Feedback please on oval diamond

[dan_c]

Hi,

I’m looking to purchase one of the oval diamonds I listed below for an engagement ring. I’m targeting an oval with color in the E-D range, clarity in the S1-VS1 range, and carat size roughly between.80 and 1. I’m trying to avoid any diamond that appears to have a bowtie. Also, my budget for the diamond is up to $7,000.

I appreciate any feedback on my choices because I’m a first time buyer. If it matters this is the setting I’m planning to purchase with the diamond. https://www.jamesallen.com/engageme...ite-pave-engagement-ring-flush-fit-item-56265

Thanks in advance.



https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-2335577
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-796409
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.81-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-1976796

 

[tyty333]

These would be considered "crushed ice" ovals...there is no discernible faceting pattern and very little symmetry to the eye. You will mostly get little
white flashes of light mostly seen up close and not so much fire or bigger flashes of light. Is this what you are looking for? Since you are new to
diamonds, I will tell you that these would not be the choice of most Pricescopers that are used to viewing stones. You want to have a stone that has
good light return which all depends on the facet pattern. You want to look for well defined, clear, crisp facets that mirror on/off as the stone turns.

I will post a few stones that have faceting patterns that we usually look for in ovals. Now by bow-tie we are talking about a dark area that goes through
the center of the stone that never lights up well. I do not consider larger facets through the center of the stone that light up to be bow-ties. These bigger
facets provide larger flashes of light that can be see across the room and possibly fire.

JA has several nice ovals in your range...look at the mm size of the stone and not the carat weight to see how big it really is.
There are so many in your price range that I dont want to list them out individually. Here is the link to all of them. Some at each end of
your budget. You can look at these and pick some that you find appealing then we can narrow it down from there or you can try to
pick some out on your own having a little more info.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...86732,3058194,3158712,3213736,2818141,3176585

*I did not look at many of the GIA reports since there were so many stones...and there are other vendors to check but JA seem to have a good selection
in your price range.

 

[drk14]

@dan_c - Of the three you listed, the last one (0.81ct) has the best light return, but I would not recommend it, because it has very square shoulders (and therefore looks more like a cushion cut than an oval cut). I also note that all three ovals that you listed have a "four-main" facet pattern (with the pavilion main facets forming an "X" that can be seen through the diamond table) -- is this intentional (i.e., do you have a preference for this style), or just a side-effect cause by your attempts to avoid a bowtie? As @tyty333 alluded to, you may have been overzealous in your attempt to eliminate bowties: most well-cut ovals have some pavilion facets that reflect dark when the stone is held at certain angles, but these reflections will be able to also flash bright, turning on and off as the diamond moves around -- this is considered a feature, not a bug (i.e., just because you see something that may look like a bowtie in a face-up still image does not mean that the diamond is afflicted with Ugly Bowtie Syndrome).

Also, you might want to play with the shape selector tool on David Atlas's website to see if you have any preferences with regards to L/W ratio or what he calls the "bulge" factor (or you could leave it to us to make these decisions, keeping in mind that some of us may have different tastes). To echo another point brought up by @tyty333 , consider the minimum (and maximum) linear dimensions (in mm) that you would like for the length and width of the oval, as this is more important than the carat weight.

Let us know your thoughts, and we will try to assist you further.

 

[dan_c]

Hi @tyty333 and @drk14

Thank you both for your quick and detailed responses. I definitely got caught up in trying to find ovals without bowties so that is how I ended up selecting "crushed ice" ovals. But now I have a better understanding of facet patterns. I took a look at the list of ovals posted by @tyty333 above and narrowed it down to these three, focusing on ovals that were a bit longer in size. Could I please get your feedback on these? Thanks again.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...Shape=round&DiamondID=3174295,3092504,2096224

 

[drk14]

@dan_c -- The only good news is that there's no bowtie issue in any of these three, but unfortunately all of them have crushed ice to either side of the belly region. The only light return I see at the tips is caused by glare from the crown facets. We like to look for ovals that have evidence of crisp scintillation from larger virtual facets distributed as evenly as possible throughout the diamond (not just in the belly).

As @tyty333 mentioned, the pool of candidates is large for your specs and budget (261 diamonds at JA alone), so now that we have a better idea of what you're looking for, we will hopefully be able to find you something. From your selections, I would assume you will be happy with L>7.7mm, W>5.5mm, and a L/W ratio in the range 1.33-1.45. Let us know if this is not accurate.

Also, assuming we can find ovals with good light return, do you prefer to maximize the size (e.g., spread) at a cost close to your top budget ($7k), or do you prefer to minimize cost by looking for sizes close to your minimum expectations for spread (e.g., 7.7x5.5mm)?

 

[drk14]

Here's a few potentially promising ones that I picked out from the available JA selection for your specs after restricting the search to 1.1ct+ and Polish=Ex:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.20-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-3195956
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.23-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-2882082
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.20-carat-d-color-si1-clarity-sku-3134009

 

[drk14]

Using a different search strategy, these are all lower carat weight and < $5k, but still meet your stated specs:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.90-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3116462
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.86-carat-d-color-vs2-clarity-sku-1855163
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.91-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3116464
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.92-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3200408

All of the above have decent scintillation pattern, with larger virtual facets active throughout the diamond. The first one (0.90ct-E-VS2) especially has very good sparkle.

Search restrictions: 0.85-0.95ct only, VS only, Pol=Ex.

 

[dan_c]

Thanks @drk14

I like these two that you found because they fit what I'm looking for:
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.90-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3116462
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.92-carat-e-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3200408

Also, I found these two. What do you think?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.00-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3195951
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.00-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-2620666

 

[drk14]

Of the two that you found, the first one is good, but the second one isn't.

