Engagement 101 transfers as Misogyny 319 - who knew?

[Circe]

One of my guilty pleasures in life is buying wedding magazines that talk about wedding jewelry (I am figuring that you guys will understand, unlike my checkout girl, who looked at my magazine, looked at my hands, and obviously decided that I was crazy). In my own defense, there just aren''t that many other publications for jewelry fans! And Engagement101 has been one of my favorites - it''s like a portable PriceScope. Well, until now, that is: check out these excerpts from one of the worst pieces of tripe that I can remember coming across in a professional publication in ... well, ever: "For His Eyes Only ... So You Want to Get Married?"

"For the last 30 years we''re been trying to convince ourselves that men and women really, deep down inside, want the same things. Boys don''t naturally want to play with trucks and army men, and girls don''t naturally want to play with dolls and sugar and spice any whatever it is that girls are made of. It turns out we were wrong! I didn''t want to run headlong into traffic, jump off the top of the monkey bars, or punch the kid on the bus next to me as a negotiating technique because of social conditioning. Similarly, my fiancee doesn''t like flowers, can name subtle shades of green I can''t even see or hordes shoes like she has 15 pairs of feet because her parents shoved a doll into her hands and forced her to dress it nice.

The truth of the matter is I''m a dude and she''s a chick."

Message aside, the grammatical errors! The lack of parallelism! Aaaaai, my eyes, they bleed. As for the message ... it gets worse. An example?

In discussing two engagements, the author says,

"The Finches also defy traditional gender roles because Katie is the main breadwinner. The same is the case for Jimmy Nelson and his wife, Kelly. Not so long ago a husband would have been humiliated to have his woman working much less making more money than he does. We live in a vastly different world today (Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes)."

I''d give him the benefit of the doubt and say that he''s just failing miserably at being funny, but ... dude. A), I want them to hire a proof-reader, stat, and B), I kind of want to ask the editor what the hell s/he was thinking. Running an article that lumps all women together into a weirdly retro tulle-wrapped lump, and insults them both implicitly with the assumptions and explicitly with the sophomoric humor in a magazine whose consumer base is almost certainly largely female? How tone-deaf do you have to be?

Argh. I regret my 5 bucks. Thanks for listening to the vent, though ....

 

[AprilBaby]

What is misogyny?

 

[Circe]

Hatred of women - the author seems to have some weird vested interest in putting us in our "place." The article is predicated on this weird claim that the last 30 years of gender equality were all a big mistake - without, mind, anything resembling support or proof.

 

[kittybean]

Good explanation from Wikipedia:

In its most overt expression, a misogynist will openly hate all women simply because they are female.

Other forms of misogyny may be less overt. Some misogynists may simply be prejudiced against all women, or may hate women who do not fall into one or more acceptable categories. Entire cultures may be said to be misogynist if they treat women in ways that can be seen as harmful.

Examples include forcing women to tend to all domestic responsibilities, not allowing women to take jobs outside the home, or beating women. Subscribers to one model, the mother/whore dichotomy, hold that women can only be "mothers" or "whores." Another variant is the virgin/whore dichotomy, in which women who do not adhere to a saintly standard of moral purity (Abrahamic) are considered "whores."

Frequently, the term misogynist is used in a looser sense as a term of derision to describe anyone who holds an unpopular or distasteful view about women as a group. A man who considers himself "a great lover of women," therefore, might somewhat paradoxically be termed a misogynist by those who consider this treatment of women to be sexist. Archetypes of this type of man might be Giacomo Casanova and Don Juan, who were both reputed for their many libertine affairs with women.

 

[musey]

Date: 1/14/2009 8:35:02 PM
Author: AprilBaby
What is misogyny?

Google tells me (search for "define:misogyny"):

Misogyny is hatred (or contempt) of women. Misogyny is parallel to misandry — the hatred of men. Misogyny is also comparable with misanthropy, which is the hatred of humanity generally. The antonym of misogyny is philogyny, love towards women.

 

[kittybean]

I hope this article is signed, so women can stay away from this chauvinistic, uneducated, prejudiced sorry-excuse-for-a-man. Ick.

 

[AprilBaby]

OUCH!

 

[WishfulThinking]

Ew... same old song and dance.

The jerkitude is possibly endless with this sort of stuff. It''s so hard to escape [or maybe I''m just really astute at noticing it, being a Gender Studies major?].

 

[LGK]

I used to enjoy reading fashion magazines since I''m very into makeup (I make it, and I''ve worked as a makeup artist in the past) but I found that I''d end up inevitably reading some similar piece of tripe of an article. I finally decided it wasn''t worth raising my blood pressure that much just to check out cool makeup, and haven''t cracked a magazine in about five years.

