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Finding a Ruby For this Particular Mount

RubyGent

Rough_Rock
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Aug 16, 2016
Messages
15
Hi all,

I was referred here by a very helpful person from another forum.

I am trying to find the perfect engagement ring for my girlfriend and i've been having one heck of a time with finding the right one! Part of it is a bit easy because i know the mount we want, but the hard part is finding the right ruby.

I found the mount that i want on ebay, but it is a size 6 when i really need a size 9.5. I've went to some custom jewlery makers and they want to charge me $1500 to make it from scratch when this sells for $330 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Oval-Cut-5x...837582?hash=item3d22fa5a8e:g:5GkAAOSwInxXMTg0).

It looks like if i was able to get that resized somehow i would need a 5 x 7 mm ruby. However, from looking at Ruby's in person i realize how difficult it is to work in the world of gemstones because i've seen milky pinkish ruby to clear see through bright red ruby's. I've realized that the pictures displayed on websites can be quite different when viewing them in person.

Does anyone have any help? Is it possible to find a setting like this with a bigger size ring? If i were to find it, how can i know about the type of ruby i need? THe person who recommended that i come here suggested i look at ajsgem?

The other thing i need to consider is my girlfriend really likes the idea of having the wedding band be a part of the ring. That is, like the wedding band sets you see where the band curves around the ring and is made to look like one piece of jewelry. If i wanted that with a ring like this, would i have the band made separately then?

Any help or suggestions would be highly appreciated.
 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 19, 2004
Messages
20,549
HI:

Welcome. Stock mounts tend to be sized 6-6.5 n so no surprise that setting you like is a standard size.

What is your budget?

cheers--Sharon
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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4,117
Hi, a few things. The quality of the little diamonds (and they will be very little) is very average. The chances that a little diamond will fall out from everyday wear is reasonably high, the ring is cast made and the prongs are tiny because the diamonds are tiny. If your fiancé to be has a size 9.5 finger, then this petite little ring will be totally lost. The hand models in the pictures are typical tiny wee lasses with tiny wee fingers. However, the Chinese eBay sellers will make a ring to the size you want, though they will charge you more because it's more gold. I have purchased a ring mount myself through eBay from a Chinese seller and had it made to my sizing. Then to set a ruby, after you've found it, will cost you another $300 at the jewellers and not all of them will even want to set your stone into your ring. They like to set their stone into their ring - better profit that way (and it's their livelihood so fair enough). Then having curved wedding rings made to suit this style engagement band - expensive. It will have to be hand done most likely and that's going to turn an otherwise $300 standard round gold wedding band into a $600 non standard wedding band. All these "extras" start adding up pretty fast. Hope this info is helpful.
 

Bron357

Ideal_Rock
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4,117
I'm just adding a photo for sizing. My finger is a 7.5 so smaller than your fiancé to be. The gem on my finger is 7mm X 5mm so you get an idea of the size you are talking. Cheers. image_1032.jpg
 

DDOC

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Jul 24, 2016
Messages
91
Please don't be offended by this Rubygent.
Asking a local person trying to earn a reasonable wage to custom make a quality piece of jewellery that will likely be double the weight of the Ebay one, with better diamonds for anything even close to that made in a factory in China is unrealistic.
The person in China works for $2 a day, I doubt you would run a business for that sort of wage.
On top of that your local business pays rent, and utilities at local market rates, not third world costs.
They have to have insurance and warranty, unlike the OS guys.
And this is an ENGAGEMENT ring. Its meant to last a life time, the ring pictured for $330 is unlikely to last 5 years if it was lucky.
It had 64 diamonds totalling 0.28 cts, this means they are 0.90 to 1.00 mm in size.
And when it comes to Rubies a natural unheated Burmese that is 7 x 5 is around 1.00 to 1.30 cts (depending on cut) and can be US$10,000 per carat. On the other hand there are plenty of glass filled "natural" rubies on Ebay for $50, but they won't last either.
Ask a few local jewellers for quotes, look at their other work, consider what you are wanting it for.
Check here for quality Rubies. http://www.ajsgem.com/
 

deskjockey

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
May 10, 2013
Messages
544
Buying the mount/ring first actually can make things harder, IMO.

First of all, the ring you linked to looks very cheap, it's low weight and probably not well constructed. Expensive isn't always better, but in this case, you get what you pay for and I doubt that ring would last the way you'd want an engagement ring to last. Second, when you buy a setting first, you get locked into a certain sized stone (and colored stones can have varying depths, so not all 7x5 ovals will necessarily fit a standard setting). With rubies in particular, it's REALLY hard to find a nice one, and depending on your price range and tastes you may find several that are perfect but won't fit the setting, while then having to spend a REALLY long time looking for one that will fit that may not tick the other boxes (for the color you like, etc).

