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European cut vs. round brilliant

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The3rdMan

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Have been doing research about this topic. Are the old European cuts just a bad choice compared to the brilliance of the more modern cuts? What are the pluses and minuses of these older cuts?
 

neatfreak

Super_Ideal_Rock
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They aren't a bad choice, but there IS a ton of variation in "nice" old cuts compared to just older cuts. Nice old cuts can be stunning! Some people love the charm and bigger fire flashes of old cuts while some people prefer the ideal light return of modern cuts. Just a personal preference I think.

Older cuts are much harder to buy too because they each need to be evaluated in person or with good pictures, etc. There is no "formula" for an old cut.
 

purrfectpear

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I much prefer the older cuts. In fact I prefer mine cut to old european. As neatfreak said, it''s all about opinion. Has your girlfriend had the opportunity to see any older cuts?
 

lovinsparkles

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I personally think the older cuts look more special and I prefer they way they reflect light over the super-sparkly RBs. I get the impression that it''s harder to find old cuts? Is anyone still cutting them like this or do you actually have to find an old stone?
 

neatfreak

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Date: 10/21/2008 12:25:55 PM
Author: lovinsparkles
I personally think the older cuts look more special and I prefer they way they reflect light over the super-sparkly RBs. I get the impression that it''s harder to find old cuts? Is anyone still cutting them like this or do you actually have to find an old stone?
For the most part you have to find an old stone, cutters don''t want to cut "older style cuts" because they can get more $ for a modern RB in the marketplace. It just isn''t cost effective for them.
 

neatfreak

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Date: 10/21/2008 12:35:16 PM
Author: lovinsparkles
Thanks Neatfreak. I read some online article that said because of the new demand for rose cut stones, Manak is buying newly cut rose cut diamonds from India.


http://www.modernjeweler.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=2&id=285&pageNum=1



I hope that trend continues because I really like those styles and would love to own one if I could find one in good shape and high color grade.
Very cool! I too wish more cutters would do older cuts, but then they''d probably lose some of their charm for me because they''d be "perfect" ya know?
 

kimikocat

Shiny_Rock
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You can find newly cut "old cuts." Manak is a source and there are a few other cutters out there who are doing it, as well. Leon has a yellow rose cut ring for sale right now.
 

oldminer

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There are many overseas sources of recently cut reproduction old european and old mine cuts, but not many of these sources sell direct to consumers. The fault with much of what I have seen of these reproductions is that the diamonds are left what we''d call lumpy. Overly deep and often with rather thickish girdles occasionally, too. Authentic old cuts which have the best overall appearance tended to have quite thin girdles and depths of 62 to 70ish percent. Today''s cutters, in their desire to get the most of today''s costly rough, cut these reproduction stones to retain more weight than what might lead to their best appearance. It is the economic reality. When you are lucky enough to find a really pretty old cut or reproduction old cut, you will find they have a great deal of appeal and beauty. They don''t meet the modern expectations of current ideal cut standards, but they don''t have to. For people who want to be different or to have something possibly a bit more individualized, such stones are not at all a poor choice. Their value derives from weight, color, cloarity and still cut, too. It isn''t a lot different than modern cuts when it comes to price, but availability is swcarce.
 

The3rdMan

Rough_Rock
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OK - where is a good place to find these old cut diamonds and how do they compare dollar for dollar for the same size/quality modern cut diamonds? I know that its hard to compare because its about taste of look but just wondering the general price difference.....
 

purrfectpear

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Probably the best source with a fairly large selection is Old World Diamonds. That''s where I purchased my antique cushion <------------------------------------

Adam is great to deal with and will happily answer any questions. Their pricing is the best I''ve found (and believe me, I''ve shopped). They carry OEC, OMC, and Old Cushion cuts.

Other sources are Singlestone in LA, though Ari is a bit pricey, and Erica Grace Jewels. Erica Grace used to be moderately priced, but lately they are at the high end IMO.
 

oldminer

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I can''t recommend sellers, but you''ll find asking prices not far apart from equivalent color/clarity/weight/shape modern cuts. Few old cuts bring a premium above modern cut prices although there are always some exceptions to generalizations.
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 27, 2007
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When I had an Old European Cut appraised, the appraiser (who did specialize in antique cuts) said that old cuts should be slightly discounted until they hit 3 cts, then they are on par with round brilliant prices. However, it seems that colorless-range old cuts are actually slightly more expensive than a comparable round brilliant, because they're pretty scarce. Most old cut diamonds tend to be relatively low in color. So, if you are shopping for one, hopefully you're OK with lower colors, or at least near-colorless.

