Emerald cabochon - does this inclusion pose structural problems?

[Autumn in New England]

I got my stones back from GRS and it always makes me chuckle how precious gems travel in flimsy plastic bags

Looking forward to setting these! I was wondering if anyone has any experience with setting stones that have wavy or rounded girdles? I’ve read that bezels and semi bezels are best, but would love to hear some first hand experience!

(It also helps that I plan to fully bezel the emerald, and semi-bezels the spess!)

(Also, please forgive the terrible lighting at my kitchen table after dark.)

I'm glad to see fine cabs getting more love on this board. They truly look like candy and edible!!

 

[Starstruck8]

Looking forward to setting these! I was wondering if anyone has any experience with setting stones that have wavy or rounded girdles? I’ve read that bezels and semi bezels are best, but would love to hear some first hand experience!

For inspiration, maybe look at historical examples (because faceting is modern, historically). E.g. search for 'medieval sapphire ring':

L: Black Prince's 'ruby' (actually spinel)
R: Medieval sapphire ring

I have no stones with irregular girdles, but some cabochons without sharp girdles and with deep bases:

Top Left: Spess, swoopy setting, to let the light in.
Top Right: Opal, faux bezel with long prongs.
Lower Left: Fire Opal, held at the ends.
Lower Right: Maw sit sit, bezel and just bury the base,

Also, look at the star stone thread. Many star stones lack sharp girdles:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-your-star-sapphires-and-rubies.231433/

 

[Pomelo]

I think you can prong set if you have a metal faux bezel like how I set my star sapphire. But probably bezel would be the look you want anyway. You’ll need a good bench! Seems it would require a lot of skill to design and set.

Thanks! Yes, I’m a bit worried about finding a good bench tbh, esp since I want to set the emerald in platinum (which can be a tough duo to work with).

I'm glad to see fine cabs getting more love on this board. They truly look like candy and edible!!

Hehe thanks!

For inspiration, maybe look at historical examples (because faceting is modern, historically). E.g. search for 'medieval sapphire ring':

L: Black Prince's 'ruby' (actually spinel)
R: Medieval sapphire ring

I have no stones with irregular girdles, but some cabochons without sharp girdles and with deep bases:

Top Left: Spess, swoopy setting, to let the light in.
Top Right: Opal, faux bezel with long prongs.
Lower Left: Fire Opal, held at the ends.
Lower Right: Maw sit sit, bezel and just bury the base,

Also, look at the star stone thread. Many star stones lack sharp girdles:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/show-your-star-sapphires-and-rubies.231433/

Great point about historical stones! I’ll definitely have a look!

Really interesting that you mentioned setting your spess with a swoop setting to let light in… Do you think I should try to go for prongs as much as possible for cabs given that they have different light return properties to faceted stones?

I was planning on fully bezelling the emerald but I’d hate to de-glow it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I avoided bezelling my star sapphire after I had a Negative experience where the bench cracked my original star sapphire while trying to bezel it. I found the bezel swallowed my star and negatively impacted its appearance, too. Prong setting was much better. Not sure your stone would be so impacted, but that was my experience.

 

[Pomelo]

I avoided bezelling my star sapphire after I had a Negative experience where the bench cracked my original star sapphire while trying to bezel it. I found the bezel swallowed my star and negatively impacted its appearance, too. Prong setting was much better. Not sure your stone would be so impacted, but that was my experience.

Ooh I needed to hear this, thanks @Dreamer_D !

 

[Starstruck8]

Really interesting that you mentioned setting your spess with a swoop setting to let light in… Do you think I should try to go for prongs as much as possible for cabs given that they have different light return properties to faceted stones?

Yes. For transparent-ish cabs with deep bases, you don't want to block light from the sides. (Note that my maw sit sit above is opaque, so the full bezel is fine.) Your emerald and spess have deep bases, so a full bezel would have to be above half-way up the stone to hold them properly. This would block a lot of light. The tsavorite (I think) has a flatter base, so a full bezel might work.