If you want more assistance looking for additional options, it would help if you could be more specific about your priorities. For example, what drew you to the two that you picked, over the other ones that had been suggested? What are your answers to the questions I had posed in Post #5 above?

From your selections, I would assume you will be happy with L>7.7mm, W>5.5mm, and a L/W ratio in the range 1.33-1.45. Let us know if this is not accurate.

Also, assuming we can find ovals with good light return, do you prefer to maximize the size (e.g., spread) at a cost close to your top budget ($7k), or do you prefer to minimize cost by looking for sizes close to your minimum expectations for spread (e.g., 7.7x5.5mm)?

You should have a lot of options (200-300 ovals, of which expect at least ~20 to have good light performance). Because there are so many diamonds to look through, we'll need additional input from you to help narrow down the selection. If you're happy with the choices that have been proposed so far, looks like you already have at least three possibilities that you would be happy with. If you prefer something different than what's been suggested to date, you'll need to help by pointing us in the right direction.

 

[dan_c]

@drk14
In addition to good light return and no bowtie, my priorities are color in the E-D range, clarity in the S1-VS1 range, and a budget around $5,500 (I misspoke in my original post when I said $7K). I'm also filtering by excellent polish. To answer your questions above, yes I would be happy with L>7.7mm, W>5.5mm, and a L/W ratio in the range 1.33-1.45. And I would prefer to maximize the size (e.g., spread) at a cost close to the top of my budget.

I'm also being mindful of the table % (57-63) and depth % (57-65), but I wouldn't say these are priorities.

This one that you posted above I think looks great, but ideally I would like for it to be larger (L>7.7mm, W>5.5mm). I'm spending this weekend looking for more on JA and will post what I find here if you don't mind leaving more feedback. Appreciate all the insight you have provided so far.

 

[drk14]

In the range 1.02ct+, this was the only one that spoke to me:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.02-carat-e-color-si1-clarity-sku-3046206

Did you specify whether you care about SI1 stones being eye-clean?

 

[drk14]

At 1.01ct VS2+, this is the only one I would consider:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.01-carat-e-color-vs2-clarity-sku-3201801

 

[drk14]

At 1.00ct VS2+, these two are good:

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.00-carat-d-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-2882010

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/1.00-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3195951

Of all of the ones I've looked at so far, I think the first one of these two (the 1.00ct-D-VVS2) is the best one I've seen that meets all of your criteria. It has very chunky flashes throughout the diamond, it is quite spready (7.79 x 5.81 mm) for a 1-ct oval with great light return, it is eye clean, and you can't beat a D color. It also hits your budget almost right on the nose. If I were you, I would put this one on hold along with your 2nd and 3rd choice, and request ASETs as well as a gemologist's evaluation. I believe this particular stone is local (in NYC), so they should be able to call it in for gemological inspection.

 

[dan_c]

Thanks, @drk14. I received the ASET images for diamonds 3201801 and 3195951 and posted them below. Regarding 2882010, JA required that I purchase the diamond first in order to receive an ASET image because the diamond is overseas and would need to be sent to the states. Would you mind providing your thoughts on these two ASET images? It seems the ASET image for 3195951 is better than 3201801. Thanks.

3195951


3201801

 

[drk14]

It seems the ASET image for 3195951 is better than 3201801. Thanks.

Why do you think the first is better? I think that as far as the ASETs go, these two are a wash, but I do have a slight preference for the 3195951 stone over the 3201801 stone based on the videos. Based on video alone, though, I still like 2882010 better than either of these two, and I would strongly encourage you to consider this oval. I recommend that you discuss with your JA rep the following course of action: purchase 2882010, but have it evaluated side-by-side with 3195951 and 3201801 by their gemologist before proceeding with mounting into a setting. If 2882010 is not the best performer, then you can return it and select one of the other two.

 

[dan_c]

@drk14
I was considering taking that approach with diamond 2882010 until my girlfriend and I recently discussed reducing the budget for the diamond to $3,500 and applying the difference to other wedding related expenses. Searching by the new budget and my other criteria (E-D color, VS2-Vs1 clarity, and a L/W ratio in the range 1.33-1.45), I found this diamond. https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.70-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3296367
I thought it was worth considering so I requested the ASET image, which is here:

What are your overall thoughts on the diamond?

Also, I'm reconsidering diamond SKU:3116462, which you had previously shared with me. The diamond would be a bit over my new budget but I think it is worth considering. Here is the ASET image if you have any comments to share.




Thanks for your help.

 

[LLJsmom]

Would you consider an antique pear? I don't think you would need to worry about a bowtie and this should be white enough. Maybe?? The faceting on this one is just beautiful.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Loose-Di....92ct Antique Pear Diamond GIA F VVS 13-L.jpg

 

[dan_c]

@LLJsmom - Thanks for the suggestion but I'm set on purchasing an oval diamond.

 

[drk14]

The one you found (3296367) does have some large bright facets at the tips (as seen in the ASET), however, the video reveals that those facets are "dead". They don't flash on and off, so they don't produce scintillation.

The SKU:3116462 stone has a slightly less attractive ASET, but video reveals that its facets (especially at the tip) have more life (i.e., more scintillation), so it's a better choice than 3296367, if you can afford it.

I did not have time to do an exhaustive search, but I did browse through some JA options in your new budget and found this one (which I feel is better than either of the other two):

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/oval-cut/0.71-carat-d-color-vs1-clarity-sku-877770

Unfortunately, I am a bit limited on time these days, so I don't know if I will be able to do any additional diamond searches for you guys at this point. There are others on PS who can help, though.

Good luck!