Estate ruby advice

[AntiqueJewelryQuest]

My partner and I are looking for an engagement ring, and I have my heart set an antique ruby or red spinel ring. I have found a few options that I like, but I am new to jewelry buying and am not sure what’s reasonable in terms of price or what I should look out for when it comes to ruby quality. We have a budget of around $10k.

I found a few options on 1st Dibs that I like:

GIA Heated Burma Ruby Oval and Baguette Diamond Ring in Platinum For Sale at 1stDibs

For Sale on 1stDibs - Beautiful GIA 2.03 ct. Burma purplish red ruby oval with 0.47 ct. good quality white diamond baguettes. Handmade in platinum. Ring size 9.25. Comes with

www.1stdibs.com

Garrards and Co Art Deco 2.09ct Ruby and Diamond Platinum Ring For Sale at 1stDibs | rooringco, ruby and co, roo ring co

For Sale on 1stDibs - This fabulous Art Deco ruby and diamond three stone ring is sure to make an absolutely stunning engagement ring. This ring is accompanied by a certificate

www.1stdibs.com

Do these seem like a good value? Is it customary to negotiate price with sellers, and if so, how much is reasonable to ask off? Are there any concerns or questions that you would ask before making a purchase?

 

[Autumn in New England]

Congrats on your upcoming engagement and welcome to the boards! Based solely on the images and info provided, I vastly prefer the second ruby (Mozambique). It's color, clarity, and cut (comparatively smaller window) look a lot better. Plus, it's untreated. The first ruby (Burma) has a huge window, no sparkle or glow, is quite purple, and looks rather dark/dull. It's also heated/clarity enhanced. I would definitely make an offer (as is customary on most online marketplaces). Be sure you have a generous return policy just in case there is anything you dislike in person. Good luck!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I also like the second and as an added bonus it looks like an authentic art deco setting which would have been hand made. The side stone are not baguettes as the listing states, but in fact they are elongated carre cuts (it is not unusual for even knowledgeable vendors to mislabel these cuts, they truly are rare). Notice how the diamonds have pointed not clipped corners? Carres. Much more rare and special. They are large and between those and the setting there is a lot of value. I’d wager replicating that ring would be $4k at least from an expert.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’d start offering 20% below asking. It looks like there is good documentation so other than affirming the return policy you are good to go.

 

[Autumn in New England]

I also like the second and as an added bonus it looks like an authentic art deco setting which would have been hand made. The side stone are not baguettes as the listing states, but in fact they are elongated carre cuts (it is not unusual for even knowledgeable vendors to mislabel these cuts, they truly are rare). Notice how the diamonds have pointed not clipped corners? Carres. Much more rare and special. They are large and between those and the setting there is a lot of value. I’d wager replicating that ring would be $4k at least from an expert.

How fascinating! I had to look it up. So carres are basically square (not octagonal) step-cut diamonds... whereas baguettes are rectangular, asschers have clipped corners, and princesses are brilliant-cut. This is how my brain processes new things. lol Now I like the second ring even more!

 

[Mreader]

I am pretty obsessed with the second one! That is a beautiful ring. Plus, it’s completely untreated.You might also want to try to find out who the original vendor is because vendors go through first dibs to advertise their things, but first dibs of course charges for that, and so it would be more expensive going through first dibs than if you found the original vendor.

 

[Dreamer_D]

How fascinating! I had to look it up. So carres are basically square (not octagonal) step-cut diamonds... whereas baguettes are rectangular, asschers have clipped corners, and princesses are brilliant-cut. This is how my brain processes new things. lol Now I like the second ring even more!

Yes they are all related because they are step cuts, but they differ in having clipped corners (Asscher and Emerald cut) which creates a windmill pattern, or pointed corners (baguette and carre) which creates right angles facet meets. They also differ in the number of facets. Carre has fewer facets in the pavilion than the others and it creates a very blocky look and a sort of pyramid pattern. I just collected my first carres and they are a very unique and interesting cut! Super bright, super blocky, really mesmerizing to look into the way the facets direct your eye to the center. Carres are a unique niche cut that was always pretty rare compared to the others. They waste a lot of rough and require very. Very clean rough because they don’t disguise inclusions at all. So this ring having 0.50ct of carres is very unusual. Usually we see much smaller stones.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I am pretty obsessed with the second one! That is a beautiful ring. Plus, it’s completely untreated.You might also want to try to find out who the original vendor is because vendors go through first dibs to advertise their things, but first dibs of course charges for that, and so it would be more expensive going through first dibs than if you found the original vendor.

