Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Exchanging diamond dilemma

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
She was a gemologist and putting things in layman’s terms for me. She said indented natural is a fancy word for a small chip. She showed me where those are (I didn’t even see them). Then she said the thing I actually saw is definitely a chip that was caused by blunt force. We have my old diamond insured but haven’t updated the insurance with the appraisal our jeweler gave us from the new diamond. But the gemologist said that the appraisal is inaccurate at $8,500. So I have no idea what to do there.

:confused: Seems odd the appraiser is calling indented naturals ‘chips’. I didn’t think these were one in the same.

Do you have the ring insured? If not, I would suggest you either get it insured (which you’ll need an appraisal for) or don’t wear it until you do have it insured. That is the only way to protect against further loss/damage.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,492
What I find interesting is GIA is pretty good about noting indented naturals.
It is not impossible they didn't note them however.

I am really hesitant to say all is ok on a stone with a chip I have not examined in person.

That said people have worn chipped diamonds for years, decades even. with no further damage happening or damage that did happen would have happened chip or no chip.
 

bludiva

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
1,938
She was a gemologist and putting things in layman’s terms for me. She said indented natural is a fancy word for a small chip.
That's not exactly correct - it's a piece of the rough of the diamond that wasn't polished out usually to save weight from what I understand. Maybe someone will weigh in on that. The good news about that is it doesn't represent a durability risk in the same way a chip might (again, from what I understand but I'm not an expert).
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
I don’t know ... it seems to me that, if there are a whole bunch of chips on top of that one, the OPs case is stronger for saying that the jeweller misrepresented the purchase. The OP had the ring for a week, right? The jeweller can’t tell her that she did all of those chips in a week ... he might be able to say she did one, but a whole bunch? Plus the appraisal was inaccurate?

@Karl_K has stated it is not possible for GIA to not have noted the indented naturals ... I guess that means they are all chips.

Under these circumstances, I think there are grounds for the cc dispute. It involves a phone call and the completion of a form. OP, you’ll have to decide how important this is to you. It will take about 30 minutes of your fiance’s time, and then you just wait for the cc company to straighten it out.

I feel bad for you but also hope that, if you get stuck with the diamond for awhile, you learn to appreciate it for being the poor little homeless beat up diamond and one day laugh about how much drama the ring brought you.

Good luck!
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,492
@Karl_K has stated it is not possible for GIA to not have noted the indented naturals ... I guess that means they are all chips.
The way I said it was kinda goofy but what I meant is there is a possibility that GIA did not note them.
Which is the case if its the right stones and they are indeed indented naturals which a good appraiser should be able to tell the difference but sometimes it is not clear cut.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
5,667
She was a gemologist and putting things in layman’s terms for me. She said indented natural is a fancy word for a small chip. She showed me where those are (I didn’t even see them). Then she said the thing I actually saw is definitely a chip that was caused by blunt force. We have my old diamond insured but haven’t updated the insurance with the appraisal our jeweler gave us from the new diamond. But the gemologist said that the appraisal is inaccurate at $8,500. So I have no idea what to do there.
Per GIA, a chip and an indented natural are not the same thing. https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/blog/diamond-inclusions-defined/

An insurance appraisal is often inflated from actual value or cost to replace the diamond. Yes, you should have the new diamond accurately reappraised and adjust insurance accordingly. Since it’s <1 ct, it will probably be appraised for less meaning your premium should be less as well.

But I agree with others that you shore button up covering yourself against further damage/loss with a correct appraisal and insurance, then wear your ring happily. There are way more important things to stress about forthcoming ... a ring shouldn’t be one of them.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,492
That's not exactly correct - it's a piece of the rough of the diamond that wasn't polished out usually to save weight from what I understand. Maybe someone will weigh in on that. The good news about that is it doesn't represent a durability risk in the same way a chip might (again, from what I understand but I'm not an expert).
Basically an indented natural a dip or low area in the original rough that was not removed.
They can cause durability issues if they make the girdle too thin or have real thin edges.
They are a case by case basis.
 

kgizo

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 14, 2009
Messages
1,442
I understand your FI can’t deal with this due to his impending deployment. Could he add you to the CC account so that you can dispute the charge during his deployment?
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,523
The way I said it was kinda goofy but what I meant is there is a possibility that GIA did not note them.
Which is the case if its the right stones and they are indeed indented naturals which a good appraiser should be able to tell the difference but sometimes it is not clear cut.
Very unlikely for that to happen. IMO, the stone was damaged by the previous owner of this stone.
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,537
GIA didn't miss the naturals, that's HIGHLY unlikely. What's more likely is that the appraiser is incorrect, or she's using the term wrong. They are chips, not naturals. I would not accept a chipped stone. I'd either a) dispute with the CC company, or b) exchange again.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,492
Just to make a point everyone who has examined the stone in person raise their hand!
The appraiser apparently said there was one clear chip and others that appeared to be small indented naturals in their opinion.
GIA did not list naturals but if they are indeed naturals they were there when GIA graded it if it is the same stone.
The chip there is no question that it happened after GIA saw it if it is the same stone.
 