So IMO, the place to start is with the price range. How much can you reasonably afford to spend overall? How much for the stone itself vs. the setting?

THEN, find an example of the ideal color (for you! it doesn't necessarily have to be market ideal, perhaps you or she likes a more purplish undertone, or perhaps pure flame red is your wheelhouse. Whatever it is, find a good example). Do you care about treatments or origin?

From there I imagine the fine folks here will be able to find you something that works and is the right value (balancing quality with your price range and requirements).

Ruby is a challenge - it's expensive, there's a lot of heavily treated crap out there, and the good stuff is hard to find.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I would very much NOT buy that ring from eBay. The quality is sub par. Along with that you are sizing up too much. St best it would be out of round, at worst (which is most likely the case because of the quality) all the little diamonds will come popping out.

I've got some pretty strait forward questions that if we can get to the bottom of, we can certainly fix help :)

What is your budget?
Does it have to be a ruby, or just red.
What kind of treatment does she find acceptable to the center stone?
Is she flexible on stone shape?
Is she flexible on setting style?
Does it need to be rose gold? Rubies aren't typically set in rose gold.
 

Nsmike

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 17, 2016
Messages
89
To expand on Niel's question what shade of red? There are red sapphires that have a bit too much orange or purple to qualify as rubies.
Does having a pinkish tinge bother her?
Many rubies aren't very clear with the bright clear stones commanding a premium. If the shade of the stone doesn't have to be, pigeon blood red and clear, we might be able to find enough savings in a stone to pay for an upgraded semi mount.
 

RubyGent

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
15
Niel|1471457268|4066958 said:
I would very much NOT buy that ring from eBay. The quality is sub par. Along with that you are sizing up too much. St best it would be out of round, at worst (which is most likely the case because of the quality) all the little diamonds will come popping out.

I've got some pretty strait forward questions that if we can get to the bottom of, we can certainly fix help :)

What is your budget?
Does it have to be a ruby, or just red.
What kind of treatment does she find acceptable to the center stone?
Is she flexible on stone shape?
Is she flexible on setting style?
Does it need to be rose gold? Rubies aren't typically set in rose gold.
Thanks so much for all your replies. Especially Bron357 for the picture so that i can see what this size will sort of look like in comparison.

I certainly don't want to demean someone's livelihood. I just also do not want to be taken advantage of. When i showed someone who works with primarily diamonds, they told me that setting was probably a generic lords of gem rings or some other mass seller. Of course i want to get something that will last and be of quality, especially for an engagement ring, but i also want to stick within my budget.

I think maybe the easiest way to do this might be to start with these questions!

1.) Yes, it does have to be a ruby. Her mother was proposed to in a ruby and she's always been dreaming of a ruby engagement ring. Of course she's the sweetest person in the world and wouldn't mind; but i do think it's important that it is a ruby. There are a few other reasons as well since i'm from India and ruby's are quite notoriously used in jewlery here, we were thinking it would be the perfect gemstone for us.

2.) I'm not sure she quite understands all this. In fact, as of 3 weeks ago, i'm not quite sure i understood all of this. From talking to jewlers and them showing me ruby's. I've seen pink milkish ruby's that i've come to learn are very low quality, and crystal clear red ruby's that are worth upwards of $10,000. One jeweler was able to show me a very nice 0.5 ct ruby that was roughly $1,000 which was red and seemed rather nice. Not fuzzy in the middle with fillings and such. I think she actually prefers the more pinkish looking tone, but she didn't quite understand that means that it is not as quite of a good ruby. One jeweler told me that with a ruby, size doesn't matter, but it's about the color and lack of treatments to it (fracture filled is what she kept referencing).

3.) The budget is approximately $3,000. I'm okay with going a little over by a couple hundred but prefer not to go closer to $4k.

4.) She likes antique vintage looking rings. It doesn't have to be a certain shape. I can post some more ring types if that would help?

5.) She would actually prefer yellow gold as it makes ruby's stand out quite a bit more compared to rose gold. She was just really in love with this setting and it happened to be in rose gold. THough at the time she was not thinking about how she wanted a ring and band to go together.

Our ideal situation would be if there were ruby rings/band combo that we can buy like there are for pre-made diamond ones, but i'm not getting much luck with that. Not sure if i am looking in the wrong stores or what in Chicago. =/

I apologize if i'm using the wrong language to describe anything or not including any information that i should be. Just ask, and i'd be happy to answer anything!
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
18,853
No what you said all sounds perfect.

I think what you're asking for is doable, but it's a matter of finding it.

