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Expert Help! Small Certified or Big Uncertified ?

Steal-A-Deal

Rough_Rock
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Jun 19, 2021
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0AFA6DE2-4D8F-46B5-9DF0-8358EF271545.jpeg BC1FA9A1-4C23-4B1A-86EF-BDF270022499.jpeg

Hi everyone, currently diamond hunting for a solitaire engagement ring. My bf has given me full reign over the decision. This afternoon I viewed several diamonds at two different jewelry manufacturers.


The first was a 0.8 carat, EX cut, J VS2 and combined with a solitaire setting, would be priced over budget at around $6K CAD.

The second was at a family only jewelry manufacturer that makes everything in house and on site. The owner showed me 2 diamonds, both uncertified, the first was a 1.15 VG cut, J I1, the other, pictured here on the left, is a 1.31 VG cut, J I2. Again with the custom setting, it will work out to $4800 CAD, within budget.

As much as I want the bigger stone, would anyone recommend buying an uncertified diamond? He says it would be graded independently after I purchased it.

Thanks in advance!
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
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Apr 23, 2021
Messages
503
Typically, I would say no to uncertified.

Are there any proportions about it, such as the crown and pavilion angles, table Size, etc?
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
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3,604
No - the external, independent lab grading (GIA or AGS are the gold standard) grading is how you know you’re getting what you pay for in terms of colour clarity and cut information. Otherwise you’re paying for their best guess and they have a vested interest in guessing to maximise their profit.
 

lovedogs

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jul 31, 2014
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13,642
No - the external, independent lab grading (GIA or AGS are the gold standard) grading is how you know you’re getting what you pay for in terms of colour clarity and cut information. Otherwise you’re paying for their best guess and they have a vested interest in guessing to maximise their profit.

This. If it were a stone worth certifying, they would have certified it.

For the .8 one, do you have a copy of the lab report? What is your budget?
 

heididdl

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 25, 2012
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2,678
0AFA6DE2-4D8F-46B5-9DF0-8358EF271545.jpeg BC1FA9A1-4C23-4B1A-86EF-BDF270022499.jpeg

Hi everyone, currently diamond hunting for a solitaire engagement ring. My bf has given me full reign over the decision. This afternoon I viewed several diamonds at two different jewelry manufacturers.


The first was a 0.8 carat, EX cut, J VS2 and combined with a solitaire setting, would be priced over budget at around $6K CAD.

The second was at a family only jewelry manufacturer that makes everything in house and on site. The owner showed me 2 diamonds, both uncertified, the first was a 1.15 VG cut, J I1, the other, pictured here on the left, is a 1.31 VG cut, J I2. Again with the custom setting, it will work out to $4800 CAD, within budget.

As much as I want the bigger stone, would anyone recommend buying an uncertified diamond? He says it would be graded independently after I purchased it.

Thanks in advance!

Say no to uncertified and also you can do better keep looking
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
33,361
The second was at a family only jewelry manufacturer that makes everything in house and on site. The owner showed me 2 diamonds, both uncertified, the first was a 1.15 VG cut, J I1, the other, pictured here on the left, is a 1.31 VG cut, J I2. Again with the custom setting, it will work out to $4800 CAD, within budget.

As much as I want the bigger stone, would anyone recommend buying an uncertified diamond? He says it would be graded independently after I purchased it.

Thanks in advance!

scram.gif How fast can you run??
 

ringo865

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 14, 2014
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2,658
if its uncertified, how do you know it’s even an I2 and not a piece of granite? Eek.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
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Oct 11, 2011
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Never buy an uncertified diamond. In fact, I'd go so far as to say almost never buy a diamond that hasn't been graded by GIA or AGS. If the diamond was going to grade well enough to sell at the price they're trying to sell it at, they'd get the papers. Almost every time we see people who have vastly overpaid for a diamond, it is because they bought something that was uncerted or had a report from a dodgy lab.

Always get the diamond cost and setting cost broken out separately. This will enable you to compare things apples-to-apples.

Even if you decide to get a GIA-graded J I2, at least you'll know it is actually a J I2 and not something like an M I3.
 

Snowdrop13

Ideal_Rock
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2,593
Don’t do it! Look at this, you could get a certified, beautifully cut, better colour diamond online for the same or less. Plus all sorts of guarantees AND an upgrade policy, should you ever need it. Please look around a bit more.

 

dk168

Ideal_Rock
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Jul 7, 2013
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8,911
IMHO, it depends on one's definition of "mind clean".

I am unlikely to buy a new diamond without it being certified by a reputable laboratory and with the number of the certificate laser-engraved onto the girdle.

DK :))
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,134
I'd go middle of the road. Look for an I or J eye clean SI1 or 2, and get something smaller than the 1.31. I'd maximize my spend on the stone and get a more stock setting you can change later if you want. They start at around $235usd at Whiteflash which would be a super easy place to shop. You'd not have to worry about what stone to pick with an ACA or most likely even expert selection. Look at what is "in house" not virtual. Everything in house is pre- vetted for you.
 

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MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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13,296
With an uncertified diamond, you really have no idea what you are getting or what a fair value is for the stone. Any jeweler can quote you color/clarity and they can say it is whatever they want it to be. Having it independently graded AFTER the sale is just nonsense. There are too many reputable vendors around these days to ever fall for that sales pitch. Don’t do it and save yourself a lot of heartache and misery!
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
503
With an uncertified diamond, you really have no idea what you are getting or what a fair value is for the stone. Any jeweler can quote you color/clarity and they can say it is whatever they want it to be. Having it independently graded AFTER the sale is just nonsense. There are too many reputable vendors around these days to ever fall for that sales pitch. Don’t do it and save yourself a lot of heartache and misery!


