " 15.6%
    Girdles: Medium to slightly thick
    Be cautious with extremely thin to very thin girdles
    as this may exacerbate chipping and fracturing.

    Finding Length to Width Ratio: You would take the measured length of the stone in millimeters and width of the stone in millimeters, dividing the length by the width and that will give you the length to width ratio.


    The following outline concerning ( length in mm and width in mm) for a marquise is described and directly quoted from RockDoc Bill Lieberum who is a leading edge appraiser and can be contacted at consumersgemlab.com.


    “The measurements ( length in mm and width in mm) for a marquise is going to vary based on four basic factors.


    1. Length to width ratio. There are long thin shaped marquises as well as short "stubby" one. The cutter fashions the stone based on retention of weight of the rough diamond crystal, and the removal of inclusions within it.


    2. The crown height. There are steep crowns and shallow crowns and those that are "just right". The height or shallowness of the crown will have an effect on the length and width of the stone.


    3. Girdle Thickness - The thickness of the girdle ( edge of the stone) also "adds weight" to the stone, and would "subtract" from its length to width ratio.


    4. Pavilion Depth - This is an important area. 2/3''rds of the weight of a diamond is usually located in its belly. So the deeper the pavilion depth is the small the face up outline will appear. The cutter can fashion a deep stone that looks smaller face up which depending on HOW DEEP its cut, can detract from its appearance or he can cut a flat thin stone where the face up appearance looks larger, but usually this causes the stone to have an over brilliant, flat and dull appearance. Cutting too deep will make the "bowtie" look more predominant.”


    Key points to Remember:
    Symmetry grades in Fancies is not as important or critical as it is in rounds.

    On fancy cuts the numbers ( proportions ) are not dependably predictable relevant to its quality of appearance and light return. For instance there are "dead stones" with great numbers, and great looking stones which fall outside the "suggested" parameters. There is no reliable consistency on what the numbers should be, rather stones which fall in certain parameters will most likely produce a more appealing diamond.


    Fancy shapes depend greatly on the pleasing nature of their outline shape. A marquise can be pointy or fat until near the points. This makes a difference in how the marquise cut looks to your eye. There are certain aspects of cutting and artistry involved beyond length, width, depth and percentages.


    Marquise cut diamonds are cheaper than rounds which are in higher demand and you can save 20% + on a marquise diamond which falls in the same weight range for the pricing of typical rounds. You can get more for your money, buying a marquise stone.


    It is a good idea in getting the stone examined by a qualified appraiser who knows the nuances involved with cut grading a fancy.
    Hope This Helps...

    With this being said there are vendor''s that can source you better marquise cuts to your liking after further discussing your spec''s. What is your main criteria?

     
  6. Slykat12
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Slykat12 » Mar 1, 2005
    Thankyou! [​IMG] I think I read that too! In the earlier posts. Ok can you tell I am obsessive hahaha It is intersting to note that I found 3 different sources for table and depth the strictest being an allowable depth of only 59-61.
    Shopping on the net does not allow you to view many stones in person it only allows you to see many numbers. Perhaps I should give up the net search and as you all seem to say go in person to view the beauties.
     
  7. blue hawaii
    Rough_Rock

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    by blue hawaii » Mar 1, 2005
    Aloha to all,[​IMG]

    I am also looking for a almost perfect marquise stone through the internet and feel the same way that skylat feels. I live in Hawaii and have limited resources and searching through the internet is very scary.

    Vendors on island have a limited stock on hand..........especially a marquise cut due to low demand. Friends advice ...go to SAMS Club. They do have marquise diamonds already mounted, however, I would like to buy a loose stone and choose my own setting, therfore, any suggestion will be welcomed on how to obtain a marquise stone that POPS as John Rouix states. My budget is 10K and would like a stone as perfect as I can get for the bucks.

    Mahalo[​IMG]
     
  8. Colored Gemstone Nut
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Colored Gemstone Nut » Mar 1, 2005
    Blue Hawaii:

    Please check out one of the vendors I have listed. They are very trustworthy and have access to many beautiful stones. Whiteflash & GoodoldGold are particular favorites of mine.

    Here is a picture of a nice marquise stone from WF posted awhile back...[​IMG]

    wfmarqexample1.JPG
     
  9. ForteKitty
    Ideal_Rock

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    by ForteKitty » Mar 1, 2005
    dang... that''s a nice looking marquise.
     
  10. Colored Gemstone Nut
    Ideal_Rock
    Trade

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    by Colored Gemstone Nut » Mar 1, 2005
    Blue Hawaii:

    You could always call WF and discuss your price point compared to the quality you want with Brian Gavin (The Cutter).

    If you want the best cut in the given price range for the biggest stone you have many options. There are a whole gammit of differences which attribute to a top notch cut in these fancy shape diamonds. Who better to discuss it with than the cutter himself?[​IMG]
     
    


    


  11. blue hawaii
    Rough_Rock

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    by blue hawaii » Mar 1, 2005
    Aloha Josh,[​IMG]

    Thank you very much for your post on a marquise diamond. The infomation will be helpful in my quest for an almost perfect one. Wish me luck.

    Again thank you for taking time out to write and even include the beautiful pictures of the marquise diamonds. The M diamond is a very beautiful one at that.[​IMG]

    Mahalo [$$)]
     
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