Engagement ring - Young, Ignorant Man Seeking Help :)

[mombasaman]

The hunt begins as I plan to propose sometime soon (perhaps Christmas day...we'll see).

I've done some basic research of the 4 C's, read some forum's, and visited a local retailer to see what I'm getting into.

Below is an image straight from the lady herself. I'm far from wealthy so I have a relatively lower budget compared to others, but as everyone else, I'm looking for the best possible ring at the best possible price (notice I didn't say cheapest!)



Here are some of the specs I've narrowed down to:

Budget: $2000 - $3000 CDN ( I know. It's not that much)
Shape: Round brilliant
Carat: 0.50 - 1
Cut: Very Good or higher - from my understanding cut is the most important but do I really need to go with an excellent cut? Better question: will my budget allow it?
Clarity: VS2 - as long as inclusions and blemishes are not noticeable, I've heard SI2's are acceptable
Colour: G or Above
Grade: This is where I'm least informed but from what I hear, the diamond must be GIA certified

Then there are things like girdle, table size, hearts and arrows...stuff I barely looked into to be honest. Wondering how important these really are or if it's more of a personal preference...really I guess everything is a personal preference.

The local shop I visited (which was in a shopping mall) went from the tagged $3400 and offered me $2400 for the following:

Round Brilliant
.50
VS2
G
Ideal

I compared it with others and this diamond looked good to my untrained eye so I figured these specs would be a base to what I want. They also offered to set it the exact same way as in the picture. I know $2400 is probably still high compared to online standards but aside from the ring they offered services such as 6 months no payment, no interest, no fee (kind of important), lifetime warranty including free cleaning and inspections, and the option to upgrade while only paying the difference.

I'll be honest and say that the services offered sound good and I'm wondering if online retailers can offer such things (I suppose they can't offer something like cleaning and inspections).

I'm not against online shopping per se but I fear of not having peace of mind, worrying that it won't be great and I have to go through the trouble of exchanging it (if I even can). I'll be honest and say one of the things I like about a GOOD local shop is that they take care of you, baby you, if you will. To me service is almost just as important to the ring itself for a young, non-confident shopper as myself.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, especially as I imagine posts like this are posted regularly! Thanks in advance.

 

[vintagelover229]

Where are you located in Canada? There is a good local jeweler in Barrie that I use all the time who has a great selection of rings and stones. His estate pieces usually are pretty well priced too.

http://www.billleboeufjewellers.com/




I also wanted to link you to this ring (being sold by a fellow PSer) and it's a great price and the setting is actually nice too. I know it's not 100% what you wanted but you can always buy just the stone and have it set in a tiffany style setting
http://www.diamondbistro.com/category/216/Natural-Diamond-Center/listings/24275/GIA-certified-051-G-SI1-Diamond-Ring-Sz-475.html

I would make her an offer (she is asking 1300.00 for just the stone) and she is in New York. I'd have the ring sent to either your jeweler or to one in NYC that has a tiffany replica and have it set. I then would have it sent to an appraiser in your area to just confirm everything is what you were hoping it was and then you have a whole new ring for your lovely lady

 

[rubybeth]

Welcome! Cut is very important, because it will affect how much light is reflected from the diamond and really give that 'wow' factor to anyone who sees her ring. A diamond with ideal cut is going to sparkle like crazy and be a little ball of light, compared to a poorly cut diamond that has dark areas, it will blow it away, even if the poorly cut diamond is a higher color and clarity.

GIA and AGS certifications are usually recommended on PriceScope. They grade diamonds reliably, so you can compare stones fairly and be fairly certain that you are getting what you're being sold.

I did a few searches online, but nothing truly amazing with exactly your parameters jumped out at me. I did find this .64 H SI1 superior stone from Good Old Gold, and it includes their Lifetime Guarantee, which means it can be traded in for an upgrade later, if desired:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8412/

Good Old Gold is a bricks & mortar jewelry store in the US, and while I haven't personally purchased from them, from reading reviews on PriceScope, they offer great customer service. They have many setting options and I'm sure they could work with your budget; I'm not sure how taxes are handled, but maybe a Canadian can chime in?? Pretty sure Good Old Gold can also do financing.