This is really excellent advice!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Yes they are all related because they are step cuts, but they differ in having clipped corners (Asscher and Emerald cut) which creates a windmill pattern, or pointed corners (baguette and carre) which creates right angles facet meets. They also differ in the number of facets. Carre has fewer facets in the pavilion than the others and it creates a very blocky look and a sort of pyramid pattern. I just collected my first carres and they are a very unique and interesting cut! Super bright, super blocky, really mesmerizing to look into the way the facets direct your eye to the center. Carres are a unique niche cut that was always pretty rare compared to the others. They waste a lot of rough and require very. Very clean rough because they don’t disguise inclusions at all. So this ring having 0.50ct of carres is very unusual. Usually we see much smaller stones.

These are going to be my new obsession! I love rare (especially old) diamond cuts. I just bought my first pair of OMC's to flank a center stone. Not rare, necessarily, but other than my OEC studs, they're the only old cuts I have! Thank you for this info... never heard of them before today!!

 

[Dreamer_D]

These are going to be my new obsession! I love rare (especially old) diamond cuts. I just bought my first pair of OMC's to flank a center stone. Not rare, necessarily, but other than my OEC studs, they're the only old cuts I have! Thank you for this info... never heard of them before today!!

Look towards the end of my most recent project thread and there’s lots of pictures and convo about carres! They are my current obsession too.

And please post pictures of your OMCs somewhere. I love those cuts.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Look towards the end of my most recent project thread and there’s lots of pictures and convo about carres! They are my current obsession too.

And please post pictures of your OMCs somewhere. I love those cuts.

Hopefully OP won't mind (if we haven't already scared her off... lol) that I've gone off on a tangent here. Just looked at your carre thread. Dreamer, those diamonds are phenomenal! I'm dying to know what you're up to now with DK!!

Here is the OMC pair... again, please excuse the threadjack, OP.

 

[Pomelo]

I'll defer to the ruby and diamond experts here that the second ring is the better pick... and also add that Garrard are a very historic jewellery house in the UK. They made Princess Diana's engagement ring!

Many moons ago, I went to an event at Garrard's in London and they are the ones doing touch-ups for royal jewels when things need fixing. It was an excellent evening with lots of champagne and canapes, so sadly I don't remember much else

Also, I did a quick google and the original seller/listing is here: https://dandelion-antiques.co.uk/pr...ujVXQEvb5EXSlDAYv4y9mu2QJfVAcisH6aV1zD1lL7fDu

 

[LightBright]

I adore the second ring. Very special for all of the reasons mentioned above!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I'll defer to the ruby and diamond experts here that the second ring is the better pick... and also add that Garrard are a very historic jewellery house in the UK. They made Princess Diana's engagement ring!

Many moons ago, I went to an event at Garrard's in London and they are the ones doing touch-ups for royal jewels when things need fixing. It was an excellent evening with lots of champagne and canapes, so sadly I don't remember much else

Also, I did a quick google and the original seller/listing is here: https://dandelion-antiques.co.uk/pr...ujVXQEvb5EXSlDAYv4y9mu2QJfVAcisH6aV1zD1lL7fDu

Wow that does make it special.

I hope OP comes back but either way this thread has affirmed for me personally, if/when the time comes for me to buy a substantial ruby or sapphire, I think I will also look for an antique. The history and provenance is so special!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Hopefully OP won't mind (if we haven't already scared her off... lol) that I've gone off on a tangent here. Just looked at your carre thread. Dreamer, those diamonds are phenomenal! I'm dying to know what you're up to now with DK!!

Here is the OMC pair... again, please excuse the threadjack, OP.

Wow! Are these natural or lab? They look white and so well matched!

 

[Mreader]

Wow! Are these natural or lab? They look white and so well matched!

Wow, those are so white! Are they going with your emerald?!

 

[Mreader]

I'll defer to the ruby and diamond experts here that the second ring is the better pick... and also add that Garrard are a very historic jewellery house in the UK. They made Princess Diana's engagement ring!