Agreed. As a rough analogy: it's like buying a vehicle and the dealer will tell you what make and model you're getting after you've paid.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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5,205
Zero chance I’m buying uncertified. As others stated, it’s a waste of your time and money. You have no idea what you are buying other than a biased jeweler trying to make a buck. Hard pass!

On the flip side, check this out.

$6,000 CAD = $4,800 USD

WF ACA 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 USD wire

Gorgeous proportions. Cut for maximum beauty and fire. Crazy generous upgrade program, simply spend $1 more and trade however you please (bigger size, better color, etc). AGS certified ideal cut storm with hearts & arrows (H&A) symmetry.

You, the fiancé, your friends and family will go gaga over this “little” sparkle bomb. He will look like a diamond connoisseur and later in life when money allows you can upgrade to the 2 or 3 carat version and know your money spent today wasn’t wasted.

Couple that amazing stone with this simple, yet eloquent, 6 prong setting in white gold for $425 USD and we just met your budget restraints and gave you 10x the diamond of either one of the others and arguably a more sleek & sexy setting to boot!

 

canuk-gal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 19, 2004
Messages
22,402
Never buy an uncertified diamond. In fact, I'd go so far as to say almost never buy a diamond that hasn't been graded by GIA or AGS. If the diamond was going to grade well enough to sell at the price they're trying to sell it at, they'd get the papers. Almost every time we see people who have vastly overpaid for a diamond, it is because they bought something that was uncerted or had a report from a dodgy lab.

Always get the diamond cost and setting cost broken out separately. This will enable you to compare things apples-to-apples.

Even if you decide to get a GIA-graded J I2, at least you'll know it is actually a J I2 and not something like an M I3.

+ a billion
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,888
Zero chance I’m buying uncertified. As others stated, it’s a waste of your time and money. You have no idea what you are buying other than a biased jeweler trying to make a buck. Hard pass!

On the flip side, check this out.

$6,000 CAD = $4,800 USD

WF ACA 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 USD wire

Gorgeous proportions. Cut for maximum beauty and fire. Crazy generous upgrade program, simply spend $1 more and trade however you please (bigger size, better color, etc). AGS certified ideal cut storm with hearts & arrows (H&A) symmetry.

You, the fiancé, your friends and family will go gaga over this “little” sparkle bomb. He will look like a diamond connoisseur and later in life when money allows you can upgrade to the 2 or 3 carat version and know your money spent today wasn’t wasted.

Couple that amazing stone with this simple, yet eloquent, 6 prong setting in white gold for $425 USD and we just met your budget restraints and gave you 10x the diamond of either one of the others and arguably a more sleek & sexy setting to boot!


If I read OP's post right, $6k CAD was over budget, but $4.8k CAD was in budget.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,205
If I read OP's post right, $6k CAD was over budget, but $4.8k CAD was in budget.

Ugh. I re-read and indeed you are correct. Sorry OP, I will take another look.

Or the boyfriend could deliver some pizzas as a side hustle so you could splurge the budget. :evil2::lol-2:
 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
503
Zero chance I’m buying uncertified. As others stated, it’s a waste of your time and money. You have no idea what you are buying other than a biased jeweler trying to make a buck. Hard pass!

On the flip side, check this out.

$6,000 CAD = $4,800 USD

WF ACA 0.912 J-VS2 @ $4,252 USD wire

Gorgeous proportions. Cut for maximum beauty and fire. Crazy generous upgrade program, simply spend $1 more and trade however you please (bigger size, better color, etc). AGS certified ideal cut storm with hearts & arrows (H&A) symmetry.

You, the fiancé, your friends and family will go gaga over this “little” sparkle bomb. He will look like a diamond connoisseur and later in life when money allows you can upgrade to the 2 or 3 carat version and know your money spent today wasn’t wasted.

Couple that amazing stone with this simple, yet eloquent, 6 prong setting in white gold for $425 USD and we just met your budget restraints and gave you 10x the diamond of either one of the others and arguably a more sleek & sexy setting to boot!



Winner, Winner

Family-Favorite-Fried-Chicken_exps160790_SD2847494B02_13_9bC_RMS.jpg
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,205
4,800 CAD = $3,850 USD

Same setting and any of these 3 WF ACA I-VS2’s would work out beautifully. Each priced around $3,400 USD wire + $425 setting = $3,825 USD. :cool2:

 

DejaWiz

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 23, 2021
Messages
503
If I read OP's post right, $6k CAD was over budget, but $4.8k CAD was in budget.

OP was asking whether it would be better to go over budget and get the smaller certified diamond or slightly under budget for the uncertified diamond.

Sledge provided the best of both worlds: an ACA that's bigger than the original certified diamond mentioned and a beautiful setting that comes in around the same over-budget price of $6000 CAD.

That being said, the same setting coupled with an ACA in the H-I color range and VS2 clarity between 0.7-0.8ct will definitely come in around the (assumed) budget of $4800-5000 CAD ($3850-4011 USD)...$425 USD for the setting leaves approx $3575 USD for the diamond.

Lots of options to consider and go with, both in budget and the slightly over-budget ranges originally mentioned.
 

AllAboardTheBlingTrain

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 22, 2020
Messages
1,591
If maximising size is the goal and a slight ding on cut is acceptable; go for GIA/AGS stones within preferred parameters. A quick look on the pricescope search found some stones in the ~1.2ct category (J SI1 for eg) at ~3700 USD. I believe USA Certed is actually a Canadian vendor so maybe taxes etc would be easier with him, no harm in checking. Or order from JA or BN. You can do much better than both of the stones you posted. Ofc Whiteflash is sublime cut-wise; but if you’re hankering for size you *can* get close to the bigger size without having to take the risk of an uncerted stone. You’re better off bringing your search to a K colour GIA certified stone than an uncertified J (which could be anything).
 
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