fake GIA certs

[diamond_asker]

hello,

i''ve heard there are fake GIA certs going around these days. is that true? if so, how does one even know what he''s buying???

i know you can look up the cert number, but it may be a copy of a real cert, which just doesn''t match the diamond. should i perhaps take someone who knows about this to look at the stone and make sure it matches the cert? will an accredited jewler know for sure if the stone on the cert is the same one i''m looking at?

not to mention the fact the guy may be even working with the seller... like in "criminals" (a pretty good movie, by the way). what does one do??? fly in a professional from texas to look at a stone in new york just to make sure i''m not getting ripped ofF? what is this world coming to?

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/28/2008 10:59:21 AM
Author:diamond_asker
hello,

i've heard there are fake GIA certs going around these days. is that true? if so, how does one even know what he's buying???

i know you can look up the cert number, but it may be a copy of a real cert, which just doesn't match the diamond. should i perhaps take someone who knows about this to look at the stone and make sure it matches the cert? will an accredited jewler know for sure if the stone on the cert is the same one i'm looking at?

not to mention the fact the guy may be even working with the seller... like in 'criminals' (a pretty good movie, by the way). what does one do??? fly in a professional from texas to look at a stone in new york just to make sure i'm not getting ripped ofF? what is this world coming to?

An independant appraiser should be able to verify that a diamond and the report match. Here is a tool you can use to find an appraiser in your area. With the type of budget you are considering ( going by the diamond you linked in another thread) then an independant appraisal would be a good idea whatever you buy.

https://www.pricescope.com/appr_list.aspx

 

[John P]

Date: 11/28/2008 10:59:21 AM
Author:diamond_asker
hello,

i've heard there are fake GIA certs going around these days. is that true? if so, how does one even know what he's buying???

i know you can look up the cert number, but it may be a copy of a real cert, which just doesn't match the diamond. should i perhaps take someone who knows about this to look at the stone and make sure it matches the cert? will an accredited jewler know for sure if the stone on the cert is the same one i'm looking at?

not to mention the fact the guy may be even working with the seller... like in 'criminals' (a pretty good movie, by the way). what does one do??? fly in a professional from texas to look at a stone in new york just to make sure i'm not getting ripped ofF? what is this world coming to?

You're pretty safe when dealing with reputable people. An actual GIA or AGS report costs little compared to what it adds in terms of value and sale-ability in the store. It's pretty easy for tradespeople (and educated consumers) to spot a report that obviously does not match the diamond in color/clarity or basic measurements...and it makes no sense to "fake" reports that feature actual grades and measurements. A reputable jeweler would not risk his hard-won standing with such flim-flammery. He will also know the suppliers he does business with, and the same logic applies to them.

Your fears are not uncommon, so it's acceptable to ask the question. Hopefully the pros you're dealing with can give you assurances. In addition to the report-check services online a capable gemologist in the store should be able to match inclusions/blemishes (if present) to the plot using a microscope. Diameter, depth and table measurements can be verified with a gauge and one can get pretty close to judging minor facets lengths by eye. For complete assurance you can certainly involve an appraiser. Use one with enough tools to verify cut and measurement aspects, not just color and clarity (which are a bit subjective anyway)... I've watched Neil Beaty match a diamond to its reported crown and pavilion angles using photographs and the DiamCalc software application. Other "modern" appraisers who post on this site are similarly armed with jedi abilities.

It all begins with the reputability of the pros involved. Do your due diligence on sellers (and appraisers) just as you would with a home or car purchase: An established seller with a strong history in the professional community is probably a better bet than shady guy on a corner, opening his trench coat to sell you a D-Flawless "for a steal."

 

[denverappraiser]

For starters, if you must fly around a high priced expert, I recommend you fly in one from Colorado

, not Texas

. Let me know if you need assistance with this.

Although it’s made the news a bit lately with some high profile frauds, outright counterfeit GIA & AGS documents are fantastically rare and a mismatching between the stone and the report presented, although more common, is decidedly unusual when dealing with professionals. When you buy a diamond, your first line of defense is the confidence you are placing in your dealer and your second line is the confidence you are placing in your appraiser. The general solution is in your mindset. Buy the diamond, not the paper. It’s not GIA who made it a VS1 or whatever and savvy dealers can and will simply grade it themselves. The GIA is simply documenting it in an official way and resolving some borderline calls. The matching you describe is part of the service being offered by your appraiser. They may or may not agree with what GIA has said, and should certainly tell you if there is any discrepancy, but they should also tell you if the report is genuine and unaltered and that it applies to the subject stone.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[John P]

Date: 11/28/2008 3:56:48 PM
Author: denverappraiser
For starters, if you must fly around a high priced expert, I recommend you fly in one from Colorado

, not Texas

. Let me know if you need assistance with this.

It''s rare that I depart from Neil in such matters, but I think your first instinct was correct. Texas. Yes. Fly them from Texas.

 

[O5M]

is there anyway you can look up a cert # online on the GIA website? (to check if the number is legitimate)

 

[John P]

Date: 11/28/2008 8:11:24 PM
Author: O5M
is there anyway you can look up a cert # online on the GIA website? (to check if the number is legitimate)

Yes. GIA Report Check: http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/

A few of the major labs have this kind of online look-up service.

The original poster was concerned that an actual report - one which shows up on report check - could be faked/duplicated and sold with a different diamond.