That is pretty obnoxious though.

 

[kittybean]

Date: 1/14/2009 8:50:52 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
Ew... same old song and dance.

The jerkitude is possibly endless with this sort of stuff. It''s so hard to escape [or maybe I''m just really astute at noticing it, being a Gender Studies major?].

WT, it must be awesome being a Gender Studies major. I graduated before I could complete my Women''s Studies minor, but I absolutely loved the classes.

 

[WishfulThinking]

Date: 1/14/2009 9:03:04 PM
Author: kittybean

Date: 1/14/2009 8:50:52 PM

Author: WishfulThinking

Ew... same old song and dance.

The jerkitude is possibly endless with this sort of stuff. It's so hard to escape [or maybe I'm just really astute at noticing it, being a Gender Studies major?].

WT, it must be awesome being a Gender Studies major. I graduated before I could complete my Women's Studies minor, but I absolutely loved the classes.

Oh it is! I really love it and am thinking of doing a similarly-oriented grad study program. Very cool that you were able to take Women's Studies courses. I adore the theory aspect but I swear sometimes my head is going to explode--or, as LGK put it, my blood pressure goes through the roof--and I think perhaps ignorance might be bliss. Luckily we don't spend too much time on the run of the mill misogynistic/gender essentialist articles that pop up all over, or I'd be in a constant tissy!

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Date: 1/14/2009 8:58:37 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
I used to enjoy reading fashion magazines since I'm very into makeup (I make it, and I've worked as a makeup artist in the past) but I found that I'd end up inevitably reading some similar piece of tripe of an article. I finally decided it wasn't worth raising my blood pressure that much just to check out cool makeup, and haven't cracked a magazine in about five years.

That is pretty obnoxious though.

ITA and had a similar experience. I used to subscribe to Elle, but there was one issue this last year-- maybe May or June, perhaps someone else read it(?)-- where EVERY single article seemed selected to make women feel inadequate. After perusing about micro-liposuction, toe-shortening surgery to look good in sandals and have 'flirt-worthy feet', how all the fashionable women are getting micro-eyelifts on their days off, botox and how new-gen injectables by age 26 as preventative action against impending crinkles around the eyes so that men on the street will flirt with you again is the new norm for the ladies who lunch, I was done. Blech. No advance preview of designer collections nor tips on new makeup innovations are worth it. Who are the women-hating editors of the magazine, and if they hate their fellow women so much why did they join on the staff of a WOMEN'S magazine anyway?



"Don't get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes."

Geez, Circe, I'd be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you've decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. ("My fiance tried explaining it to me that it's like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I'll just take his word for it. Math is hard!")

Circe, which magazine is it, so I'll never buy it?

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis

Date: 1/14/2009 8:58:37 PM
Author: LittleGreyKitten
I used to enjoy reading fashion magazines since I''m very into makeup (I make it, and I''ve worked as a makeup artist in the past) but I found that I''d end up inevitably reading some similar piece of tripe of an article. I finally decided it wasn''t worth raising my blood pressure that much just to check out cool makeup, and haven''t cracked a magazine in about five years.

That is pretty obnoxious though.

ITA and had a similar experience. I used to subscribe to Elle, but there was one issue this last year-- maybe May or June, perhaps someone else read it(?)-- where EVERY single article seemed selected to make women feel inadequate. After perusing about micro-liposuction, toe-shortening surgery to look good in sandals and have ''flirt-worthy feet'', how all the fashionable women are getting micro-eyelifts on their days off, botox and how new-gen injectables by age 26 as preventative action against impending crinkles around the eyes so that men on the street will flirt with you again is the new norm for the ladies who lunch, I was done. Blech. No advance preview of designer collections nor tips on new makeup innovations are worth it. Who are the women-hating editors of the magazine, and if they hate their fellow women so much why did they join on the staff of a WOMEN''S magazine anyway?



''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''

Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

OMGosh!! Fleur, you had me cracking out loud at this!! So much so my Fi asked me whats up, and he thought it was awesome aswell.
I love your wit

math is hard...chuckle..

 

[katamari]

Uuuuhhhhhh. I wish you could get your money back, too, Circe. To be fair, (at least in the wedding mags I have read) the female writes are pretty stuck in traditional gender roles that are sexist. But, this is a different level of vile. Yuck.

 

[Circe]

Date: 1/14/2009 8:45:25 PM
Author: kittybean
I hope this article is signed, so women can stay away from this chauvinistic, uneducated, prejudiced sorry-excuse-for-a-man. Ick.