Many moons ago, I went to an event at Garrard's in London and they are the ones doing touch-ups for royal jewels when things need fixing. It was an excellent evening with lots of champagne and canapes, so sadly I don't remember much else

Also, I did a quick google and the original seller/listing is here: https://dandelion-antiques.co.uk/pr...ujVXQEvb5EXSlDAYv4y9mu2QJfVAcisH6aV1zD1lL7fDu

I knew a PS sleuth would find the original vendor ha ha. I forgot they were in the UK so if OP is in the US, I don’t know if maybe it would be easier to do first dibs because of tariff stuff? I really don’t know though.

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wow! Are these natural or lab? They look white and so well matched!

Wow, those are so white! Are they going with your emerald?!

Thanks, guys! I'm really a diamond novice, so I did my best. They are natural and GIA certified. I've been spoiled by Inken and her super white F or better diamonds. But I just don't think they exist in this cut? G was the best I could find. They are going with a different gem.

 

[voce]

Go for the second one if it's narrowed to these two. Buy for beauty, not origin. Hope your proposal goes well!

 

[AntiqueJewelryQuest]

Wow, thank you all for your insight and advice!! This is so helpful. I made a virtual appointment to take a closer look at the second ring! I may also keep an eye out for other options. As one poster mentioned, I’m in the US and the second ring is in the UK, so I’d have to consider the tariff impact on the price. Thanks again for the great info and suggestions! I’ll keep you posted!

 

[Autumn in New England]

Wow, thank you all for your insight and advice!! This is so helpful. I made a virtual appointment to take a closer look at the second ring! I may also keep an eye out for other options. As one poster mentioned, I’m in the US and the second ring is in the UK, so I’d have to consider the tariff impact on the price. Thanks again for the great info and suggestions! I’ll keep you posted!

Good luck!

 

[Pomelo]

Wow, thank you all for your insight and advice!! This is so helpful. I made a virtual appointment to take a closer look at the second ring! I may also keep an eye out for other options. As one poster mentioned, I’m in the US and the second ring is in the UK, so I’d have to consider the tariff impact on the price. Thanks again for the great info and suggestions! I’ll keep you posted!

UK products have 20% VAT on them, you can ask if the seller can sell it to you ex-VAT if you’re paying for duties in the US?

Not sure how it works but maybe worth asking!

The other option is to save on tariffs and book a flight to the UK! You can make a trip of it

 

[LightBright]

Wow that does make it special.

I hope OP comes back but either way this thread has affirmed for me personally, if/when the time comes for me to buy a substantial ruby or sapphire, I think I will also look for an antique. The history and provenance is so special!

When I said all of the reasons above I also meant DreamerD’s commentary on the cut of the side stones. That also makes the ruby ring all the more interesting. I hope the color of the unheated Mozambique ruby is as beautiful as it appears! Good luck AntiqueJewelryQuesr!

 

[LightBright]

Wow, thank you all for your insight and advice!! This is so helpful. I made a virtual appointment to take a closer look at the second ring! I may also keep an eye out for other options. As one poster mentioned, I’m in the US and the second ring is in the UK, so I’d have to consider the tariff impact on the price. Thanks again for the great info and suggestions! I’ll keep you posted!

I don’t think I’ve ever seen an Art Deco ruby ring like this one. It’s very rare to see Art Deco ruby rings, most of them are Victorian or Georgian. This one is Mozambique ruby. You won’t find anything remotely comparable in “more structured” hand forged platinum but might find antique Burmese rubies in yellow gold Victorian or silver with yellow gold Georgian. You might consider what Era of styles you most prefer. And also which origin of ruby.

I guess what Im saying is you won’t find anything like this for a while. Asking them to work with you on VAT is a good strategy.

Everyone please chime in? Am I just unaware? Has anyone seen an Art Deco platinum ring with a ruby in it?

The box looks very old but vendor will be able to clarify exact dating. I’m guessing 1920s.

 

[voce]

I think Mozambique is a more recent source for ruby, started getting popular after 2000s. The ring being an art deco style means that the ring was created more recently in homage to the art deco era or the center stone was swapped out and this ruby was set into an older setting.