Two other thoughts:
-get the angles on the stone you saw locally and plug the numbers into the Holloway Cut Advisor: https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca and if it comes back at 2 or below, you may have a winner right there -- can the local store give you any information on the cut?
-Blue Nile Canada. Their stones aren't 'in house' so they can't look at them and tell you if, say, an SI2 stone is 'eye clean' to a certain standard the way Good Old Gold, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds, or James Allen could, and I'm not sure if they have an upgrade policy.

As for regular maintenance of the ring, any local jeweler can check the ring and do cleaning even if it wasn't purchased there. You could buy your wedding bands locally, and have the same place take care of the engagement ring, if needed. Ideally you'd insure the ring against damage and theft, as well.

 

[mombasaman]

Thank you for the replies. I'm in Toronto and although Barrie isn't relatively that far away, it's still a good drive away...which is difficult when you don't have a car!

I'll look into getting the details of the diamond I saw from the store. That HCA tool is new to me but seems pretty helpful. Is it safe to say that anything that gets over a 2 is a piece of trash? If this diamond from the store does get a 2 or below, $2400 is a good price given the specs I posted above?

I've been skimming through bluenile.ca and it's interesting to see that diamonds with very similar specs go from $1700 to $2500, I'm guessing it's the measurements and Price Per Carat that separates them.

Thanks

 

[vintagelover229]

If I were you I'd give Adam a call. Tell him your budget and what you want and he'll get it all put together for you and ship it to you.


I have been in his store many times and they are 100% great to work with. I realize you don't have a car but he is wonderful to work with over the phone and just tell him the girl who loves old cuts on PS referred you to him and he'll get you all set up.


And yes if it's over a 2 on the scale I would pass on it. Adam will know what to find you though and has a ton of stones in the store with a lot of great settings to choose from. Since you want a simple solitaire that should be easy enough to do.


Tell him you want a well cut stone with good color and eye clean in a simple white gold (or platinum) solitaire and give him your budget. He can get GIA graded diamonds that are ideal in cut if that is what you want.

Btw Adam is bill's son but bill has since retired and his son now runs the store.

Good luck no matter what you choose!

Also-i'm not sure if you considered this but since you are downtown would you consider an auction? They have an amazing one coming up with some great prices on some beautiful diamond rings that I bet you could get out of there with what you want for the price you are looking for but come out with a nicer ring than you could have gotten paying retail. They have one coming up this month and you can view the items prior to the bidding. Here is a link to the site
http://dupuis.ca/browseByCategory.jsp

IMO I would check out the auction first-see if there is anything on the list you even like. Then visit in person and if you like it plan on getting it. If not give Adam a call and see if he can hook you up.


ETA: I added a couple I think might work. I know it's YG and not WG but you can always rhodium plate it (it will need done more often) until you reset it or just reset it.

http://dupuis.ca/Item.jsp?category=true&categoryID=8&gallery=true&Item_Id=19886&auctionid=67&page=2

http://dupuis.ca/Item.jsp?category=true&categoryID=8&gallery=true&Item_Id=19914&auctionid=67&page=3

 

[mombasaman]

Been a few weeks since I posted but I am back in engagement ring shopping mode.

I just visited a local independent shop in Toronto and was quoted the following:

$3050 CDN - tax in. also includes the band and setting.
0.58k
SI 1
G colour
Very good cut
EGL certified

I have to say, the diamond did look good especially for an SI 1 (but hey, what do I know).

The experience wasn't bad per se, but I immediately thought "I could probably get more bang for the buck at bluenile.ca". The thing about bluenile is that you cannot physically see the diamond before you buy it. I'm just wondering, does it really matter?

Is it safe to say that a GIA certified VS2, ideal cut is as eye-clean as you can get compared to anything else out there?

