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Facet pattern of round brilliant

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
Hi diamond specialists

A lover of gems, especially diamonds and antique jewellery, I am still in the process of learning. The stone in the photo comes from an older ring. I don’t know much of when it was bought. The pattern of the facets have just always irritated me a bit. They seem rather chunky and bigger than in common modern round brilliants I’ve seen. It is a round brilliant cut, not an old cut, though. What are your thoughts?
 

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tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,404
Hi Roselina,

Welcome to Pricescope!

Is it GIA certified? We can tell from the Cert what's going on.

Looks like it may be a shallow stone?
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
Thank you! Oh yes, sorry, I forgot. Shape, cut says round brilliant.
Symmetry: very good
Polish: good
Proportions: depth: 59%, table: 60%
Girdle: medium to thin, bruted
The cut is stated only as “good”
Clarity VS1
Colour L
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,404
How long are the lower Girdle facets? Should be a number on the left side bottom of the pavilion.

Edit...what are the crown and pavilion angles?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,146
Flat top, overly deep pavilion, unusually short LGH.
Chunkiness from overly large table reflection in the middle (due to deep pavilion and modestly large table of 60%), and fat arrows from short LGH.
 
Last edited:

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
How long are the lower Girdle facets? Should be a number on the left side bottom of the pavilion.

Edit...what are the crown and pavilion angles?
Oh, I can’t tell. The report is from SSEF (Swiss Gemmological Institute), which is similar to GIA. But they obviously didn’t note down that info...
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
Flat top, overly deep pavilion, unusually short LGH.
Chunkiness from overly large table reflection in the middle (due to deep pavilion and modestly large table or 60%), and fat arrows from short LGH.
For beginners like me: what is LGH?
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,146
For beginners like me: what is LGH?
LGH/LGF.
In short, the lower the LGH %, the chunkiner the arrows.

I found somewhat similar stone.
Looks similar to yours?
Notice low crown angle of 29, high pavilion angle of 41.6, and low LGH% of 65.

To be honest, I do not dislike your stone. It is a very unique "GOOD" cut stone. Technical speaking, it actually has more brightness, spread and balanced contrast than some of poorly cut Steep/Deep GIA Triple.X stones. Enjoy it.
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
LGH/LGF.
In short, the lower the LGH %, the chunkiner the arrows.

I found somewhat similar stone.
Looks similar to yours?
Notice low crown angle of 29, high pavilion angle of 41.6, and low LGH% of 65.

To be honest, I do not dislike your stone. It is a very unique "GOOD" cut stone. Technical speaking, it actually has more brightness, spread and balanced contrast than some of poorly cut Steep/Deep GIA Triple.X stones. Enjoy it.
Thank you! I really learn a lot here! Yes, that stone is quite similar. And I actually like it a lot as well. It’s different, but special.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,404
I actually dont dislike your stone either...wondering if its an early round brilliant.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,439
@flyingpig what kind of search criteria are you using to find the super fat LGF's?

I saw the following MSS16 stone, introduced by Serg, in a different thread and been really interested in finding something like this

Fun fact: LGF's of MSS16 = 61.97! Makes 75's look like twigs, lol.

Video of MSS16 (lower left)....compliments of @Serg

DiboxJD movies

Upper Left - MSS13 Ca 34, Pa 41, Tb 57,
Lower Left - MSS16 Ca 37.5, Pa 40.6, Tb 57,
Upper Right - MSS17 Ca 39, Pa 40, Tb 61,
Lower Right - MSS18 Ca 37.5, Pa 40.4, Tb 57

More images and specs on MSS16:
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,146
@flyingpig what kind of search criteria are you using to find the super fat LGF's?

I saw the following MSS16 stone, introduced by Serg, in a different thread and been really interested in finding something like this
You won't find stones like MSS16 using normal search tools.
First, you cannot even adjust search criteria to find stones with low LGF %. You basically need to see each photo.
Second, MSS16 with 61 LGF % won't even qualify as GIA VERY GOOD. It would be graded as GIA GOOD (or lower) or Circular Brilliant. As you know, most search tools do not list Circular Brilliant or OEC. Who would want such beautiful stone graded and marketed as GIA GOOD?

Having that said, there are some reasonably good looking GIA VGs with fat arrows out there.
If you have 5k to burn and play with, actually, not a bad choice. It is an eye-clean 1.0c D SI1 under 5k. And surprising, very little leakage.
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
You won't find stones like MSS16 using normal search tools.
First, you cannot even adjust search criteria to find stones with low LGF %. You basically need to see each photo.
Second, MSS16 with 61 LGF % won't even qualify as GIA VERY GOOD. It would be graded as GIA GOOD (or lower) or Circular Brilliant. As you know, most search tools do not list Circular Brilliant or OEC. Who would want such beautiful stone graded and marketed as GIA GOOD?

Having that said, there are some reasonably good looking GIA VGs with fat arrows out there.
If you have 5k to burn and play with, actually, not a bad choice. It is an eye-clean 1.0c D SI1 under 5k. And surprising, very little leakage.
Thanks for all the explanations! So the “good” cut could indeed be a result from short LGF’s? Not that I care about that grade... I intend to keep the stone and I love the pattern, but think it’s interesting.
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
I finally got more specs:
Star facet: 45%
LGF: 65%
Crown angle: 29
Pavilion angle: 42

So pretty much what you experts told me! Looks like circular brilliant specs - just the culet is somehow missing, or I just can‘t see it...
 

Sunstorm

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Feb 5, 2014
Messages
1,586
Such a cool stone @Roselina! It has character, very unique and I so love character stones, diamonds that are one of a kind. This is such a stone and it does indeed resemble an old cut, which I adore, in many respects. Enjoy!!!
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
Thank you @Sunstorm! I do like character stones as well. It‘s a present from my husband who got it with no knowledge about diamonds at all (but with a love for stones). He did well 8-)
 

CaseyLouLou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
199
Hopefully it won’t irritate you anymore now that you understand it better. I love it. I have come to realize that chunky facets are more interesting (to me) than most modern cuts.
 

Roselina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2020
Messages
82
@CaseyLouLou Thank you! I love things with character and history. So I usually decide just by looking at a piece and the feeling I get from it. But I do love to investigate in order to figure out why that particular piece looks how it looks. This ring came up on auction and had no papers (quite often in Europe).
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,146
I finally got more specs:
Star facet: 45%
LGF: 65%
Crown angle: 29
Pavilion angle: 42

So pretty much what you experts told me! Looks like circular brilliant specs - just the culet is somehow missing, or I just can‘t see it...
Thanks for coming back with the specs. It was fun figuring out and predicting what the angles would be. Love doing this kind of stuff.
 

CaseyLouLou

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 22, 2019
Messages
199
@CaseyLouLou Thank you! I love things with character and history. So I usually decide just by looking at a piece and the feeling I get from it. But I do love to investigate in order to figure out why that particular piece looks how it looks. This ring came up on auction and had no papers (quite often in Europe).
Sounds like you were more confused than irritated by it which makes sense!!
 
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