Karl_K

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
8,492
Annnnnnnnnny way the chip in itself without muddying the waters with the others is enough to support a demand for a replacement or money back.

Not that it matters really but the markings on the chip intrigue me, did the appraiser say anything about them?
 

Laila619

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
11,537
Isn't GIA the final word, so to speak? If they said there were no naturals on the report (i.e. weren't listed at all), there shouldn't be any. This is really puzzling. Will he take another exchange?
 

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
I’m still waiting to hear back from him. It’s unfortunate that my fiancé is leaving and doesn’t want to deal with a refund. So I’m hoping to exchange (yet again). I will let you know what he says! And if he lets me exchange I’ll definitely be posting the cert numbers on the thread. And I’ll be taking whatever I exchange it for to a gemologist to have it looked it and make sure it’s not round 3 of a bad diamond. It really sucks this diamond is damaged because it’s absolutely gorgeous.

Isn't GIA the final word, so to speak? If they said there were no naturals on the report (i.e. weren't listed at all), there shouldn't be any. This is really puzzling. Will he take another exchange?
 

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
It is the same stone! The gemologist also confirmed that the number on the stone matches the report. She didn’t have much to say about the markings on the chip other than that in her opinion it was done after the diamond was certified. I’ll try to post a picture of the things she suspected could be indented naturals but I’m not sure if I’m able to see them under my 30x loupe. She had it under a microscope and had the viewer on a TV screen. I asked her if I should worry about it getting worse and she said it’s definitely a possibility but as long as I’m not knocking it against hard surfaces it may not get worse.

I am very annoyed with this whole process. They asked me what jeweler I got it from but I wouldnt tell them. I did that once before and the other jeweler got VERY defensive of mine and said they’re very reputable and have been around forever. I just don’t understand how this jeweler has a good name if they’re doing stuff like this.

What are your thoughts on those markings?


Annnnnnnnnny way the chip in itself without muddying the waters with the others is enough to support a demand for a replacement or money back.

Not that it matters really but the markings on the chip intrigue me, did the appraiser say anything about them?
 
Last edited:

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,394
GIA only assess at X10 so if the indented naturals are only visible at higher magnification they wouldn't be on the report.

The chip is the one and only thing you should use as leverage without complicating it when discussing imo.
 

kmoro

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Sep 13, 2018
Messages
1,076
The way I said it was kinda goofy but what I meant is there is a possibility that GIA did not note them.
Which is the case if its the right stones and they are indeed indented naturals which a good appraiser should be able to tell the difference but sometimes it is not clear cut.
@Karl_K this makes more sense now! I’m glad I tried to paraphrase so that it could get cleared up!
 

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
So I'm planning on going there today in person because from what I remember the owner is going to Europe for a couple weeks soon. If I go in there and see that they haven't sold my old diamond should I ask for that one back while I wait for another exchange? and if they tell me they won't exchange this diamond should I try to get my old one back? I just don't know enough about diamonds to know whether I should ask for my non chipped deep diamond back or keep this one.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,364
So I'm planning on going there today in person because from what I remember the owner is going to Europe for a couple weeks soon. If I go in there and see that they haven't sold my old diamond should I ask for that one back while I wait for another exchange? and if they tell me they won't exchange this diamond should I try to get my old one back? I just don't know enough about diamonds to know whether I should ask for my non chipped deep diamond back or keep this one.
I continue to insist that you need to get a refund. I know you aren't on your FIs credit card, but you can insist anyway. Report to BBB, scathing Yelp Review, etc. You don't want either of these stones. The original was horribly cut, but this one has chips which means you really should be careful wearing it. So my solution is neither stone, no exchange, and money back.
 

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
I continue to insist that you need to get a refund. I know you aren't on your FIs credit card, but you can insist anyway. Report to BBB, scathing Yelp Review, etc. You don't want either of these stones. The original was horribly cut, but this one has chips which means you really should be careful wearing it. So my solution is neither stone, no exchange, and money back.

I agree with you but my fiancé doesn’t want a refund for whatever reason. The jeweler was very apologetic and said I can exchange again. He said the weird thing is that the chip is polished so he thinks it’s an indented natural but is still confused as to how GIA missed it. He said he’s gonna talk to the person he got the diamond from to see what happened (but that’s not my concern). I’ll probably post a new thread with the GIA numbers of the new exchange options to see which is the best.
 

Crazie4Cuts

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 9, 2014
Messages
411
Please be sure to document all conversation and meetings with this jeweler and the sales associates who were present who have been involved. Did you leave the ring with him? Or is it in your possession? If you left the ring with him, I hope you have a receipt or details about the specs that you want for this 3rd exchange and that it is documented. If you still have the ring and diamond, was it just a verbal response? I hope this all comes together for you and that your setting will accommodate the new diamond! Be sure that you have that in writing if possible!
-C4C
 

cj2be

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
140
I have the ring and I have writing!

