Expertise Requested | Please let me know

[Truesoul]

I'm trying to decide if i should buy a pair of earrings from my local jewelry store or from an online vendor. I can't go much above $3,000 and she wants around 1.6 total weight. She is completely happy with the ones she located at the local brick and mortar Shane Co. for approximiately $3,600 has the following stats with no certificate:

1.62CTS Total Gem Weight
H - I Color Range
I2 - I3 Clarity


The online vendor is offering a diamond is certified by DGI (www.dgi-labs.com). They state it the pair is 1.85ct total D SI1 VG cut for $3,000. Which seems to be a much better deal than the ones offered by Shane Co. The vendor also sent a link to a video of the diamonds at:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zztiqhJNh3U&feature=youtu.be


I uploaded a copy of the certificates...





Thank you! Your knowledge and opinions would be appreciated or if i should ask for any additional information etc.

 

[Gypsy]

DGI?

No.

GIA. AGS. Or, if you are in Europe: HRD. Nothing else. BUT ESPECIALLY not DGI. Those might as well be graded by Joe's Diamond Shack.

I-2 and I-3 clarity. And I can bet you those aren't real H-I color.

OMG. That's just barely a diamond.

Does she want something that sparkles? Cause that's not it. I know you said she wants 1.6 carat weight. But the fact that those stones from Shane Company are okay with her tells me she knows NOTHING about diamonds.

And that price. OMG are you getting ripped off!

But she's much better off getting something only slightly smaller but great quality. Stones with great cut look bigger than ones without (like those). And they actually SPARKLE when you wear them or when they are dirty (which is always when they are on the ears).



You'd be better off (MUCH) with these:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4836685-0.70-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4836685&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com Ask if eyeclean
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4411320-0.70-carat-Round-diamond-J-color-VS2-Clarity.aspx?sku=4411320&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com Ask if eyeclean

1.4 carat total weight.
J color (which will be whiter than those supposed "H-I" stones. Vs2 clarity. GIA Ex stones. Plus they get excellent scores for numbers. And B2C can get you idealscopes to confirm light performance before you buy.

1629
1543
____
3,173 for the stones.
175 for basic setting http://www.b2cjewels.com/Design-Earring.aspx?pageid=1&metal=White%20Gold or 199 for the upgrade to martini's.
$3,348 delivered to your house.

 

[Gypsy]

If your lady wants bigger you can easily work with Wink at High Performance diamonds to find a pair of well cut GIA Ex K SI1 that are eyeclean and go up to 80-85 points. They will STILL be whiter and those "DGI" stones. And it will get you to 5.8mm which will be indistinguishable from those poorly cut hunks of carbon the Shane Company is trying to sell you at 5.9mm. And they would be MUCH nicer.

And honestly, even if I had a ton of money. I wouldn't buy anything over J or K for studs that size as they will be plenty white and gorgeous.

I would work with Wink. Because he'll be able to screen the diamonds for you for cut, and to make sure they are eyeclean.
But he is an example of what you can get in your budget:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4667586-0.81-carat-Round-diamond-K-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4667586&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-4686437-0.80-carat-Round-diamond-K-color-SI1-Clarity.aspx?sku=4686437&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

If you want to buy from B2C ask if these are eyeclean and for an idealscope.

But given that you guys were okay with doggy quality I-1 and 1-2 diamonds I'm not exactly worried about the clarity.

 

[JulieN]

The DGI ones are clarity enhanced, that is why they are so cheap.

 

[proto]

What Gypsy said.

DGI would be enough for me to run away and take a shower.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Those are deeper than the Grand Canyon ...

 

[Lorelei]

Those are deeper than the Grand Canyon ...

I must ensure I don't have a mouthful of liquid in future when I read DF's posts....

Hi Truesoul and welcome!

The others have given you fantastic help and I would seriously consider their suggestions. You have a very nice budget and although you won't get good quality stones in the size she wants for that, you can still get lovely diamonds that will sparkle and even though are smaller, will outshine the ones you mention and probably not even look a lot smaller visually due to that sparkle and better proportioning.

You mention though that your GF is completely happy with the ones you found above, I would show her this thread so she can read the opinions on these stones. Another useful exercise could be to show her some well cut diamonds in person so she can see the difference, if you have a Hearts on Fire dealer near you or Tiffany, then she can see the difference cut makes. Also you don't need the absolute best cut diamonds to have them sparkle and if you would like and you are open to buying online, take a look at the suggestions Gypsy posted, those stones will definitely have a wow factor. Also, clarity enhancing as Jules mentions will definitely make diamonds cheaper, in some cases they might be worth considering for earrings but you have to be careful. Depending on the clarity enhancing technique used, you have to be careful how you clean these diamonds otherwise you could destroy the enhancement.

