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Fancy Yellow Diamond Performance/Clarity Question

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Patrick704

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2014
Messages
35
Hi all,

First of all I would like to thanks all of you on this forum, I have gained a lot of knowledge in a short amount of time in regards to diamonds and retailers GOG,DBL,WhiteFlash etc.. by reading your post. I am currently in the market for a fancy yellow diamond for my girlfriend(soon to be fiancé). I've begun the search, however I am still not sure what characteristics I should be looking for while determining if the diamond will perform well and what's an acceptable clarity level. I feel like salespeople are telling me anything to make a quick buck (fluorescence doesn't matter, go with a lower clarity because colored diamonds hide flaws better). I really want to buy a quality diamond and feel proud of my purchase. Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.
 
If a stone is eye clean and inclusions don't pose a setting risk then I think it is acceptable. From what I've seen yellow diamonds are more commonly found in better clarity grades than, say, pinks.

SI1 is usually eye clean and can be bought for lower prices than VS to IF. It's best to always ask if the stone is eye clean before a purchase just in case.

Edit-- welcome to PS btw :))
 
I'd ask the moderator to move this post to Rocky Talky where diamonds are discussed (click Report Concern on your original post). I prefer good clarity regardless of color. I'd use vendors here such as Good Old GOld to source stones for you and they can tell you which stones are better cut and perform better in combination with color preferences. They'll also take video for you of the stones.
 
Fancy yellows are fairly plentiful and not as expensive as you might think. Since you are looking for a stone in which yellow is desired its best to stay away from any strong blue fluorescence, medium is iffy. Many of these stones will be a fancy shape, the most common will be a radiant. Rounds will be hard to come by and more expensive.

Fancy color diamonds are cut for color, since that is the main concern, overall cut will take a back seat, as well as symmetry. As stated you can find yellows in SI1's and above, as compared to pinks which are usually SI1 and below.
 
Color is more important than inclusions in fancy colored diamonds. An SI1 diamond would most likely be fine as long as it's not an emerald cut. Most Fancy Yellow stones are radiant cut which brings out the color more and also "hides" the inclusions more. Look for a stone where the color is evenly dispersed throughout the stone and does not have the "bow tie" effect on the sides. Color is very personal in fancy color stones. I happen to like FLY stones much better than the darker yellows. Do you have an idea of what your soon to be fiancé likes better?
 
Hi Patrick,
Welcome to Pricescope.
Great questions.

You've used the word "performance". As it applies to Fancy Colored diamonds, there are different parameters that many people judge FCD's on- that vary from parameters used to judge colorless RBC diamonds.

I can't say you weren't being aggressively sold, but in Fancy Yellow Diamonds, clarity does play a less prominent role than in colorless.
For example, when comparing colorless stones, there's a rather "logical" progression of prices based on clarity.
D/VVS1 is pretty much always more than D/VS1, for example.
In Fancy Yellow Diamonds, color plays a more important role- so a very strong Fancy Yellow SI1- a stone that is very close to Intense yellow- may bring a higher price than a Fancy Yellow Internally Flawless with a weaker color. Or a stone graded Fancy Yellow that has some sort of "unidentified modifier" that GIA failed to identify on the report. Maybe the stone has a faint brown tint.
If both stones are visually identical based on clarity, yet one is visually superior ( deeper and/or more pure) in terms of color, a higher price seems to be rather logical.
So, in this case, "performance" might be about the purity and intensity of the color.

Cut is another interesting aspect, if we want to try to gauge "performance" of Fancy Yellow Diamonds.
For example, visual size, or spread.
In EX cut grade round diamonds there's minimal variation on mm size if the stones have the same weight.
In fancy shapes, there can be HUGE variations in surface area based on cut.
Would you consider a stone more appealing if it was bigger, even if it has slightly less sparkle than another stone of the same weight/price that had a noticeably smaller appearance?
In many cases it's not even that clear cut- rather than one being clearly "better" we are comparing two stones with differing optical signatures.
Declaring one "superior" is merely a statement of taste in many cases.


About what you'll see the most of- nowadays, in Natural Yellow diamonds in larger sizes- about say 3/4ct and up, Cushion is actually a lot more common than Radiant cut- which didn't used to be the case- most likely why others have said it's still the case.

Fluorescence- it's actually not a clear cut case about what sort of visual effect this characteristic has on a given stone.
Sometimes a Fancy Yellow with Medium Blue can look much deep in color than an inert stone when they are viewed in normal room lighting.
But that's rare.
Regardless of what specifics actually occur in specific stones, in Fancy Yellow diamonds, Medium or Strong blue DOES affect price in a negative fashion- such stones are less than comparable inert stones.

A blanket statement of "Fluorescence does not matter" would not be informative IMO.


Hope this helps!!
 
arkieb1|1395063741|3635746 said:
I take it that you have looked on the Diamonds by Lauren site? Some more to consider for a yellow diamond might be Leibish;

http://www.leibish.com/yellow-diamonds

And Mark Broumand;

http://www.markbroumand.com/

James Allen has some well cut yellow stones from time to time as well.
Click to expand...

I have browsed both website, currently I am working with Matt from Good old Gold and things are going well.
 
Thanks for your in-depth response rock diamond. When I speak of performance I am talking about sparkle. I wouldn't mind stepping down in clarity (Nothing below SI) for a more intense color, which i know are typically more expensive. I the diamond in your profile is perfect, would that be considered vivid? I'm glad you brought up modifiers, I don't want any green/browns affecting the natural color either. Matt from GOG has been great so far, I'm planning to get an analysis done soon of the few diamonds I choose.
 
