etiquette question

[ladykemma]

twice in the same week i have been confronted about my supposed rude manners. i'm confused. I'm really confused because I am a good manners freak.

is there a new etiquette rule about automatic doors? i merrily followed some people thorugh automatic doors, smiling, in good mood, lalalalalala, at the doctors office. after we went thorugh, the woman who went in first whipped around and said "YOU"RE WELCOME!". i looked at her, confused.

and again at the grocery store, exact same scenario yesterday. i went in through the automatic doors after some guy, minding my own business, who turned around and confronted me about not saying thank you. what for? he didn't let me go first....

I have to admit, i told him off.

ok, please fill me in. what is my part in this? is there some new etiquette rule I'm not aware of?

 

[poptart]

I''m not aware of any rules about automatic doors. Why would the woman expect you to thank her for walking in front of the door and having it open? She didn''t have to do anything... I don''t get it either. Did you ask the man exactly what you were supposed to be thanking him for? Because I would have out of total confusion.

*M*

 

[sumbride]

these are the doors that open with motion sensors, right? I have no idea why you would need to thank anybody in that scenario!! Bizarre!!!

Maybe they feel like only THEY have the power to open these doors? If that''s the case, I would think they''d need a doctor more than a thank you.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 11/19/2006 11:31:42 AM
Author: poptart
I''m not aware of any rules about automatic doors. Why would the woman expect you to thank her for walking in front of the door and having it open? She didn''t have to do anything... I don''t get it either. Did you ask the man exactly what you were supposed to be thanking him for? Because I would have out of total confusion.

*M*

it all happened so fast i am not really sure.... after he confronted me about my supposed behavior, i told him "where to go" in not so nice words. it would have been different if he had let me go first....and of course i would have beamed a thank you.

i don''t get it . i am chalking it up to the holidays and people are in foul moods. me included.

the woman gave off elementary schoolteacher vibes, and could shame a kid or adult to his/her knees in a millisecond. i definitely felt shamed but was able to throw it off .

 

[poptart]

Well, it certainly is a mystery! And you are right, ladykemma, the holidays make some people downright nasty. I''m afraid to go shopping sometimes for fear of getting sassed at or run over. Although usually it''s the latter. I just never knew that people and automatic doors could create such hostility!

*M*

 

[VegasAngel]

The only reason I can see them saying something is if you tried to bum rush through the door. Were you walking fast maybe? Still, the only reason I say something is if you see me right behind you & let the door slam in my face; especially when I am pushing a stroller

 

[Dee*Jay]

That's crazy! It would be one thing if someone held a door open for you or allowed you go to first in a revolving door or something like that. But an automatic door - ???

I don't know if the reaction of those people is brought on by the frazzle of the holidays or just the general decline of manners (and often also good common sense) in our society, but that is indeed a topic for another thread LOL.

No, Lady K, you are not rude or crazy. And if you do find a new book on etiquette let me know because until then I'm not thanking anyone for walking through an automatic door in front of me either!

 

[ladykemma]

what is a bum rush?

Date: 11/19/2006 11:53:40 AM
Author: VegasAngel
The only reason I can see them saying something is if you tried to bum rush through the door. Were you walking fast maybe? Still, the only reason I say something is if you see me right behind you & let the door slam in my face; especially when I am pushing a stroller

 

[poptart]

Date: 11/19/2006 11:56:54 AM
Author: ladykemma
what is a bum rush?

Date: 11/19/2006 11:53:40 AM
Author: VegasAngel
The only reason I can see them saying something is if you tried to bum rush through the door. Were you walking fast maybe? Still, the only reason I say something is if you see me right behind you & let the door slam in my face; especially when I am pushing a stroller

It''s when you are walking really fast and closely behind someone kind of pushing them to go faster.

*M*

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 11/19/2006 11:58:26 AM
Author: poptart

Date: 11/19/2006 11:56:54 AM
Author: ladykemma
what is a bum rush?