Let's just take this diamond for example:

http://www.bluenile.ca/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-ideal-cut-e-colour-vs2-clarity_LD02194622

This appears to be a good match. I ran it through the HCA and got a 1.3. Would this be considered a "good" diamond and guaranteed to be eye-clean?

On a side note, I'm assuming I can buy it loose and get it set locally?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You'll be a little more safe if you stick with the signature ideal cut stones like this one:

http://www.bluenile.ca/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02239110

But if you were open to a G color EGL stone, you could easily go down to G or H color with GIA and get a larger stone.

http://www.bluenile.ca/round-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-g-colour-vs2-clarity_LD02325917

http://www.bluenile.ca/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02281979

http://www.bluenile.ca/diamond-search?track=head#diamonds_pid=LD02268964

There are lots of G and H signature ideal stones in the .50-.65 range. And I do think VS2 is safer than SI1 when ordering a stone you haven't seen.

 

[mombasaman]

Thanks for the reply.

Looks like I'm leaning more towards Whiteflash as I can actually see the diamond there. Also, I heard there's some sort of pricescope/whiteflash discount that I need to look into.

For the diamond and setting, I'm looking for under $3000 CDN.

Some of the one's I'm looking at are:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2289403.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2398116.htm

These recommended? Anything better I'm not seeing?

Question about the ring:

I'm currently looking at 14k white gold. Can someone explain the everyday use implications between 14k and 18k white gold. I know platinum is "the way to go" but I'd rather spend more on the diamond and stay under budget.

Thanks again.

 

[rubybeth]

Thanks for the reply.

Looks like I'm leaning more towards Whiteflash as I can actually see the diamond there. Also, I heard there's some sort of pricescope/whiteflash discount that I need to look into.

For the diamond and setting, I'm looking for under $3000 CDN.

Some of the one's I'm looking at are:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2289403.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2398116.htm

These recommended? Anything better I'm not seeing?

Question about the ring:

I'm currently looking at 14k white gold. Can someone explain the everyday use implications between 14k and 18k white gold. I know platinum is "the way to go" but I'd rather spend more on the diamond and stay under budget.

Thanks again.

Being able to see the diamond is a definite plus vs. Blue Nile. Either of the Whiteflash stones you posted would be great choices, both are their ACA line, which means you can get the Pricescope discount (or Pricescope wire discount, if you wire transfer the funds vs. using a credit card), AND you would qualify for their 12th anniversary promotion, 12% off a setting with the purchase of an ACA: http://www.whiteflash.com/promotions/special-offer-from-whiteflash.aspx You should be able to see the Pricescope discount prices on their site if you link to it from Pricescope when logged in. Or just tell them you are on PS when you call.

Here's another stone to consider, G VS2 and $2,176 w/Pricescope discount: http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2671411.htm **If you are seriously considering any of these stones, contact WF and place them on hold so nobody else can scoop them up!**

The solitaire 6 prong setting you originally posted is available in 14k for $350 (-$42, so $30 or 18k for $650 (-$78 so $572): http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/6-prong-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-582.htm
-or- the 4 prong version in 14k for $308 w/discount, or 18k for $475 (-$57 so $41:
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/solitaire/4-prong-tiffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-587.htm This would definitely keep you under budget with either of the stones you picked or the one I found, above.

As for 14k vs. 18k, for an engagement ring, I'd kick out for the higher gold content (18k), but if 14k is the only way to stay in budget, I'd go with it but probably replace the setting down the line with 18k. But, your budget is healthy and you can afford the 18k from the get-go.

ETA: I don't think that platinum is necessarily 'the way to go,' some people dislike the patina that platinum develops over time, and I'm one of them. All my rings are white gold. Platinum is a good option for those with nickel allergies, though.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I have ACA diamonds from WF, so I think that is an excellent choice! G VS1 is my personal preference, but G VS2 is great, too! And do go with 18k white gold for an e-ring if you intend for that to be her permanent setting. The only time I recommend 14k is when the setting is temporary and going to be replaced soon.