Also, I haven't heard of this lab that graded the diamonds so we have no idea of the accuracy of the claims these stones are what they say they are unfortunately. You want to spend your 3k wisely, if in the end your GF still wants the original diamonds and you are ok with that then that's up to you, but at least you can make more of an informed choice now. Also if you went with diamonds from a vendor with an upgrade policy, when finances permit, you could work your way up towards the 1.5 cts she wants. The problem is with these types of very included diamonds mentioned originally, they might show a slight sparkle in jewellery store lights, but once you get them out of the store and in everyday viewing conditions, they can go dead. No point having big stones without sparkle in my opinion, then the effect just isn't there and it would be very disappointing for you both if that happened.

I hope this is helpful, please let us know should you have any further questions!

 

[proto]

I would add there is nothing wrong with clarity enhancement, as long as it is disclosed to you and reflected in the price.

I would stick to laser drilling and stay away from filler materials (lifetime guaranteed or not).

Another option is to go for synthetic diamonds, (not CZ or substitute) if you want size. These can often go for around 30% discount to mined diamonds.

 

[Gypsy]

The DGI ones are clarity enhanced, that is why they are so cheap.

They aren't cheap!

Those wouldn't even be valued at HALF that price. And a truly reputable jeweler who cares about his customer's wouldn't even STOCK them!

A) They are clarity enhanced. Treatment NOT LISTED!!!
B) Graded by the equivalent of Joe's Diamond Shack or "DGI".
C) H-I color. YEAH. RIGHT. I'll EAT those diamonds if they are actually anywhere near that color range. If they were they would have been sent to EGL at LEAST. They weren't.
D) Horribly bad cut (67 depth! On a round brilliant!). They are the diamond AT THE FAR RIGHT (very deep) of the pictured chart below. THEY WILL NOT SPARKLE outside of the jeweler's special lighting. And definitely not on the ear! And they will look TINY because there is NO light return at the edges!



Seriously. $3,600 is not CHEAP. Even if they WERE clarity enhanced and graded by EGL USA as being H-I they would cost LESS than that at a reputable jeweler.

But they aren't even EGL graded. And that's like a bare minimum FLOOR for earring quality.

Joe's. Diamond. Shack. Clarity enhanced to REACH I clarity. $3,600.

That's a straight rip off. Not "cheap."

 

[Truesoul]

Thanks for the help. I will definately stay away from those diamonds from the online vendor. I will take my wife to see some that have on of the better cuts, we have a tiffany and rogers near us.

The only reason i was thinking Shane Co, was because we had some items we previously purchased and got credit to the diamonds which made them 2600 out the door; however, i do agree that $3600 for non certified diamonds seems high compared to the examples you gave. And if i do buy the diamonds somewhere else, then i can use the credit on some gold jewelry.

Just out of curiosity, what should i look for on diamond proportions to know i am getting a diamond that falls to the left of the chart that Gypsy posted and not to the right? I saw many people posted those diamonds are very deep.

Thank you, i really wish i would have known about this site when i bought my engagement ring. You are all very helpful to a newbie like me to this stuff.

And by the way, neither of us know much about diamonds. She like sparkly things, what girl doesn't, that is a nice contrast between the studs that she inherited, and wants something that will look nice even if it gets slightly dirty from ware. I want a good balance of giving her what she wants and not breaking the bank. I think you have given some good options...thanks again.

 

[proto]

brian gavin habing a sale.on.diamond.studs this.weekend.witha code.

i.deleted the emaol.but.im.sure someone.else.can help.out.

they are.more.pricy.but.reflected in.the.cut.

 

[MollyMalone]

Here's the info posted on Brian Gavin's web site re the Memorial Day weekend discount :
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/special-offers/

As an informational aside, the study that Rapaport did last year concluded that GIA, IGI and EGL-US labs were close enough in their grading of the stones submitted as to "suggest that the[se] U.S.-based labs are working within comparable boundaries."
http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417

 

[Gypsy]

Just out of curiosity, what should i look for on diamond proportions to know i am getting a diamond that falls to the left of the chart that Gypsy posted and not to the right? I saw many people posted those diamonds are very deep.

To get you started:

ON CUT for ROUND BRILLIANT DIAMONDS:
The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only. EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.


Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium.