Date: 11/19/2006 11:53:40 AM
Author: VegasAngel
The only reason I can see them saying something is if you tried to bum rush through the door. Were you walking fast maybe? Still, the only reason I say something is if you see me right behind you & let the door slam in my face; especially when I am pushing a stroller

It''s when you are walking really fast and closely behind someone kind of pushing them to go faster.

*M*

no i wasn''t in a hurry. wasn''t late. just walkin'' though the door...

 

[MINE!!]

Actually the man made a huge Faux Pas IMO. How dare he not be a gentleman and let you walk through first. UNBELEIVEABLE!!!

I have told my daughter time and again to let a man hold the door for them and to let the people in the store (grocery personal) help you carry your groceries to the car and never pass down assistance to pull out your chair, etc etc.

My oldest at first had the response that it women did not need "men" top do things like that for them and it was degrading. AFTER I picked my chin up off the floor I told her that it was about a man respecting a woman. And that there was more power in having a man do it for us than to have to do it ourselves. I think she gets it now.

 

[VegasAngel]

I went off into my own little vent, sorry. I dont know why they would say something unless you hurried in front of them to get through the door, or maybe they stopped to let you through first and you didnt thank them? People are mean no matter what the season.

 

[Mara]

lol mine i don't know if i agree re: it giving us ladies more 'power' to have the MEN do things for us. (that sounds like it could be a can of worms with mentioning power and men in the same sentence to an impressionable young female mind) i am more like your daughter. i could care less if a man opens a door or pulls a chair. i can do it myself so it's typically the last thing on my mind. greg does it for me because that's how he was raised, and it's fine but i never expect it. i also don't need to be taken care of by a man or relish having power over a man...i loved being independent and doing it on my own.

the whole groceries thing made me laugh. i HATE having people help me to my car with groceries. unless i am a total invalid, i can do it myself!! why would i take the time out of someone's busy day when they could be helping someone else, to help fully physically able me to the car? i know it's tough to push the cart all by my little wee self, but i somehow manage.

 

[4bugzinarug]

style="WIDTH: 99%; HEIGHT: 163px">Date: 11/19/2006 12:29:19 PM
Author: Mara
lol mine i don''t know if i agree re: it giving us ladies more ''power'' to have the MEN do things for us. (that sounds like it could be a can of worms with mentioning power and men in the same sentence to an impressionable young female mind) i am more like your daughter. i could care less if a man opens a door or pulls a chair. i can do it myself so it''s typically the last thing on my mind. greg does it for me because that''s how he was raised, and it''s fine but i never expect it. i also don''t need to be taken care of by a man or relish having power over a man...i loved being independent and doing it on my own.

the whole groceries thing made me laugh. i HATE having people help me to my car with groceries. unless i am a total invalid, i can do it myself!! why would i take the time out of someone''s busy day when they could be helping someone else, to help fully physically able me to the car? i know it''s tough to push the cart all by my little wee self, but i somehow manage.

LOL! Don''t you just love it when the checkout clerk asks if you need help carrying ONE BAG!! I guess they have to ask *everyone* if they need help, but most of the time I find this very amusing!

However, if I am shopping with both of my rowdy monkeys in tow, I do take them up on helping us out to the car. This lets me help get the kids into their carseats, get buckled, etc. I have some pain issues - so some days I really appreciate that extra help when having kids + several bags + gallons & other heavier items

If I am by myself I will generally get the bags on my own. Now if only they would come home with me and haul all those groceries up three flights of stairs!

As for the OP ... that behavior is truly baffling! I have no idea what their problem is. All you can do is keep being your normal good mannered self and try not to let it get to you

 

[Mara]

4b...yeah i think they must ask pretty much everyone (or every female)...but yep when i have like two small bags and they are like do you need help to your car, i always have to stop myself from giving them the stink eye...it''s like what? if i can move my arms i can carry my two bags, girlfriend!! of course yes if i had like 3 kids and wasn''t quite as spry, that''s another thing, and that''s what i mean about other people probably needing their help way more than amazon me taking up their time!!