Catmom|1395068075|3635786 said:
Do you have an idea of what your soon to be fiancé likes better?
Click to expand...

She likes Fancy Yellow/fancy intense
 
Patrick704|1395101705|3636135 said:
Thanks for your in-depth response rock diamond. When I speak of performance I am talking about sparkle. I wouldn't mind stepping down in clarity (Nothing below SI) for a more intense color, which i know are typically more expensive. I the diamond in your profile is perfect, would that be considered vivid? I'm glad you brought up modifiers, I don't want any green/browns affecting the natural color either. Matt from GOG has been great so far, I'm planning to get an analysis done soon of the few diamonds I choose.
Click to expand...

Clarity provided the stone is eyeclean generally doesn't impact greatly on sparkle, if the stone is not eyeclean and full of inclusions then that is a different story..... A lot of fancy coloured diamonds are cut for colour and to maximise weight so the actually quality of the cut is not always the best. The cut is one of the main factors that people often ignore that gives a diamond the sparkle or max performance you are talking about. So the best advise is to buy something 110% eyeclean, with a decent cut and a colour that you like or can live with. A suggestion might be when you find a couple of stones that you like that are in budget put them on hold and post the specs and the great community here will tell you what they think of them and which one is the best choice.
 
arkieb1|1395102181|3636140 said:
The cut is one of the main factors that people often ignore that gives a diamond the sparkle or max performance you are talking about. So the best advise is to buy something 110% eyeclean, with a decent cut and a colour that you like or can live with.
Click to expand...

I've seen sites thats give ideal % for table size,girdle, depth etc... is this what I should base the cut quality off of?
 
Patrick704|1395102434|3636146 said:
arkieb1|1395102181|3636140 said:
The cut is one of the main factors that people often ignore that gives a diamond the sparkle or max performance you are talking about. So the best advise is to buy something 110% eyeclean, with a decent cut and a colour that you like or can live with.
Click to expand...

I've seen sites thats give ideal % for table size,girdle, depth etc... is this what I should base the cut quality off of?
Click to expand...

You are not going to be able to tell much by the numbers. I'd ask GOG to call in some until they can find a couple that have all the qualities that you want. They can help you assess cut, and obviously color is impossible to judge without seeing the stone.
 
The colour and cut are lovely but it is top heavy with an overall depth of 95%, so it faces up smaller than what one would expect a 1 carat diamond would.
 
Chrono|1395163725|3636549 said:
The colour and cut are lovely but it is top heavy with an overall depth of 95%, so it faces up smaller than what one would expect a 1 carat diamond would.
Click to expand...

I agree, the depth kills this diamond.
 
I am a big fan of fancy yellows and personally prefer a pure fancy yellow or fancy intense as well, occasionally a vivid. My favorite stone is a fancy yellow (but I personally think it may be graded intense and may have it reassessed) and it is a modified pear. My stone is also deep, in fancy colors this can be acceptable because the main point is to bring out the color and have it spread as evenly as possible throughout the stone. So here I beg to disagree a bit; the stone may look a bit smaller face up, however, the color is key in this case and I can assure you my stone has the most even color, no shadows or white areas, no bowtie whatsoever, amazing brilliance and it wowed me the moment I saw it. Very true that they hide inclusions well, as long as the color is strong enough and the inclusions are not black crystals. Mine is a VS and even with a loupe I seriously have a hard time with the inclusions whereas I find them right away in a colorless stone. The color is the most important factor here but I would not put it as cut does not matter; it does matter just as much as the evenness and depth of color depends on exactly that, however, in this case divergence from the norm for whites is allowed. You have to visually judge the stone. The problem with this princess I have a bit is that I detect a brown modifier in it but it could just be the pix, you really have to see FCDs in real life if it is possible. Oftentimes it is ok to order though if the vendor is reputable and you may be allowed to return, the stone may look even better IRL than on the pix.
 
Here's a picture sent to me today from GOG one of the diamonds they're having shipped in to do analysis on. Its a 1 ct vs1 fancy intense stone. I'll post better pics after they make the video. There are a few areas on the diamond where its not as yellow. I was told its common in radiant cuts.Thoughts?

screen_shot_2014-03-20_at_8.png
 
You are right, the picture is not good and shows areas of color leakage, this is not attractive at all IMHO. You really want to avoid this because in FCDs color is key; careful cutting should be done to bring out as deeply saturated and even color as possible and to sacrifice even weight to achieve this. You know that you have a really good FCD when the stone's color is completely evenly saturated. The areas on the sides really bother me in this stone. Also even when face up the color is completely even, you can see variations when looking from the culet and/or girdle, so if you see problems with the color face up, you can be sure the stone is not even in color and/or not well cut. That said you must remember that this is only true when you view the stone IRL. Pictures often do not do justice and photographing FCDs is extremely difficult, hence this stone may be far better IRL but I am not sure that if we see such problems on the photo that this stone is a prime example IRL. I always recommend seeing FCDs in person and even then so much depends on the lighting; a yellow I selected under artificial lighting looked a hundred times better in daylight.
 
OVincze|1395388491|3638599 said:
You are right, the picture is not good and shows areas of color leakage, this is not attractive at all IMHO. You really want to avoid this because in FCDs color is key; careful cutting should be done to bring out as deeply saturated and even color as possible and to sacrifice even weight to achieve this.
Click to expand...

This looks a lot better http://www.diamondsbylauren.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-yellow-diamond-121ct-fancy-intense-yellow-si1-cushion-cut-gia-remarkable-brilliance-r5337
 
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