I also purchased from OWD. They were definitely the best deal when I was shopping, though their prices can vary a lot. (Also, I've purchased OECs off eBay as long as the seller was reputable and had a lenient return policy, but you do have to be VERY careful if trying that route!)
 

strmrdr

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Date: 10/21/2008 4:22:51 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
When I had an Old European Cut appraised, the appraiser (who did specialize in antique cuts) said that old cuts should be slightly discounted until they hit 3 cts, then they are on par with round brilliant prices. However, it seems that colorless-range old cuts are actually slightly more expensive than a comparable round brilliant, because they''re pretty scarce. Most old cut diamonds tend to be relatively low in color. So, if you are shopping for one, hopefully you''re OK with lower colors, or at least near-colorless.


I also purchased from OWD. They were definitely the best deal when I was shopping, though their prices can vary a lot. (Also, I''ve purchased OECs off eBay as long as the seller was reputable and had a lenient return policy, but you do have to be VERY careful if trying that route!)
The higher colors have been recut over the years by the boatload leaving the lower colors on the market.
 

strmrdr

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Date: 10/21/2008 3:59:21 PM
Author: oldminer
I can''t recommend sellers, but you''ll find asking prices not far apart from equivalent color/clarity/weight/shape modern cuts. Few old cuts bring a premium above modern cut prices although there are always some exceptions to generalizations.
I looked into this and fresh cut precision oec would have to sell for the same price as h&a RB''s to be economical to cut.
Which is one reason they aren''t being cut.
 

HeartingDiamonds

Brilliant_Rock
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Date: 10/21/2008 4:42:05 PM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 10/21/2008 3:59:21 PM

Author: oldminer

I can't recommend sellers, but you'll find asking prices not far apart from equivalent color/clarity/weight/shape modern cuts. Few old cuts bring a premium above modern cut prices although there are always some exceptions to generalizations.
I looked into this and fresh cut precision oec would have to sell for the same price as h&a RB's to be economical to cut.

Which is one reason they aren't being cut.

Ditto. In looking into cutting cushions in the antique style, this was exactly what I found from the cutters we met with.

I would suggest that you go shopping with your GF to determine what she really likes - modern cuts or antiques.

As far as pricing goes, it's difficult to compare prices online unless one has the specific diamonds in front of them for comparison. While one vendor's prices may initially seem more aggressive than another's based on stats alone, there simply isn't enough information available to make such broad generalizations regarding pricing. Solution: If you are interested in several stones from different vendors, have them sent to you at the same time so you can make an apples to apples comparison, and let your eyes be the ultimate judge from that point.

Much like modern cut diamonds, there is also a premium for antique diamonds with beautiful makes, and discounted pricing for the less desirable cuts (which is NOT to say that great pricing cannot be had for beatifully cut stones, of course).
 

strmrdr

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Date: 10/21/2008 5:09:22 PM
Author: HeartingDiamonds


Ditto. In looking into cutting cushions in the antique style, this was exactly what I found from the cutters we met with.


I would suggest that you go shopping with your GF to determine what she really likes - modern cuts or antiques.


As far as pricing goes, it's difficult to compare prices online unless one has the specific diamonds in front of them for comparison. While one vendor's prices may initially seem more aggressive than another's based on stats alone, there simply isn't enough information available to make such broad generalizations regarding pricing. Solution: If you are interested in several stones from different vendors, have them sent to you at the same time so you can make an apples to apples comparison, and let your eyes be the ultimate judge from that point.


Much like modern cut diamonds, there is also a premium for antique diamonds with beautiful makes, and discounted pricing for the less desirable cuts (which is NOT to say that great pricing cannot be had for beatifully cut stones, of course).
What really stinks about the rough supply situation is that having 1 or 2 cut isn't a problem but having a few hundred a year cut is a major problem.
Its more than the small cutters can get rough for but not enough for the big boys to mess with.

There is a market for several different designs in the 100-500 a year range but no one to cut them.
 
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