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Feather near surface of diamond - help me choose

willpianist

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
3
I am currently looking at two diamonds and I like the first one better. I seem to be getting a good deal here however I am a bit lost.

The first stone with 1.09 carat, G colour, SI2 and triple ex (GIA no. 5216691319) the one I like a lot. However upon reading websites regarding feather near the surface may affect the long term durability of the diamond and I am a bit concerned. Can you guys have a look at the GIA report - clarity chart (right side one) to see if the feather at the perimeter will cause any concern?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pag...&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=5216691319

Alternatively I am also looking at this 1.01 carat, D colour, SI2, 2 Ex 1 Very good stone (GIA no. 2227534211). Would you recommend this stone over the first diamond, consider that they sell for similar price?

http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?rep...ryptedString=2A37E6BF636FB9824E497A543CB9F052

Thank you guys!
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Every feather is on the surface. If it's not on surface it's not plotted as feathers on GIA reports or called a feather for grading purpose where there's no plotting diagram for example dossier reports.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

willpianist

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
3
Thank you. So does it mean that I can go ahead and buy diamond no.1 and no need to worry about durability issue? The diamond looks very good to me and eye clean even it is SI2 grade.
 

RockBrat

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
116
The feather is probably okay unless you whack it just in the right spot. You might be able to put a prong over it to help protect it but sometimes this can put too much pressure on the feather. You'll really need to get a better evaluation of it. I don't worry about feathers the way others do, I have had stones with feathers and they've never been an issue. However, I've never had an SI2 grade stone with a feather but the main reason for that clarity grade is the wisps. Have you seen it in person? The plot of the wisps only shows the direction of them, not how many there are. So even though the plot looks clean, the diamond will have a lot more going on than what's shown on the plot.
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
I had a look at the clarity plot. The grade setting feather isn't on the girdle. So I wouldn't worry too much about a plot that looks like that. (mind you I can't comment on specific stones).

However I'm surprised someone hasn't come and disapproved that stone yet.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,236
Like gr8leo I can't comment on any particular diamond- but I can tell you that discussion of feathers gets distorted- and will cause consumers to take their eye off the correct target.
In a round SI2 diamond the likelihood or a feather- even a grade setting feather- to be a durability concern in minuscule- pretty much never.
Given that SI2 diamonds are a great deal, they can be very interesting to purchase- but the main consideration is how the stone looks, as opposed to trying to rate imperfections on a scale.
Sometimes a feather can be the very best type of imperfection.
I've seen stones where the plot made a feather look horrible- yet in person, it was very hard to find the feather- even with a 10 power loupe. Such a stone can be visually identical to a flawless.
Conversely, I've seen feathers ( or other imperfections) that plotted looking totally innocuous, yet in person the imperfection was not only easy to spot, it was impossible to miss, completely spoiling a stone.
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,221
gr8leo87|1464346532|4036907 said:
Every feather is on the surface. If it's not on surface it's not plotted as feathers on GIA reports or called a feather for grading purpose where there's no plotting diagram for example dossier reports.
This is a much covered topic here on PS - but it's been awhile. It seems different graders at different GIA labs plot feathers differently. There are those that contend that feathers do not, necessarily, reach the surface and, in practice many jewelers have found that to be the case. Yet the GIA educational materials suggest that ALL feathers reach the surface.

Just for fun - red or green? :)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,726
These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Diamond_Hawk said:
gr8leo87|1464346532|4036907 said:
Every feather is on the surface. If it's not on surface it's not plotted as feathers on GIA reports or called a feather for grading purpose where there's no plotting diagram for example dossier reports.
This is a much covered topic here on PS - but it's been awhile. It seems different graders at different GIA labs plot feathers differently. There are those that contend that feathers do not, necessarily, reach the surface and, in practice many jewelers have found that to be the case. Yet the GIA educational materials suggest that ALL feathers reach the surface.

Just for fun - red or green? :)
The question is not breaking surface at what magnification? Something that doesn't appear to be breaking at 10x may appear to be breaking at a higher mag.

10x mag is to determine is the visibility of an inclusion and not necessarily to tell the type of inclusion.

I remember on another thread David from DBL got in touch with his contacts at GIA and was confirmed a feather has to break.

I think the forum needs a literature update on this topic. Or at least a dedicated thread for this discussion to bring the consumers upto speed with the current understanding.

Sorry for the threadjack.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

willpianist

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 27, 2016
Messages
3
However I'm surprised someone hasn't come and disapproved that stone yet.
What does that mean? Does it mean that despite the feather, the clairty plot of this stone is enough for me to disapprove the diamond? Please advise.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,726
willpianist|1464408726|4037231 said:
However I'm surprised someone hasn't come and disapproved that stone yet.
What does that mean? Does it mean that despite the feather, the clairty plot of this stone is enough for me to disapprove the diamond? Please advise.
He might have been referring to the fact that it has some measurements outside of the range we normally recommend. See my post before this one.
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
diamondseeker2006 said:
willpianist|1464408726|4037231 said:
However I'm surprised someone hasn't come and disapproved that stone yet.
What does that mean? Does it mean that despite the feather, the clairty plot of this stone is enough for me to disapprove the diamond? Please advise.
He might have been referring to the fact that it has some measurements outside of the range we normally recommend. See my post before this one.
Bingo.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Also GIA doesn't report a 40.9 degrees Pavillion angle it's either rounded down to 40.8 or up to 41.0. So don't be surprised if you don't find a 40.9 degrees Pavillion angle on GIA reports.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
 

Diamond_Hawk

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
1,221
gr8leo87|1464406105|4037221 said:
Diamond_Hawk said:
gr8leo87|1464346532|4036907 said:
Every feather is on the surface. If it's not on surface it's not plotted as feathers on GIA reports or called a feather for grading purpose where there's no plotting diagram for example dossier reports.
This is a much covered topic here on PS - but it's been awhile. It seems different graders at different GIA labs plot feathers differently. There are those that contend that feathers do not, necessarily, reach the surface and, in practice many jewelers have found that to be the case. Yet the GIA educational materials suggest that ALL feathers reach the surface.

Just for fun - red or green? :)
The question is not breaking surface at what magnification? Something that doesn't appear to be breaking at 10x may appear to be breaking at a higher mag.

10x mag is to determine is the visibility of an inclusion and not necessarily to tell the type of inclusion.

I remember on another thread David from DBL got in touch with his contacts at GIA and was confirmed a feather has to break.

I think the forum needs a literature update on this topic. Or at least a dedicated thread for this discussion to bring the consumers upto speed with the current understanding.

Sorry for the threadjack.
Great idea - either one, the literature or a dedicated thread.

The magnification issue is exactly the type of interpretation that needs to be discusse. Also - threadjack apologies.
 
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