KittyBean, it is (though, in an unexpected place - one would almost think that the author wanted to remain anonymous!), but he''s writing as an "authority" because he''s a recently engaged man. I am assuming his fiancee is somehow associated with the magazine, ''cause I''m damned if there could be any justification other than preemptive nepotism for this being run ....

 

[Circe]

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis
''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''


Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

Hehehehe - Fleur, much like Arjujane, I just nearly snorted my beverage from out my nose. EXCELLENT solution! Adding insult to injury, I lowballed the cost - it''s actually $10 bucks. Engagement 101, ladies! Read it and weep.

P.S. - This isn''t actually the most shriekingly inappropriate publication to cross my desk today. That honor goes to the somewhat amusingly named McFeely''s - an advertising journal. See, McFeely''s sells screws. And has a nice assortment on their cover. Inside, they advertise extra-long screws, super-hard screws ... the works. But, hey! At least they''re honest about what they''re offering. If I''m getting screwed by a magazine, I''d really prefer to know it up front.

 

[tlh]

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis


ITA and had a similar experience. I used to subscribe to Elle, but there was one issue this last year-- maybe May or June, perhaps someone else read it(?)-- where EVERY single article seemed selected to make women feel inadequate. After perusing about micro-liposuction, toe-shortening surgery to look good in sandals and have ''flirt-worthy feet'', how all the fashionable women are getting micro-eyelifts on their days off, botox and how new-gen injectables by age 26 as preventative action against impending crinkles around the eyes so that men on the street will flirt with you again is the new norm for the ladies who lunch, I was done. Blech. No advance preview of designer collections nor tips on new makeup innovations are worth it. Who are the women-hating editors of the magazine, and if they hate their fellow women so much why did they join on the staff of a WOMEN''S magazine anyway?



''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''

Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

You know I always wonder about this statistic. Do they actually take a woman w/ the same amount of experience in a job and compare it to a man in the same profession on the same level? Or is everyone lumped together in one pot... because if that is the case, there are a lot of women I know who CHOOSE to work part time so they can be with their families, and are happier to take jobs that aren''t top paying because of low stress levels. Which I think is a great option... but I digress.
But then again, I can use this as ammo against my hubby and make him spend 25% of his salary on my baubles! That spoonful of sugar, makes that crap go down!

 

[AmberGretchen]

Date: 1/27/2009 12:38:45 PM
Author: tlh

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM

Author: fleur-de-lis

''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''


Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

You know I always wonder about this statistic. Do they actually take a woman w/ the same amount of experience in a job and compare it to a man in the same profession on the same level? Or is everyone lumped together in one pot... because if that is the case, there are a lot of women I know who CHOOSE to work part time so they can be with their families, and are happier to take jobs that aren''t top paying because of low stress levels. Which I think is a great option... but I digress.

But then again, I can use this as ammo against my hubby and make him spend 25% of his salary on my baubles! That spoonful of sugar, makes that crap go down!

I''m fairly certain that all the studies have looked at salaries controlled for experience, industry, etc...If you don''t control for that its actually a much bigger disparity because women tend to take traditionally lower-paying jobs such as administrative assistants, for many of the lifestyle reasons mentioned above, but also for other reasons that aren''t as simple as that and I''m sure WishfulThinking could explain them much better than I can

That said, I''ll soon be earning more than my DH and being the breadwinner, and we''re both fine with that - I''m really glad that I have a husband who has no problem with the fact that I''m not a "traditional" female who wants to take only "feminine" roles, and isn''t like the schmuck who wrote this article

 

[WishfulThinking]

AmberGretchen is right, the studies are definitely controlled for variables! The statistic would be worthless without that, of course.

Slightly off-topic but also interesting is the nature of choice when it comes to career and gender. Of course people do choose their careers in the more general sense of the word. However, the social and professional mechanisms that underlie peoples'' career decisions are really interesting... to me at least.

For example, tlh is completely right that many women choose to work part time to be with families or lower-paying jobs that come with less stress. That''s totally great, and one of the wonderful things about today''s world is that both women and men are loosely able to make these choices for themselves and choose what fits best with them and their lifestyle. However, woman in general [HUGE generalizations] are socialized to deal with stress differently than men are, and often taught to avoid it in careers because they are not emotionally stable enough to handle it. High-stress careers are often male-dominated professions and it can be difficult for women to gain social access and acceptance into them even if she did want to. Everything from gender bias in education to gender discrimination in employment, to socialized expectations about men and women''s acceptable behaviors is partially responsible for this. It''s also important to note that unpaid labour such as caring for children and the home largely falls on the shoulders of women, even today. Of course many women love to care for their families and homes, but regardless of how much she loves to do it, it will contribute to her career decisions in a way that having a family and a home may not contribute to the career decisions of her husband. Not only are men [actually everyone] taught from an early age that looking after children is primarily a woman''s job, but even if he decides he would like to stay home with his children, the US employment system doesn''t make it especially easy. A woman is eligible for maternity leave [as pitiful as it is in the US] and it is much more difficult for a man to receive time off after the birth of his child. Daycare is expensive, women are paid less to begin with... who quits their job to take care of their children? All these things are variables thrown together in the big pot of social relations and they impact each other in really interesting ways.

Of course I''ve explained it rather clumsily, but it''s totally fascinating to me. Sorry for the ramble.

 

[Irishgrrrl]

GAAAAH, this just makes me want to vomit!!!

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis

ITA and had a similar experience. I used to subscribe to Elle, but there was one issue this last year-- maybe May or June, perhaps someone else read it(?)-- where EVERY single article seemed selected to make women feel inadequate. After perusing about micro-liposuction, toe-shortening surgery to look good in sandals and have ''flirt-worthy feet'', how all the fashionable women are getting micro-eyelifts on their days off, botox and how new-gen injectables by age 26 as preventative action against impending crinkles around the eyes so that men on the street will flirt with you again is the new norm for the ladies who lunch, I was done. Blech. No advance preview of designer collections nor tips on new makeup innovations are worth it. Who are the women-hating editors of the magazine, and if they hate their fellow women so much why did they join on the staff of a WOMEN''S magazine anyway?



''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''

Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

Ditto, ditto, ditto! Every word, Fleur!

 

[Alexiszoe]

Date: 1/27/2009 5:29:02 PM
Author: WishfulThinking
many women choose to work part time to be with families or lower-paying jobs that come with less stress. That''s totally great, and one of the wonderful things about today''s world is that both women and men are loosely able to make these choices for themselves and choose what fits best with them and their lifestyle. However, woman in general [HUGE generalizations] are socialized to deal with stress differently than men are, and often taught to avoid it in careers because they are not emotionally stable enough to handle it.

I agree, and I think women looking for lower paying jobs is not just because of stress, but also because expectations are lower (i.e not having to put in 13 hour days but going home on the dot) so that they can spend time with the children. As for the concept of women not being emotionally stable to handle stress compared to men, this brings in the whole argument of the emotional/rational, female/male dichotomy which brings in the ascribing and valuation of ''male traits'', and women as Other which I think is problematic too.

 

[misskitty]

Date: 1/27/2009 12:38:45 PM
Author: tlh

Date: 1/14/2009 10:47:13 PM

Author: fleur-de-lis



ITA and had a similar experience. I used to subscribe to Elle, but there was one issue this last year-- maybe May or June, perhaps someone else read it(?)-- where EVERY single article seemed selected to make women feel inadequate. After perusing about micro-liposuction, toe-shortening surgery to look good in sandals and have ''flirt-worthy feet'', how all the fashionable women are getting micro-eyelifts on their days off, botox and how new-gen injectables by age 26 as preventative action against impending crinkles around the eyes so that men on the street will flirt with you again is the new norm for the ladies who lunch, I was done. Blech. No advance preview of designer collections nor tips on new makeup innovations are worth it. Who are the women-hating editors of the magazine, and if they hate their fellow women so much why did they join on the staff of a WOMEN''S magazine anyway?




''Don''t get too threatened. Women still only make 75 cents for every dollar a man makes.''


Geez, Circe, I''d be tempted to rip this article out, circle this line in a highlighter pen, staple it to the front of the magazine, and mail it to the editor with a thank-you note for reminding you as a woman that the power and money decks are so stacked against you that you''ve decided your first order of business is to never spend five of your dollars on THEIR product again. (''My fiance tried explaining it to me that it''s like it represents $6.33 of the money he earns to buy it, but since we womenfolk are notoriously bad with numbers I''ll just take his word for it. Math is hard!'')

Circe, which magazine is it, so I''ll never buy it?

You know I always wonder about this statistic. Do they actually take a woman w/ the same amount of experience in a job and compare it to a man in the same profession on the same level? Or is everyone lumped together in one pot... because if that is the case, there are a lot of women I know who CHOOSE to work part time so they can be with their families, and are happier to take jobs that aren''t top paying because of low stress levels. Which I think is a great option... but I digress.

But then again, I can use this as ammo against my hubby and make him spend 25% of his salary on my baubles! That spoonful of sugar, makes that crap go down!

Not a bad idea!