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oldruby

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
6
Hi-
I am hoping to buy a ruby but trying to decide between two pieces.
One is from an estate ring and certified by the AGL as classic burma, red, unheated "with faint traditional clarity enhancement."
and "traditional clarity enhancement can include oiling"

The second ruby is also burma, not estate, red color, certified unheated and untreated by the AGL and looks slightly clearer.

The salesperson is the store said he would rather buy the estate if it were him (perhaps because he owns it and the other stone he got through a 3rd party). They are about the same size, the estate is 1.33 carats and the other is 1.19 carats.'

I like the idea of the estate but I'm not sure about the clarity enhancement.

Also, not sure how to evaluate color or clarity except with my eyes--both are marked "red" on the report and there is no remark on clarity.

Price: the estate stone is $6000 and the other is $7000. The dealer tells me he can give me a better deal on the estate because he owns it and doesn't need to pay a 3rd party. But "he would sell me either and he would get the estate if it were for his wife."

Any thoughts and suggestions are much appreciated!
 
This my sound both crazy and blunt but I would buy neither and find a new jeweler. Does he say specifically what the minor clarity enhancement is? (And the corollary, do you ask him directly what the clarity enhancement is?) His saying it is what he would buy for his wife doesnt tell you at all what his criteria for what to buy for his wife would be. It seems like a meaningless detail intended to sound meaningful and important. And it seems like a deceit contrived so he can maintain a veneer of innocence. Were it discovered he could say he neither lied nor intended to mislead but that he is not responsible for your assumptions and misunderstanding. Are both stones already set or is it only the estate one? Your budget is fine for you to get a nice stone with no treatments, with and unambiguous lab cert. Here are some gorgeous unheated untreated rubies well within your budget that you could have a custom setting made for and still be within your budget.
http://www.naturalunheatedruby.com/1-01---1-49
 
Thanks--I agree, he is being salesy about the wife comment. I was reading what the report from the AGL said though. Is that not reputable?

Color description: Red
Shape:
Cushion
Cutting Style: Mixed Cut
origin: Classic Burma (Myanmar)
Enhancement
heat enhancement: None
Degree: N/A
type: N/A
additional: clarity
degree: faint
type: traditional
stability index: very good to good
comments: Non heated rubies are scarce. Rubies are commenly heated to modify their color and appearance. Traditional materials used to clarity enhance rubies include various oils to reduce the visibility of fissures. N/A represents Not Applicable.
 
AGL is certainly reputable. It's just that Im not an expert so the thing about oiling sounded strange to me. Emeralds yes, rubies Ive never heard. Now that doesnt mean anything either really since Im no expert it could be a common thing that I naturally wouldnt know. But I just hate seeing treatments portrayed and benign or traditional. I have no holidays celebrating the tradition of treating lesser stones so they can pass as better stones. Though I suppose if we did, we would eat a wolf stuffed in a sheep in the style of Turduckin.
Have you been looking for a ruby for long? Is this the final round? Are you in love with these two stones, do they whisper to you? Do you have other criteria of your own that we don't know about?
 
I don't guess I'm in love with the stones. But there's something that feels right about having an estate stone...it will go in an existing estate setting. But I'm the type that second guesses everything so I don't know if it WOULD feel just right. It's so hard to know who to trust! I did want something unheated--I also didn't know about oiling and it seems off. I may call the AGL tomorrow and ask for clarification (if they aren't closed due to the nyc blizzard!) Thank you for your thoughts and kindness....
 
I can't really add anything about the two stones you are looking at...but I can tell you that Richard Wise has a gorgeous 1.3ct Burma Ruby with no enhancements up for sale on this website. I was seriously considering it at one point. I have never purchased from Richard but he comes HIGHLY recommended here on PS. I would contact him- perhaps he has someting in your budget.

Direct link to ruby: http://www.rwwise.com/products/id%7C1709

Ruby.jpg
 
Sarah I was just on his site looking at that same stone and had the same thought! I Suspect that stone might be a bit beyond the OPs stated budget, but second guessing is still guessing and the surest way to find out is just to ask.
 
Nothing new to add:
1. If you are indeed interested in the estate stone, please call AGL to clarify the enhancement if it is oil only.
2. For the price, I'd rather something totally untreated.
3. Lastly but most importantly, how is the colour quality? Is it not provided on the AGL report? Sounds more like this is the AGL brief and not the Prestige report?
 
You are all exceptionally kind and helpful. Color is not provided on the report, simply red--so I am going to inquire about a prestige report. I'll also look into the stones linked. I will keep you posted--thank you!
 
Hmn. The AGL doc says that it is a prestige report but there is no clarity or color grade on it. The AGL office seem to be closed today due to the storm. I wonder if I'm missing a piece or if they only looked at the stone for origin and enhancement.
 
I heard about oiling of rubies from Christopher Smith the president of AGL directly at a gemmology conference I attended recently. I personally asked him about the use of oil and how wide-spread it was and if it was commonly disclosed. He said that it was remarkably widespread, was not a new treatment but like emeralds has been done for many, many years but that not all labs disclosed this kind of enhancement - AGL being one that does.

He also showed slides of rubies before they were 'de-oiled' and after and it was quite an impressive difference though not nearly as impressive as what happens when you remove lead-glass fillers!

Hope that helps.

IMO, if you are not in love with either stone then keep looking, otherwise if all other things are equal I would go for the new stone not the old one.
 
Thanks Pandora and all. This is definitely all a learning experience.
 
You've had some great advice but the one thing that I would add is that you MUST see both stones side by side. "Red" to one person can be "pink" to another (irrespective of what the lab report says). Some people also prefer a pinkish/red, others like a purplish/red and both are acceptable in rubies and it's then personal preference. The other thing is that you need to evaluate the clarity and performance of both stones (again, comparing the two is a good idea).

The AGL report sounds fine and I'm not sure I would bother getting it looked at again (if you go for the estate ruby). Does the other ruby have a report? If not and when you see it, it performs better, then make the sale conditional upon a lab report agreeing that it is purely unheated with no enhancements (or traditional oiling if you're fine with that).

Lastly, don't let the jeweller sway you. This is a lot of money to part with and YOU have to be happy that you've got the right ruby for you!
 
Just wanted to add...

Laboratories issue 'reports' not 'certificates'. They do not guarantee anything, they merely state their opinion at that date using the technology currently available.

It may well be that in the future technology will be able to detect enhancements that today we cannot. Gemstone treaters are also no slouches - for most of them it's their full-time occupation. They are not some mom & pop joint heating the odd stone in the back garden. As such they are always searching for new ways of enhancing stones (a blue sapphire may have been heated up to SEVEN times before it reaches a retailer - after 7 times it won't improve anymore) and the labs have to try and play catch-up all the time.
 
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