While I was waiting for you to respond I feel like I found a few options. Let me see.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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18,853
Pearlmans is a reputable vendor who sells both stones and mountings so you can do a "one stop shop", sells a brand called "Beverly k" which is distinctly vintage and theyll usually give you a price scope referral discount if you pay it without a financing plan. I think it's about 15-20% off settings.

First choice would be this

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=7791
 

RubyGent

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2016
Messages
15
Niel|1471478333|4067105 said:
Pearlmans is a reputable vendor who sells both stones and mountings so you can do a "one stop shop", sells a brand called "Beverly k" which is distinctly vintage and theyll usually give you a price scope referral discount if you pay it without a financing plan. I think it's about 15-20% off settings.

First choice would be this

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=7791
thanks so much! So that is a nice looking ruby to me! I like it. It's always a bit hard to tell from pictures but that does look nice.

Would i then try to look under the Beverly K collection to see if there are any mounts that work well with it?
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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RubyGent|1471479798|4067121 said:
Niel|1471478333|4067105 said:
Pearlmans is a reputable vendor who sells both stones and mountings so you can do a "one stop shop", sells a brand called "Beverly k" which is distinctly vintage and theyll usually give you a price scope referral discount if you pay it without a financing plan. I think it's about 15-20% off settings.

First choice would be this

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/gemstones/?sku=7791
thanks so much! So that is a nice looking ruby to me! I like it. It's always a bit hard to tell from pictures but that does look nice.

Would i then try to look under the Beverly K collection to see if there are any mounts that work well with it?
If you ask him he can get you more photos. This vendor is in SW lower Michigan so if you really needed to you could see it in person.

You said she had other settings she liked cab you provide photos? I'll see if I can't find a bev k that matches.
 

Nsmike

Rough_Rock
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Messages
89

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nsmike|1471483615|4067162 said:
You might want to look at this shop https://www.etsy.com/shop/IvyandRoseVintage?ref=pr_faveshops They specialize in vintage inspired settings and are located in Chicago. They will customize any of their design and will make a matching wedding band.
This red sapphire, would be called a ruby by 95% of jewelers, it just misses the color definition of ruby http://www.precisiongem.com/gemstackpage/gems.php?product/page/455/Gem+1790+-+Sapphire...
Ivy and rose is the new name of my diamond zone. Fine quality, but not on par with Bevk or other designer settings. Just keep that on mind.
 

Nsmike

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
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Niel|1471483951|4067172 said:
Nsmike|1471483615|4067162 said:
You might want to look at this shop https://www.etsy.com/shop/IvyandRoseVintage?ref=pr_faveshops They specialize in vintage inspired settings and are located in Chicago. They will customize any of their design and will make a matching wedding band.
This red sapphire, would be called a ruby by 95% of jewelers, it just misses the color definition of ruby http://www.precisiongem.com/gemstackpage/gems.php?product/page/455/Gem+1790+-+Sapphire....
Ivy and rose is the new name of my diamond zone. Fine quality, but not on par with Bevk or other designer settings. Just keep that on mind.
I absolutely understand that, I would say they are more semi-custom than custom, looking closely, I can see how they make their price point. When you are working towards a set budget, it's a matter of compromise, with rubies I would hedge towards a bit bigger percentage of the budget in the stone.
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Messages
991
You are in good hands with Niel :)

If no one has said this yet - I'd suggest making sure that whatever stone you buy comes with lab report from somplace well known for testing colored stones - like AGL. There's a lot of dodgy business with rubys, as other have mentioned. If a stone doesnt yet have a lab report, ask about making the sale contingant on a report verifing what the seller is claiming.

Niel found a very nice heat-only rstone, but take note of its size. The price seems very reasonable for what it is. If you really want something bugger (like toward 7x5 territory), something will have to give (color, treatment, less so on clarity since most ruby is already included).

To throw out some points of references...

Heres a slighly more included heat-only that still looks to have decent hue (slightly darker); 5.7m round; $950
http://gemfix.com/gems/ruby-547-round-mixed-cut-1-06-cts

I've oggled this one for a while.Its a bit more included, but I have an admitted problem with slightly sleepy stones. 6x5.8 cushion, $1995
http://gemfix.com/gems/ruby-571-cushion-modified-portuguese-cut-1-55cts
(note the depth, to)

