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Engagement ring help?!

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bartschy88

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
3
Hey guys,
I'm probably the normal guy who previously had no idea on diamonds, but have done a bit of research over the last couple of weeks and think I will buy from James Allen. I live in Australia so will have to pay the 10% GST, but even with that added the prices are similar to australia retailers, and the viewing tools on their website are unparalleled.

For those more knowledgeable than me, could you give me an opinion on the following diamonds?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.21-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-314874

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.24-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-329218

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.11-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-258486

As you can probably tell I'm looking for a standard round cut diamond, around the 1.1-1.2 carat range for around $7-8k.

Any help would be great, especially anyone who has bought from JA (or bought online from Aus?)

Thanks,
Nick
 
bartschy88|1402566549|3691459 said:
Hey guys,
I'm probably the normal guy who previously had no idea on diamonds, but have done a bit of research over the last couple of weeks and think I will buy from James Allen. I live in Australia so will have to pay the 10% GST, but even with that added the prices are similar to australia retailers, and the viewing tools on their website are unparalleled.

For those more knowledgeable than me, could you give me an opinion on the following diamonds?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.21-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-314874

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.24-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-329218

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.11-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-258486

As you can probably tell I'm looking for a standard round cut diamond, around the 1.1-1.2 carat range for around $7-8k.

Any help would be great, especially anyone who has bought from JA (or bought online from Aus?)

Thanks,
Nick
Click to expand...

Diamond 1: The table is too big and the crown angle is too shallow for a 40.8 pavillion angle.

Diamond 2: The crown angle is too steep.

Diamond 3: This one is interesting. Even though it has a big table and steep pavillion, It actually falls within AGS ideal proportions, but it gets a 2.6 on the HCA. Personally I think a pavillion angle of 41.2 is pushing it, and you may get leakage under the table. Also, as you can see from the picture, a large table and a deep pavillion together will give you a very large table reflection, which isn't very attractive, especially with the chaotic optical symmetry of this diamond.

I will try to find some better options for you. Is that budget before or after tax, and is it in US dollars or AUS dollars? What is your hard upper limit?
 
I looked through all I VS2s, H VS2s, and I SI1s, and the only one I liked is the following:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-i-color-vs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-163768

It is a 1.14 I VS2 GIA 3Ex.
Also falls within AGS 0 proportions.
HCA 1.6 (ex, ex, ex, vg).
6.74 mm spread with a thin to med girdle and no culet.
No fluorescence.
Table 57% Depth % 61.2% Crown angle 35.0 Pavillion angle 40.8
From the photo is looks to have nice optical symmetry and good looking contrast pattern.
And yes it is in your budget.

Edit: sorry posted wrong link.
 
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/preferred-specs-cheat-sheet-for-rounds.88548/[/URL]
http://niceice.com/diamond-buying-secrets/5-minutes-diamond-buying-success/
Those give the "preferred" proportions for a modern diamond. All of those JA stones that you picked have an "older" look of large table and shallower crown angle & height, and are more of a 60/60 diamond (60% table, 60% depth). Nothing wrong with that look, if you like it and pick a good performer.

HCA tool under the Tools table here -- plug in dimensions and look for a score 2 or under. eta: No need to run the HCA on anything graded AGS 000 because AGS top cut grade is stricter than GIA's. The best-cut stones often have an AGS report, because the cutters will send them to AGS if they know they are AGS 000 caliber.

color: I range is where most people can start to see tint. See it, and bothered by it are 2 different things, But just be aware that an I colored diamond will have a bit of a creamy tone to it from the profile view. Stop at H if you want "white." J is definitely a pale yellow to my eyes. But people differ in color sensitivity, and there's nothing wrong with the warm diamond colors if you/she like them. People have engagement ring diamonds in the J or K to O or P range and love them.
 
Thanks everyone for the help!

Metatrix - thanks for the feedback. I've asked the JA gemologist to not worry about the second diamond (329218) but rather have a look at the one you recommended. Somehow that escaped my trawling and it looks amazing, so hopefully he should be able to accomodate it for me! My upper limit is probably US$8k, as when thats put into AUD and tax/duty added I'll be looking at around $AUD10k.