 

[mombasaman]

I just put this diamond on hold, wanted to get your opinions

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2715419.htm

I'm setting it on an 18k 6 prong white gold ring.

Also, I just had the most helpful online chat experience I've ever had. The lady who helped me was super helpful and took all my seemingly endless questions with a smile. I haven't taken the dive yet but I'm feeling I might with this one.

This would be shipping to Toronto, Canada. Would anyone have an idea of how much I'd be paying for customs/taxes?

Thanks!

 

[NervousBuyer]

I'm from Canada and recently bought an e-ring from the states. Keep in mind that so long as you do things legally, you're going to be paying the 13% HST regardless of where you buy it. If you buy it online in the states it gets held at customs until the 13% HST is paid. If you pick it up in person (i.e. buy it from a B&M store in the states) you will have to pay the local in-state tax as well as 13% when you declare it crossing the border - therefore being taxed twice. Sucks eh.

Some Canadians may pay no tax by shipping the diamond out of state but still in the US, and then driving to get it and smuggling it across the border, but this is illegal, breaks several American and Canadian laws, and puts you at serious risk if you get caught. I do not recommend this. I had my ring shipped to ON via FedEx and paid the 13% HST (no duty is assessed) to customs. It was very simple to do. Customs/FedEx may require you to sign a temporary PoA (Power of Attorney) and fax/e-mail it to them which means they may pay for the 13% HST and you pay for it when you pick it up at FedEx. Caution: I was accidentaly charged twice (customs at the border and when I picked it up) but FedEx was great about having the 2nd charge reversed.

An H-VS2 will be lovely and those stats look good (then again, the stats on all ACA diamonds are great, otherwise they wouldn't be ACA). Good luck!

 

[mombasaman]

Thanks for the reply!

The plan is to just have it FedEx'd and 'm fine with paying the 13% HST. I just wanted to make sure there's nothing on top of that 13%.

Also, Whiteflash has a wire transfer discount. I've never made a wire transfer so I asked my brother who works at a bank. He said VISA is safer and to be careful with wiring that much money over. His words were, "You're wiring that much money and just trusting they'll send the ring? I'd be careful." In those words I wondered if the $200 I'd be saving is worth it.

BUT I'm assuming I'd have to be wary if it was a sketchy company or independent seller, but from my understanding, Whiteflash is pretty reputable so I don't have much to worry about...right?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[geckodani]

WF is very highly recommended, and I would not hesitate to wire the money to them. It is all a matter of your comfort level. I think you made an excellent choice!

 

[NervousBuyer]

I wired money to BGD, and many many many others have wired money to WF and other PS recommended stores without problems. The discount is offered simply because it's cheaper on their end to not have to deal with Visa fees so they pass some savings on to you. It's not so that they can run away with people's money. Someone would have complained.

NOTE: depending on your bank, you could have to pay a wire fee of perhaps $30 or $40 dollars for the international wire. This cuts into your savings. For a large purchase you can still save a decent chunk of change. With a Visa payment, you're giving money to Visa. With a bank wire, you're giving money to the bank, your vendor, and saving some for yourself, but with a theoretical loss of security.

These companies are well established and have a history of being honourable. You have an invoice (which you'll need to bring to the bank), your receipt (proof of payment should it come to that), and you will be provided with a tracking number. If something does goes wrong (unlikely!), it should be easy to figure out and prove. People have been wiring these companies money for years with little to no problems.

FYI, it took about 2 days for my package to arrive due to a slight hold at customs (to pay HST) - so don't expect true overnight shipping since it's international. I also called FedEx after it shipped to have it held for pickup at the nearest hub. They will hold it for 5 days and then you can pick it up whenever you want without worrying about having to be home. For shipments to Ontario it should go through customs in Mississauga (mine did), and you can see every detail using the tracking number - very comforting! You may have to call FedEx when you see it has been held as they won't necessarily call you right away to sort it out. I called, asked for the PoA form, e-mailed it back, no problems.