Please be sure to document all conversation and meetings with this jeweler and the sales associates who were present who have been involved. Did you leave the ring with him? Or is it in your possession? If you left the ring with him, I hope you have a receipt or details about the specs that you want for this 3rd exchange and that it is documented. If you still have the ring and diamond, was it just a verbal response? I hope this all comes together for you and that your setting will accommodate the new diamond! Be sure that you have that in writing if possible!
-C4C
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
895
I understand your FI can’t deal with this due to his impending deployment. Could he add you to the CC account so that you can dispute the charge during his deployment?
I think the fact that the FI is the jeweler's actual customer, and the FI isn't spearheading the efforts to get either a full refund or a more appropriate diamond is exactly why this is dragging on so long. The jeweler has probably correctly sized up the situation and is confident that his "real" customer is not involved anymore. He's just giving "the little woman" the runaround, is what is happening at this point.
Even if the FI is deploying, why the h__l would he NOT want to get his full money back and put it toward a better diamond later??! A couple can be engaged without a ring. The gal could get a real nice sim stone dropped in there in the meantime. Just why is this man (FI) not irate as all get out that he's been overcharged and now possibly even deceived and ripped off on Stone #2 by this jeweler? Get the blanking money back and start over with some more reputable jeweler who doesn't misrepresent goods is what he should be doing, it seems to me.
 

bludiva

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Messages
1,938
I think the fact that the FI is the jeweler's actual customer, and the FI isn't spearheading the efforts to get either a full refund or a more appropriate diamond is exactly why this is dragging on so long. The jeweler has probably correctly sized up the situation and is confident that his "real" customer is not involved anymore. He's just giving "the little woman" the runaround, is what is happening at this point.
Even if the FI is deploying, why the h__l would he NOT want to get his full money back and put it toward a better diamond later??! A couple can be engaged without a ring. The gal could get a real nice sim stone dropped in there in the meantime. Just why is this man (FI) not irate as all get out that he's been overcharged and now possibly even deceived and ripped off on Stone #2 by this jeweler? Get the blanking money back and start over with some more reputable jeweler who doesn't misrepresent goods is what he should be doing, it seems to me.
no offense to anyone involved but to him one diamond might look just like another and he feels he tried his best and doesn't want to deal with it anymore. that leaves it to the OP to get things rectified. the vendor probably hasn't encountered too many customers who care about cut tbh, think about any random little jewelry store you go into, they never talk to you about the cut of the stone.
 

the_mother_thing

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2013
Messages
5,667
I think the fact that the FI is the jeweler's actual customer, and the FI isn't spearheading the efforts to get either a full refund or a more appropriate diamond is exactly why this is dragging on so long.
I thought about this as well, but from a slightly different angle. There very well may be reasons why the jeweler is not willing/able to refund the money, and those reasons may be privy only to the two parties to the actual original transaction - the jeweler and the buyer (OP’s FI). I’m not suggesting “the little lady” should pipe down or anything; but in the absence of a valid reason why her FI doesn’t want to address this now (and let’s face it, a military deployment isn’t a cake walk), I think it’s best left to being “his business/decision”. Yea, she “has to wear it”, but at the end of the day, it is a ring; it’s not worth creating relationship strife over. Sometimes, our expectations and reality just do not align.
 

Rubymal

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
180
no offense to anyone involved but to him one diamond might look just like another and he feels he tried his best and doesn't want to deal with it anymore. that leaves it to the OP to get things rectified. the vendor probably hasn't encountered too many customers who care about cut tbh, think about any random little jewelry store you go into, they never talk to you about the cut of the stone.
Yep, yep. I second this. It might be surprising, but there are lots of people out there they really do not care that much. My fiance spent 0 minutes researching his diamond purchase and barely even glanced at a custom calculator I made for him in excel in order to compare stones from different vendors. He was very satisfied with a cloudy diamond and would not have even thought twice about it if I hadn't voiced my opinion.
 

Rhea

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
I've never understood the line of thought that you should get or deserve a refund as long as the goods originally sold were as described. It's not a crime for a jeweler to sell you a stone which is too deep. It was up to your FI to research and know what he was buying. To be fair, he probably did, just not realising that cut was so important. To most people cut is round.

I would have a problem with the chip in the replacement diamond.

If it were me I'd say that while having the new diamond appraised a chip was noticed. You're unhappy and don't feel it was as described and would like your old diamond back. Get it back and move on with your life. Seriously. Having a poorly cut diamond is not the worst thing in the world. It's not the worst thing that will ever happen to you. It's not the most expensive poor choice you'll ever make. You sound like you're driving yourself and your FI crazy. This is not worth that. I think your jeweler was kind to even consider a trade, he didn't have to do that assuming that the original goods were sold as described and you were outside any return or exchange period.
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top