Ooohshiny - I would like to stick to the JA site, simply for the reviews I have read, the size (and therefore hopefully reliability) of the site, and the viewing tools they offer. Few people have negative things to say about them, and given I'm naturally hesitant about spending that much online, I need all the confidence I can get.

TC1987 - Thanks for the links, I'll have a read now. I'm willing to have a slight tint in the diamond (if I look at G or H the size takes a dramatic hit), so I dare say I is around the right colour range.

Thanks again to all for the advice, I'll let you know how it goes. The only other question I have is about getting the setting online (I can easily get my girlfriends ring size), or just buy the diamond and pay a bit more to have it set over here. Any thoughts?

Cheers from down under,
Nick
 
Just to reassure you, HPD (where I linked to) is represented on this site by Wink, who is a true gent and has been in business decades :) He offers No Obligation 21-day evaluation periods (apart from return shipping and insurance costs should you decide not to keep it for some reason :shock: ), 100% of the value towards an upgrade at any given point in the future, and unlimited-time 80% buyback if, in the future, something comes up that means you need to sell the diamond - probably the best upgrade and buyback policy anywhere!

CBI are among the best cut diamonds available - check out these links for some examples :) The first link is my thread on the CBI stone I recently purchased, and it is unbelievably sparkly in direct light yet has bright white light return in indirect light! You can also see in the pictures the comprehensive evaluation kit that comes with the diamond, so you yourself can check out the ASETscope, IdealScope and Hearts&Arrows in real life.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/crafted-by-infinity-0-67ct-f-vvs2.202616/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/crafted-by-infinity-0-67ct-f-vvs2.202616/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-show-me-your-crafted-by-infinity-diamond.150001/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/please-show-me-your-crafted-by-infinity-diamond.150001/[/URL]


These threads also have some excellent endorsements from long-standing members on here :)

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/saw-a-crafted-by-infinity-diamond-wow.200983/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/saw-a-crafted-by-infinity-diamond-wow.200983/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/high-performance-diamonds.144355/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/high-performance-diamonds.144355/[/URL]


You can't go wrong buying from Wink! :)
 
bartschy88|1402658984|3692262 said:
Thanks everyone for the help!

Metatrix - thanks for the feedback. I've asked the JA gemologist to not worry about the second diamond (329218) but rather have a look at the one you recommended. Somehow that escaped my trawling and it looks amazing, so hopefully he should be able to accomodate it for me! My upper limit is probably US$8k, as when thats put into AUD and tax/duty added I'll be looking at around $AUD10k.

Ooohshiny - I would like to stick to the JA site, simply for the reviews I have read, the size (and therefore hopefully reliability) of the site, and the viewing tools they offer. Few people have negative things to say about them, and given I'm naturally hesitant about spending that much online, I need all the confidence I can get.

TC1987 - Thanks for the links, I'll have a read now. I'm willing to have a slight tint in the diamond (if I look at G or H the size takes a dramatic hit), so I dare say I is around the right colour range.

Thanks again to all for the advice, I'll let you know how it goes. The only other question I have is about getting the setting online (I can easily get my girlfriends ring size), or just buy the diamond and pay a bit more to have it set over here. Any thoughts?

Cheers from down under,
Nick
Click to expand...


Just to further underscore what you feel about JA, a few years ago I bought online some stones and setting from them for export. the end to end process was very smooth and Jim himself was very gracious and helpful. My wife (and therefore I) was very happy with the end product. On the setting one point to consider is that you will need to have insurance cover for the stone being set if you just buy the stone, also I don't know what Australian duty rules/rates are but in UK there is no duty (other than VAT) on unset stones but there is a 2.5% duty on set jewelry items.
 
A nice option if you can eliminate any of those (the first and the third are not so hot): http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.21-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-329414

James Allen is a great company, and IMO offers the best end to end buyer experience. They strike the exact right balance in customer service responsiveness, breadth of inventory, prices, and necessary information without being overkill if you have some requisite background knowledge.
 
Hey all,
So I've had the gemologist have a look and take some ASET pics, please see attached. His personal preference was 163768, as it was the whitest (almost H grade). The review is below:

I hope that you are having a great day! I just received the results from the gemologist for the three round brilliant diamonds and I wanted to take this moment to pass them your way. The Idealscope images are attached to this e-mail for your review and I am sure that you will be very happy to see them! With the Idealscope images, you want to see a lot of red (this is your direct light return) with dark black arrows and little to no white (this is your light leakage).



As I am sure you expected after reviewing the images, the gemologist found all three diamonds to be very lively performers! They all possess an excellent amount of brilliance (white light return), fire (dispersion of color) and sparkle that is well balanced and symmetrical. His personal favorite of the three was the 1.14 carat-I-VS2 (diamond 163768; $6,690) because it faces up a higher "I" color, closer to an "H" and it is the whitest of the three. The 1.11 carat-I-SI1 (diamond 258486; $6,540) and the 1.21 carat-I-VS2 (diamond 314874; $7,240) are both true "I's" and still face up white, just not as white as the other. All three diamonds are completely "eye clean" also.



If you've got a moment to have a look at the pics and let me know your thoughts that'd be great, at the moment I'm learning towards the 163768 - Thanks again to metatrix for pointing it out!

Cheers,
Nick

163768.jpg

258486.jpg

314874.jpg
 
I would go with my choice as well. :tongue:

Here is why:

I think you should rule out the 1.11 carat-I-SI1 (diamond 258486; $6,540) based on the idealscope. It has too much black, I think. It would probably have great scintillation (small sparkles) since it has so many hotspots, BUT the arrows are thinner so you won't have as much bold flashes of fire.

Now, the real interesting comparison is between the two I VS2s. Both have 40.8 pavillion angles, 50% stars and 75% lower girdles. The main differences are in the crown angles and the tables. My pick (let's call it diamond A) has a CA of 35 and a table of 57%. The other (diamond B) has a CA of 32.5 and a table of 61%. These are two different flavours of diamond. Diamond A is a classic balance between brightness and fire. Whereas B is a nice example of a well cut 60/60 (60 table/60 depth), which sacrifices fire for optimal brightness and spread (sort of). Holding the table% constant, a shallower CA means more brightness, less fire, and better spread. Holding the CA constant, a larger table means more brightness, less fire, worse spread (although the large table may give the false illusion of a bigger diamond), and a bigger table reflection.

What does this mean for A vs B? Well, the large table and shallow crown work together to give lots of brightness in diffuse lighting conditions, but you will have less fire in spotlighting conditions. A is in the sweet spot for a balance between brightness and fire. The shallow crown of B means better spread, BUT this is counteracted by the larger table. Vice versa on diamond A -- steeper crown (worse for spread) is balanced by smaller table (better for spread). Still, overall, diamond B has a slightly smaller depth than diamond A, so it does have the better spread. Now, of course, diamond B is also a bigger carat weight, and that also contributes to its greater diameter.

The other differences:
- A has a thinner girdle than B, which is a definite positive, since that means less weight is wasted on the girdle (i.e. better spread).
- A has 'excellent' polish whereas B has 'very good' polish (not a big deal, but still).
- A has clouds (I don't like clouds), although the gemologist did not mention any transparency issues.
- A has, hands down, the nicer contrast pattern. Look at the photos of A and B side by side. You can see real arrows in A, whereas the arrow heads in B are cut off because of the large table. A also has a smaller table reflection (that small circle in the middle). And the hotspots (black spots surrounding the arrow bases) under the table are larger and less symmetrical, and therefore the contrast pattern under the table of diamond B is uglier than diamond A.

Go for diamond A if you want a good balance between fire and brightness while still having excellent spread for carat weight, and a more pleasing and symmetrical contrast pattern. Go for diamond B if you want an extra 0.2 mm in diameter, want a super bright diamond under office lighting, and don't care that much about fire.

Both are good options, and it comes down to personal preference, and what you want out of your diamond, performance-wise and value-for-money wise. I would personally pick A because I think it's just a prettier looking diamond. But diamond B is great option as well (and an awesome example of a 60/60 flavour). Oh, I guess A is slightly whiter as well, although I know I personally wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 'high' I and a 'low' I.

Sorry for the novel. I felt the need to justify my choice. :love:
 
What an insightful analysis, metatrix!
 
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