 

[Kaleigh]

I think it''s crazy. I mean they are automatic doors, that open automatically and you walked in after them. It'' not like holding a door open and not thanking someone. Sheesh!!! People are so weird!!!

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 11/19/2006 12:29:19 PM
Author: Mara
lol mine i don't know if i agree re: it giving us ladies more 'power' to have the MEN do things for us. (that sounds like it could be a can of worms with mentioning power and men in the same sentence to an impressionable young female mind) i am more like your daughter. i could care less if a man opens a door or pulls a chair. i can do it myself so it's typically the last thing on my mind. greg does it for me because that's how he was raised, and it's fine but i never expect it. i also don't need to be taken care of by a man or relish having power over a man...i loved being independent and doing it on my own.

I was actually thinking MINE's post was intended to be sarcastic? Now I'm confused!! (And maybe didn't get enough sleep last night...)

I guess I've never thought about it in terms of "power" either. I appreciate when somebody holds a door for me, but I don't really see it as a man vs. woman thing... more of a "respect for other human beings" thing. For example, I would typically hold the door for anyone coming through after me, regardless of sex. Or if an elderly or disabled person gets on the bus, I am more than happy to offer them my seat... male OR female. Although I do remember going to college in Virginia and being dumbfounded by the men that would hurry ahead of you just to hold the door... it was sweet, but very disconcerting to my northern sensibilities! Not to mention the most chivalrous "southern gentlemen" were the ones in the fraternity most known for objectifying women as future trophy wife material, so I guess there is sometimes a trade-off.

Although that was just my experience (and on a college campus, not quite the real world), so I certainly can't generalize it to the entire south. But it does seem like it could have a lot to do with part of the country?

As for LK's situation, I'm baffled... unless they felt she was too close behind them and violating their personal space? But with an automatic door I'm not sure why they would possibly expect a thank you... very odd.

 

[MINE!!]

LOL... the "power" comment was a bit more Tongue in Cheek than it was interpreted. It was a response more to my daughter beleiving that she was somehow "giving in" to a man and it being degrading, than allowing a man to do these things for us. I was raised in the south where men always held the door, or it was frowned upon by both men and women. When we went to the store the other day, a little boy... about 11 held the door for my daughter and I (without prompting)... I just wanted to hug his mom and dad for rising such a little respectful gentleman.


I suppose the way you "carry" yourself has something to do with it as well. Even when I lived up north there were gentleman that held the door (less than in the south however) I also found, working in the international fuirniture businss that most of these men were very respectful of women, i.e. holding the door, pulling out chairs, very mannered and respectful.

I personally am very frazzled and beleive it to be EXTREMELY rude NOT to hold the door for a woman, so I think it is just different regions. But I think it rolls over with everything. I remember seeing a college kid driving past a funeral caravan. My husband, being Canadian, did not understand when I yelled at the kid and said "What the Heck are you do doing!@!!!!!" Not until someone in the line rolled down her window and thanked me.

 

[codex57]

I would have pointedly looked at them, paused, then looked up at the sensor and said "thank you" to the sensor. That''s retarded. Ok, they''re retarded. It''s one thing to hold the door open for someone. It''s another to expect gratitude for being ahead of someone. You don''t do squat when you trigger an automatic door.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

MINE, just wanted to say as another southerner, that I always appreciate men who act like gentlemen. Just last week when I was at the airport and had trouble lifting my very heavy luggage up the steps of the shuttle bus, a man came over and lifted it for me, and he did it again when I got off the shuttle. I have been in the same situation where men just sat and watched me struggle to do it (the lifting it up is the hardest! I had books in it, among other things!). So I do not take it for granted, but I think it''s very sad when men do not show respect for women and when younger adults do not show respect and offer help to elderly people. And I am also very thankful that I live in a town where cars still stop for a funeral procession.

Back to topic, Lady Kemma, I am clueless as to what the problem was in your situation!