Most likely origin of a "fine" ruby depending on era:
1920s and prior - Sri Lanka and Burma (Mogok), with Sri Lanka contributing more pinkish and Mogok more pigeon blood red
1930s-1960s synthetic ruby
1970s-1990s Thai and Burma (Mong Hsu), with Thai rubies leaning darker red and Mong Hsu leaning pink
2000s-2020s Mozambique, Tanzania, Kenya, Madagascar, Afghanistan

This is a broad generalization, and you can of course still attain a ruby of any origin.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I’d be very surprised if the setting is a repro so if the ruby is modern I’d guess it replaced whatever gem was originally in the mount.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

Tiffany & Co. Three Stone Burma Ruby, 2.06 carat, an #518498

The 2.06 carat Burma ruby prong-set in 18k yellow gold, between two emerald cut diamonds set in platinum, to the platinum band. Signed Tiffany & Co. Accompanied by GIA and AGL reports stating that ruby is of Burmese (Myanmar) origin, with minor signs of heat treatment.

www.beladora.com

cheers--Sharon

 

[LightBright]

I think Mozambique is a more recent source for ruby, started getting popular after 2000s. The ring being an art deco style means that the ring was created more recently in homage to the art deco era or the center stone was swapped out and this ruby was set into an older setting.

Most likely origin of a "fine" ruby depending on era:
1920s and prior - Sri Lanka and Burma (Mogok), with Sri Lanka contributing more pinkish and Mogok more pigeon blood red
1930s-1960s synthetic ruby
1970s-1990s Thai and Burma (Mong Hsu), with Thai rubies leaning darker red and Mong Hsu leaning pink
2000s-2020s Mozambique, Tanzania, Kenya, Madagascar, Afghanistan

This is a broad generalization, and you can of course still attain a ruby of any origin.

Whoah! Looks like the ring is being marketed as antique (at least with antique box) but Mozambique mined rubies could not have been around until late 2000s

Search on GoogleAI

“ Ruby mining in Mozambique was non-existent in any organized capacity in the 1920s. While rubies had been detected in the region as far back as the 1500s, there was no commercial mining until decades later.
Significant ruby mining activities in Mozambique did not begin until the late 20th and early 21st centuries, long after the 1920s:
Post-Independence: There was no mining during the Portuguese colonial period (which ended in 1975), the ensuing civil war, or subsequent flooding.
Initial Discoveries: Initial discoveries of cabochon-grade rubies were reported in the early 1990s in the Cabo Delgado Province.
Major Rush: The first significant sources of gem-quality rubies were only confirmed in the Niassa National Reserve and near Montepuez in 2008.
Commercial Operations: Large-scale commercial mining operations, such as the joint venture between Gemfields and Mwiriti Limitada forming Montepuez Ruby Mining (MRM), began in the early 2010s.”

 

[LightBright]

The plot thickens. GCS Report done on ruby stating unheated Mozambique. See listing link above.

Seller states it is 1930s Art Deco.

So either GCS got origin wrong OR a Mozambique ruby found its way into a 1930s setting OR it’s a modern replica done by Garrard in an antique Garrard box. Garrard is the British Crown Jeweler but I think it also became a retailer. The setting looks antique to me.

Can OP ask about ruby origin and query how this is possible? If OP wants antique, and considering price point, this is important.

GCS is reputable but need higher tier lab report like Gubelein sp for unheated and significantly priced stones.
Mozambique was very modern mined ruby. Could not be in antique piece. Not found in Art Deco.
Art Deco era (1920s–1930s).
Authentic Art Deco ruby jewelry would almost always contain Burmese (Mogok), Siamese/Thai, or Ceylon/Sri Lankan rubies.

Maybe this ring is a modern replica? It’s not likely that the stone is from another geographical mine outside of Africa unless GCS made a mistake, which seems unlikely.


I fed the listing into ChatGPT.
“CHATGPT:
What’s possible — and what’s likely
Possible: The platinum ring itself (the metal, design, maker mark) is an authentic 1930s Garrard & Co. piece. That part may well be original.

Likely: The ruby inside it is not the original 1930s stone — instead, a modern Mozambique ruby was re-set into the antique ring decades later. The “GCS certificate” reflects this modern ruby, not the original gem.

Thus you may have a “genuine Garrard Art-Deco setting + modern Mozambique ruby” rather than a fully original 1930s ruby-in-platinum ring.”

 

[glitterata]

Everyone please chime in? Am I just unaware? Has anyone seen an Art Deco platinum ring with a ruby in it?

Here's mine:


It's a platinum deco ring, c. 1920s, set with a teeny tiny unheated ruby. The ruby is very abraded and clearly original to the setting.

I also have a platinum ring from the 1940s set with a star ruby: