Emerald Cut - Expert Advice Please

[helent]

I have just read the thread on Brian Gavin's ideal cut grade ECs. I feel the same as Kenny as I have spent many years reading about ECs and am still none the wiser on what cut will provide the best light performance. I have wanted to buy a stone for the last 12 months or so but have not been able to focus on choosing a stone but finally have some time again. I am hoping the experts who have been providing their input on the previous post will kindly provide their feedback on the following two stones.

Stone 1 -
5.01 ct, E VVS1, Polish and Symmetry Exc, Table 67%; Depth 60.9%; Girdle thin to medium, no fluorescence

Stone 2 -
4.61 ct, D VVS2, Polish and Symmetry Exc, Table 62%, Depth 66.6%, Girdle thick, no fluorescence
I have a video for this stone - http://up.diacam360.com/scan/ac59_146815

I look forward to hearing back from you and understand that I may have still got this terribly wrong and that both stones are not ones you would recommend.

I am based in Australia and am dealing with a merchant in Hong Kong who has provided the second stone and a merchant in Australia who has provided the first stone.

Thank you in advance!
Helent

 

[Matthews1127]

Diamond #2:
l am greatly concerned about this dark area that does not light up, even during rotation. It’s beautiful, but to have facets that are lifeless in an EC is the kiss of death.
What is your budget? Are you open to suggestions? If so, what are your preferences? How will you set the stone?

 

[Matthews1127]

@Karl_K @Todd Gray
@Rockdiamond @oldminer
Please weigh in?
Perhaps #2 is better than it seems? ASET may need to be acquired to determine its performance?

 

[LawmaLlama]

I'm more concerned about stone 1 because you have no idea what that bad boy looks like. It isn't very deep with a larger table. Not necessarily bad, but it could be a flat, glassy, lifeless hunk.

On the other hand, for stone 2, my guess is that one step may show up as leakage. But no EC is perfect. I'm not crazy about a thick girdle, but with that carat weight, heck - who cares? If you can get an ASET on that one to further consider, it might be a worthwhile stone.

 

[Matthews1127]

I'm more concerned about stone 1 because you have no idea what that bad boy looks like. It isn't very deep with a larger table. Not necessarily bad, but it could be a flat, glassy, lifeless hunk.

On the other hand, for stone 2, my guess is that one step may show up as leakage. But no EC is perfect. I'm not crazy about a thick girdle, but with that carat weight, heck - who cares? If you can get an ASET on that one to further consider, it might be a worthwhile stone.

My thoughts, exactly, on stone 1. Too shallow. Likely a disaster....
Without more visual aids, difficult to know for certain or give any further advice. Far from an expert, but quite knowledgeable, regarding step-Cuts. The experts/professionals l tagged in my above post have been extremely helpful in teaching me so much about step Cuts. l sincerely hope they make their way to this post; their expertise is priceless!!!

 

[Karl_K]

67t and 60%d could very well be a nice diamond.

The other one the video quality leaves a lot to be desired.
The deep black background makes it hard to tell leakage from obstruction(black camera lens).

@Matthews1127 the area you circled eventually flashes but is a bit slow.
Might not be an issue in person viewing.

Bottom line there isn't enough info for either diamond to make a decision or form a helpful opinion.

 

[Matthews1127]

67t and 60%d could very well be a nice diamond.

The other one the video quality leaves a lot to be desired.
The deep black background makes it hard to tell leakage from obstruction(black camera lens).

@Matthews1127 the area you circled eventually flashes but is a bit slow.
Might not be an issue in person viewing.

Bottom line there isn't enough info for either diamond to make a decision or form a helpful opinion.

@Karl_K: could stone 1 be a nice diamond, in spite of the table v depth % due to P3 placement? Or, are you imagining a different scenario that would explain why the long table, and shallow depth could produce a strong performer? l realize without more info, and visual aids, it’s difficult to speculate; just trying to understand what you’re thinking.

 

[Karl_K]

@Matthews1127
Experience and design know how.
67% tabled ECs can go either way or be more of blend, more modern looking or a bright classic style with the proper angle and placement relationship of the rest of the facets and corners. Or they can be less than stellar if the rest isn't there.
Pretty much the same with 60% there is enough room in 60% depth to have a reasonable crown height and matching pavilion and corners.
Not common however and tricky to get right.
Comes down to patterns, facet angles/placement and corners.

 

[Karl_K]

Now, all that said many shallow EC and SE diamonds are cut with overly long and steep p2 facets and super shallow p3 angles, resulting in p3 issues.
This is done to keep weight with shallow rough.
So your not wrong wondering about it and there is a good chance your right.
There is no proof either way, it is something to check.

 

[Matthews1127]

@Matthews1127
Experience and design know how.
67% tabled ECs can go either way or be more of blend, more modern looking or a bright classic style with the proper angle and placement relationship of the rest of the facets and corners. Or they can be less than stellar if the rest isn't there.
Pretty much the same with 60% there is enough room in 60% depth to have a reasonable crown height and matching pavilion and corners.
Not common however and tricky to get right.
Comes down to patterns, facet angles/placement and corners.

Now, all that said many shallow EC and SE diamonds are cut with overly long and steep p2 facets and super shallow p3 angles, resulting in p3 issues.
This is done to keep weight with shallow rough.
So your not wrong wondering about it and there is a good chance your right.
There is no proof either way, it is something to check.

@Karl_K
Very interesting, indeed. Hopefully, OP will be able to provide more info, and visual aids to try to answer these questions, and determine if stone 1 is a stud or a dud!
Thank you so much for your reply!!

 

[helent]

Thank you for all the input Karl K, LawmaLlama and Matthews1127 I am definitely open to suggestions please.

My budget is USD 150,000 - 190,000. I would prefer of course to be closer to USD150,000 as I have to consider import tax here but I definitely want a good quality stone so would chose a smaller stone rather than a dud. My preference is a D/E colour as I tend to easily see hints of yellow but I am open to a lower colour if that is your recommendation. I don't want a square or long stone so I think I want the l/w ratio to be no less than 1.35 and no more than 1.4. From my readings I would prefer the clarity to be no less than VVS2 and would like polish and symmetry to be Exc. The stone will be set in a simple band with no additional stones.

I hope I am not asking for the impossible and if any of the above is not what you would recommend please let me know.

I have been waiting for a long time to purchase this stone so if your can't find anything for me to consider I hope you will let me know that and I will happily sit back and wait to get a stone you all give the thumbs up.

Thank you again for your advice - this is a big purchase so very much appreciated.

Helent

 

[LawmaLlama]

With that kind of budget, I suggest you choose a vendor to work on your behalf to find something amazing. Leave nothing to chance and make sure the vendor can provide ASETs and video of performance in varied lighting situations.

 

[Matthews1127]

With that kind of budget, I suggest you choose a vendor to work on your behalf to find something amazing. Leave nothing to chance and make sure the vendor can provide ASETs and video of performance in varied lighting situations.

This is great advice!! Best to have your vendor do the work & let you decide what passes your test!
@Karl_K, and others can probably direct you. GOG & GemConcepts come to mind with step Cuts, right off the bat...
Not sure if there are limitations due to your location, but worth a shot.

 

[Karl_K]

Australia wont be a problem for many retailers, they do it all the time.
You want to stay in the super safe and added rarity range and that is fine.
F color is also super safe but if you want to stay in D/E that is fine.
Vg polish and vg symmetry is safe the vast majority of the time especially when working with a vendor who can review the stone in person for you.

Work with a vendor to get you pictures, video and ASET and post them here for review by the awesome prosumers as well as the vendors opinion of the stone.

 

[helent]

Are you able to express an opinion on vendors also Karl K? I note you are in the trade so appreciate you may not be allowed to do so in this forum.

PS are you still posting as strmrdr? I haven't had much time in the last few years to engage in Pricescope but I used to love reading your input!

Helent

 

[Karl_K]

Are you able to express an opinion on vendors also Karl K? I note you are in the trade so appreciate you may not be allowed to do so in this forum.

PS are you still posting as strmrdr? I haven't had much time in the last few years to engage in Pricescope but I used to love reading your input!

Helent

No, I cant comment on vendors being in the trade.
I just post as karl_k these days. strmrdr was my consumer account.
I miss my old name!

 

[OoohShiny]

Would a custom cut be a possible option? It would have to be through someone with the skills to cut something amazing, though, not just any old vendor/cutter!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Hi Helent
Congratulations- how exciting!!
When clients ask us for VVS and EX/EX we discuss the implications.
For example- when it comes to rare stones ( like 5 ct emerald cuts) it makes more sense to look more holisticly. It's entirely possible that a stone of only good polish or symmetry will be far more appealing than a stone which is EX. The reason is that other factors are far more obvious.
Things like corner size and the way the steps react to light.
Same for clarity. I can understand wanting high clarity. But I'd ask why. If it's a case of "mind clean" there's no compromise. But if a person is looking for a great stone that is completely eye clean, many VS stones are eye clean - and even a percentage of SI graded large emerald cuts are eye clean.
Again- with a stone of this magnitude the main visual characteristics have more to do with shape, and light performance.
One area I would not question is a person who has seen diamonds and knows that they are color sensitive.
Some people look at an H color and see it as yellow. if that's the case, and you want colorless I would not advise compromising on color.
Hope this helps!!

 

[helent]

Hi All,

I have another option to consider:

5.03 ct, D VVS2, Polish and Symmetry Exc, Table 65%; Depth 66.2%; Girdle slightly thick to thick, no fluorescence.

A little too deep?

I have attached a photo but not an ASET image as they don't seem to be available outside of the US.

Looking forward to your responses.

Thank you,
Helent

 

[valeria101]

.
I am not worried about the depth ... As far as I know, it would not be considered a detraction until beyond 75%, and may not have an adverse effect on brilliance even then.

The picture shows a wide, dark ring mid-way between the keel & the girdle - a less than endearing optical effect (a window or a reflector - dead or dark). The question is if this band that in the usual viewing conditions, or not. Perhaps just a quibble - then again, these things aim high.

2c

__
Nb. my taste in diamonds goes highwire & back ! WWW

 

[Karl_K]

Way over obstructed in the photo and limited light direction + a black background make it rather useless.
Its about the same as looking at the diamond from 3 inches away with black paper behind it.
In other words it doesn't tell you what it will look like in the real world.

Ask them to take some shots on a persons hand, both close ups and from a distance if they wont do ASET.

 

[helent]

Hi everyone - I am hoping this will be third time lucky! Can I please have some feedback on this stone:

5.02 ct, E VVS2, Polish and Symmetry Exc, Table 69%; Depth 67.7%; Girdle slightly thick, no fluorescence.

This is a link to a three D image - https://segoma.com/v.aspx?type=view&id=IRB4903JFF

And following is a photo on a hand. I also have a video of the stone on a hand - can someone please advise how to upload the video?

I look forward to hearing back from you. Thank you, Helent

 

[LawmaLlama]

This is a personal preference, but I'm not crazy about all of the steps being wide and "off" at the same time (dark when dead of center in the 3d imagery). It makes me guess that the ASET is bad. Do you have one?

 

[tyty333]

Would not work for me. Faces up with too many steps "off" (dark) and that one step is way wide compared to all the other steps.
I prefer my steps of somewhat similar size.

Would like to see the video though...I've never loaded one...hoping someone else can help there.

But you're seeing it in person...how do you feel about it?

 

[JmeeMrie]

Hi Helent
Congratulations- how exciting!!
When clients ask us for VVS and EX/EX we discuss the implications.
For example- when it comes to rare stones ( like 5 ct emerald cuts) it makes more sense to look more holisticly. It's entirely possible that a stone of only good polish or symmetry will be far more appealing than a stone which is EX. The reason is that other factors are far more obvious.
Things like corner size and the way the steps react to light.
Same for clarity. I can understand wanting high clarity. But I'd ask why. If it's a case of "mind clean" there's no compromise. But if a person is looking for a great stone that is completely eye clean, many VS stones are eye clean - and even a percentage of SI graded large emerald cuts are eye clean.
Again- with a stone of this magnitude the main visual characteristics have more to do with shape, and light performance.
One area I would not question is a person who has seen diamonds and knows that they are color sensitive.
Some people look at an H color and see it as yellow. if that's the case, and you want colorless I would not advise compromising on color.
Hope this helps!!

This is such a great explanation. It is sometimes hard to relay this without sounding like I am trying to convince someone of something, but you did a great job here.

 

[valeria101]

.

I am a 'large step' fan, so this is on my taste, for sure ... The respective broad steps look very bright in the video & everything lights up within a rspctable 30 degrees or so left & right (sum 60) from the front position - and this is what I am looking for too. The ASET should be quite red (i.e. all good), methinks.

Of course EC may look very different inded ! This wants to be a lighthouse (mirror), it seems ,-) I somehow doubt that ths is much in the local taste & I do know what I am trading off.

 

[valeria101]

.

Digressing,

Just noticed - www 'broad steps' !?, that are not steps at all ... Your EC is very tame & straightforward compared to the unusual objects I tend to