 

[laine]

To me, the holding doors/lifting bags/etc thing is much more about courtesy. Yes, I expect the person in front of me to be polite and hold the door for me, regardless of gender. If I''m struggling with a heavy bag, I would be annoyed at any able-bodied person who watched me struggle without helping. And on a bus, I''m give up my seat to the pregnant lady, not wait around for a man to do it. Rudeness drives me absolutely crazy, but I expect politeness from everyone, of both genders and all ages.

I appreciate courtesy, but waiting around for a man to do these things does not make me any better. If he''s standing there to help, great, but I''m not going to wait. I picture myself at a store with the double set of doors. The guy opens the first door and lets me in. Do I just stand at the second and wait for him to run up to open it also? No, I let him hold the first for me, then open the second and hold it for him.

As for the funeral procession, I personally had never seen one till I was a junior in college (didn''t attend any, didn''t live in town to see it). If I didn''t see the hearse, I''m not sure I would realize exactly what was going on and know to act in a respectful manner. Not to excuse others'' poor behavior, but it could be ignorance rather than disrespect.

 

[ladykemma]

Date: 11/19/2006 2:25:16 PM
Author: codex57
I would have pointedly looked at them, paused, then looked up at the sensor and said ''thank you'' to the sensor. That''s retarded. Ok, they''re retarded. It''s one thing to hold the door open for someone. It''s another to expect gratitude for being ahead of someone. You don''t do squat when you trigger an automatic door.

i always think of better responses 24 hours later.... haha

 

[strmrdr]

hmm that is strange...

I always hold the door for anyone who is walking behind me man, Lady or child.
But expecting thanks for an automatic door thats just wierd....

 

[TravelingGal]

That''s ridiculous. What next...do I have to start thanking toilets for flushing for me?

 

[Kaleigh]

Date: 11/19/2006 4:40:43 PM
Author: TravelingGal
That''s ridiculous. What next...do I have to start thanking toilets for flushing for me?

ROTFLMAO. Good one!!!

 

[codex57]

Date: 11/19/2006 4:40:43 PM
Author: TravelingGal
That's ridiculous. What next...do I have to start thanking toilets for flushing for me?

Hahaha. I can just picture those two people thanking the automatic toilet for flushing after them. Especially the guy thanking a urinal with every other guy glaring at him cuz speaking in the bathroom is forbidden, let alone talkign to a toilet.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 11/19/2006 2:07:11 PM
Author: MINE!!
I remember seeing a college kid driving past a funeral caravan. My husband, being Canadian, did not understand when I yelled at the kid and said ''What the Heck are you do doing!@!!!!!'' Not until someone in the line rolled down her window and thanked me.

Why wouldn''t your husband understand that it is rude to pass a funeral caravan because he is Canadian?

 

[hlmr]

ladykemma, you did absolutely nothing wrong! It was they who were rude, and how bizarre of them to think because they made the automatic door open, that you should be so very appreciative!

 

[Kaleigh]

Haha here''s an experiment, next time you walk through an automatic door behind someone thank them and see if they think you are crazy!!!

JK!!!

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 11/19/2006 11:53:40 AM
Author: VegasAngel
The only reason I can see them saying something is if you tried to bum rush through the door. Were you walking fast maybe? Still, the only reason I say something is if you see me right behind you & let the door slam in my face; especially when I am pushing a stroller

Every time I can, I hold doors for people and I do it gladly and I don''t even need a "thank you" just a smile or nod or even eye contact and a pleasant face are great. But I admit I''ve gotten pissy in the past... when a group of people is going through and no one even acknowledges that I am not actually employed as a door holder, I''ve just let the door go and close on them - then they give me dirty looks but I just shrug and smile. Not my job! I ALWAYS hold the door for women with strollers because I remember those days and they ALWAYS thank me profusely because, well, so many people are unconcerned with the plight of push doors and strollers lol As for automatic doors, no clue what the issue is!!!