 

[Sunstorm]

Welcome OP, you are in the right place and very happy you came here because as you stated you do not know much about diamonds and here you will get great help from the wonderful folks. Please, please listen to all of the posters especially what Gypsy said above. Do not even consider either of those original options because it would be like throwing your money out of the window. As to Shane, I2-I3 are the very worst clarity grades, they are practically industrial grade diamonds, nothing that would look nice or even wearable in jewelry. Yes, there can be occasionally a good I1 stone but they are rare and leave them to those who know diamonds very well. I2-I3 diamonds will have such diminished brilliance that they will hardly look like what diamonds are supposed to look like. They are most likely speckled with black carbon inclusions which always remind me of flea dirt and a myriad of other inclusions which could really affect the durability of the stones too. You definitely do not want to end up with well not pretty diamonds and stones that will shatter if you ever happen to drop them or the like. As to labs, yes GIA, AGS or in Europe HRD and actually Gubelin are the best, IGI is all right, any others will at least possibly assign grades that are way better than the actual specs of the stones in question. The wonderful folks here will give you ideas about what to look for; cut is extremely important as well which you have not considered yet but the people here will point you in the right direction.

 

[Sunstorm]

Lorelei, second that about your American boyfriend's post... ROFL.

 

[Sunstorm]

I have to add that I have not even gotten as far as looking at the depth of those stones; they will look very small with very poor light return. I would run as far as I could from Shane, not the mention the online option. There are many great online options, please listen to the suggestions Gypsy made. Perhaps for studs you would not need AGS000 but you do need at least excellent/ideal cut. Cut is the single most important factor. That said such poor clarity should result in an instant no. Companies like Shane hand out certificates to buy their very overpriced and very poor quality goods. They are able to do this as their goods are worth a tiny fraction of what they sell them for, if that. There is no such thing as a deal when it comes to diamonds; you pay what they are worth (well, in the best case and yes in many cases you overpay). The vendors Gypsy recommended are very reputable, not everyone wants to use the technologies suggested and that is fine but you can at least ensure that if you get the earrings from the best, you will not be disappointed. Please consider going down in weight a bit if you can and up in quality; weight does not equal size anyhow; the deep stones have a much smaller face up size. You can also get a different shape, a bezel set or a halo if you would like a larger look but honestly if you get anything around or over 1.2-1.4 cttw in great quality they will make an impression.

 

[Dancing Fire]

As to Shane, I2-I3 are the very worst clarity grades, they are practically industrial grade diamonds, nothing that would look nice or even wearable in jewelry. Yes, there can be occasionally a good I1 stone but they are rare and leave them to those who know diamonds very well. I2-I3 diamonds will have such diminished brilliance that they will hardly look like what diamonds are supposed to look like. They are most likely speckled with black carbon inclusions which always remind me of flea dirt and a myriad of other inclusions which could really affect the durability of the stones too.

They are label as "salt & pepper" stones...

 

[Sunstorm]

That is probably more polite terminology than my flea XYZ term)

 

[Lorelei]

Lorelei, second that about your American boyfriend's post... ROFL.

LOL OVi, my American BF makes no bones about his feelings as the saying goes! I am giggling about your ' flea dirts' comment, that is so true with some very included industrial grade stones!

 

[usadiamonds]

DGI LABS OR DIA LABS ARE SCAMS

dgi labs that Israeli diamond dealer scam, they write what they want to document , second name of them is dia labs
dia-labs.com, they sell a lot of diamonds on EBAY, AMAZON, this fraud and cheating, trying to fool us with these certified diamonds, diamond ranking of J they write it E, a laser treated or HPHT treated diamonds are not specified in the certificate and it is a criminal offense

Trust AGS , GIA , HRD , IGI , GCI ,EGL USA

 

[Gypsy]

Re: DGI LABS OR DIA LABS ARE SCAMS

Trust AGS , GIA , HRD , IGI , GCI ,EGL USA

WRONG.

AGS and GIA ONLY. HRD if overseas.

 

[Sunstorm]

Gypsy, I mostly agree with what you are saying but I have to say that I have not had problems with IGI Antwerp reports. I wonder why IGI gets a bad name, perhaps others could chime in, the stones I have with IGI Antwerp reports, the reports are right on. Maybe I was lucky or perhaps IGI USA is so much below as far as their standards go? I have been wondering about this because I heard people speaking up against IGI USA too, it has come up several times on the forum, wonder if IGI will be next after EGL. I have of course always agreed about EGL and actually glad their reports got banned. That said, having had no problems with IGI Antwerp but having been inside both IGI Antwerp and HRD, they are not in the same league. HRD is really state of the art, I have been impressed. GIA I am the happiest with when it comes to FCDs especially. I have never had AGS stones here in Europe. Maybe someone could enlighten me because if people have had problems with IGI then I would not want to work with them either. I would have never taken a stone with an EGL report and definitely do not want to take some with IGI if they have a bad name.