If you want to go the berylium diffusion route, prices drop down a notch from heat-only. This might be reasonable, 6.3x5.9 cushion, $711
http://www.multicolour.com/detail/?/details/ruby/rb10374ab/&930512007
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
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Another thought - intergem is in chicago in 2 weeks.. Any chance that would be a good show to survey the lay of the ruby land? (Not sure what the vendor scene is there these days)
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Nsmike|1471485142|4067182 said:
Niel|1471483951|4067172 said:
Nsmike|1471483615|4067162 said:
You might want to look at this shop https://www.etsy.com/shop/IvyandRoseVintage?ref=pr_faveshops They specialize in vintage inspired settings and are located in Chicago. They will customize any of their design and will make a matching wedding band.
This red sapphire, would be called a ruby by 95% of jewelers, it just misses the color definition of ruby http://www.precisiongem.com/gemstackpage/gems.php?product/page/455/Gem+1790+-+Sapphire......
Ivy and rose is the new name of my diamond zone. Fine quality, but not on par with Bevk or other designer settings. Just keep that on mind.
I absolutely understand that, I would say they are more semi-custom than custom, looking closely, I can see how they make their price point. When you are working towards a set budget, it's a matter of compromise, with rubies I would hedge towards a bit bigger percentage of the budget in the stone.
I can see what you're saying and I have used this vendor to make me a peice or too and the quality was fine for my needs. However, I might say, because it's an engagement ring I would think long and hard before taking away too much from the budget. Especially if she wants a setting with details. The other thing is ruby get so expensive so quickly. A 5.2 vs a 5.5 mm stone can be the difference of hundreds or more. Is the minor increase in size worth sacrificing detailing on an e ring? Opinions differ but I'd probably say no, myself
 

lovedogs

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Ok, I potentially found a few from litnon (reputable vendor). I've asked the owner for additional images in the past and he's always willing to help and provide them. They aren't all round, but just wanted to give you some potential ideas.



http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=10328
http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=10961
http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=9938 I'd want to see more pics of this one, since it looks like the cut might not be great, but worth asking just because the color is nice.
http://www.litnon.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=10689 this one is a pear shape (not everyone loves them, although I think they are gorgeous), and is pricier, but wanted to include it anyway.
 

Nsmike

Rough_Rock
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I think that this is a reasonably good stone http://www.gemsny.com/loose-ruby/1.13-Carat-Round-Ruby-R20131RD/
Gems NY has a very nice gem finder app on their site.
The red sapphire that I posted earlier does meet the GIA definition a ruby. The GIA's definition is corundum where the primary color component is red. I found this one because the OP indicated that his fiance liked more pink hued stones.
 

chroman

Brilliant_Rock
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991
I meant to include this, but apparently the decongestents got the best of me last night.

If you are ok with something that leans a little pink (its all about personal preferences, not how "good" or "bad" a stone is), how about something like this; 5.8 cushion, $1495
http://gemfix.com/gems/ruby-583-cushion-modified-mixed-cut-1-15cts

Sacrificing a little on hue is one way to get a bigger stone for your dollar, though I totally understand wanting to get that perfect ruby red!

Now that we're diverging from a stock 7x5 setting, what are your feelings about good size ranges?
 

RubyGent

Rough_Rock
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Aug 16, 2016
Messages
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wow, this got a lot of attention last night.

i'm at work so will need to read the comments during lunch, but i wanted to post some ideas she had sent me.

this site sells chatham's, which she said she is okay with, but i'd much rather have a ruby i think.

anyway, i wanted to post these few rings because this is the type of style and design we were going for. We love that this place has the matching wedding bands too!

http://www.ourcustomweddingrings.co...round-ruby-engagement-ring-with-diamond-halo-

http://www.ourcustomweddingrings.co...entwined--ruby-engagement-ring-with-diamonds-

http://www.ourcustomweddingrings.co...round-ruby-engagement-ring-with-diamond-halo-

here is one with a diamond that is one she wore and liked with a matching band/set

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/1057636/IMG-20160817-WA0009.jpg

I'm looking forward to reading the comments in a bit. It seems like lots of folks are picking out ruby's. Would this be the way to start? First pick out the stone? Would i buy it first and have it and then try to find a mount that matches or works?
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Yes, you should definitely pick the ruby first and then find a setting that will fit (or have one custom made). It is 100% harder to find a mount first and then try to find a ruby to fit in it.
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Stone first than mount. It is much harder to go the route of setting first, then stone because you will be severely limiting yourself.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you got the stone above with that setting in 18k yellow gold (assuming the price is the same) should put you at 3500. Now last I checked they still have a discount o inserting if you pay upfront, so probably put you at 3350 ish.

Now let me see what stuller has to offer.
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Ive got a wildcard here, what do you think she would think of something like this

dfgdfgfg.png
 

Niel

Super_Ideal_Rock
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18,853
less wildcard settings from stuller

doublehalo.png

_1338.png

twist1.png

twist2.png
 
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