Have you considered a pendant? This could permit a more open setting, with less worry about protection. But then you wouldn't get to see it...

 

[Pomelo]

Yes. For transparent-ish cabs with deep bases, you don't want to block light from the sides. (Note that my maw sit sit above is opaque, so the full bezel is fine.) Your emerald and spess have deep bases, so a full bezel would have to be above half-way up the stone to hold them properly. This would block a lot of light. The tsavorite (I think) has a flatter base, so a full bezel might work.

Have you considered a pendant? This could permit a more open setting, with less worry about protection. But then you wouldn't get to see it...

Thank you for elaborating!

Heheheh, no chance of a pendant. These puppies will have to be prized off my cold dead fingers.

You referred to the setting as a “swoop” setting, but I saw someone comment on the Stars thread that they’re dragon claws! I like the idea of dragon claws although it may mean I have to give up on the super sleek and minimalist bezel idea.

Here are my two original designs btw - would love to hear what you (and others) think! I have no idea whether they’ll be replicable in metal.



Sorry ETA:
Thanks for remembering that the tsav is a flat-based stone. It’s already been sent off to be set (as I didn’t send the stone to GRS). It was set in a bezel and here’s the CAD. I should be getting it in the next couple of weeks.

Also, your maw sit sit looks like a miniature watermelon, in the best sense! I love it!

 

[Dreamer_D]

The issue star struck raised is exactly why I didn’t like the bezel on my star that was damaged. So much of the base was covered!

My star is set like this now with what I suppose could be called dragon claws. I saw many antique examples of cabs set like mine, often with a narrowed lip of metal.


. I think you can achieve essentially the look you want with claws, with some careful design. But you’d have to find some examples online.

 

[Starstruck8]

Here are my two original designs btw - would love to hear what you (and others) think! I have no idea whether they’ll be replicable in metal.

I love those minimalist concepts! I would wear them! But I've never seen similar examples, so cannot say whether they are practicable. You would certainly need a creative jeweller (who may ask a 'creative' price...).

Maybe you could add a 'seat' near the bottom of the stone, joining both sides of the setting. This would give structural stability. You could design it to be invisible from most angles, so as not spoil the minimalism. Alternatively, but less minimalist, you could add lower bars, to make a sort of cage.

The dragon claw concept could work. Here is one from my inspiration folder:


This is way too gothic and haloween-y for you, I think, but it shows an idea. Again, with your irregularly shaped stones, you would need a good designer to make the claws look right.

Also, your maw sit sit looks like a miniature watermelon, in the best sense! I love it!

Thank you!

 

[Dreamer_D]

I love those minimalist concepts! I would wear them! But I've never seen similar examples, so cannot say whether they are practicable. You would certainly need a creative jeweller (who may ask a 'creative' price...).

Maybe you could add a 'seat' near the bottom of the stone, joining both sides of the setting. This would give structural stability. You could design it to be invisible from most angles, so as not spoil the minimalism. Alternatively, but less minimalist, you could add lower bars, to make a sort of cage.

The dragon claw concept could work. Here is one from my inspiration folder:


This is way too gothic and haloween-y for you, I think, but it shows an idea. Again, with your irregularly shaped stones, you would need a good designer to make the claws look right.


Thank you!

This is just gothic enough for me!

@Pomelo if you search for art deco star sapphires you will see more minimalist designs with prongs.

 

[glitterata]

I have a deep trapiche emerald that tends to go dark; it was hard to get the star pattern to show up well. I put in a sort of modified crown setting designed to let in the light at the sides. I had the jeweler give it a "floor" underneath the stone to reflect light out and make the trapiche pattern show up better. It's not the most elegant thing in the world, but it does the job. Maybe this concept will help you come up with something pleasing?

 

[Pomelo]

The issue star struck raised is exactly why I didn’t like the bezel on my star that was damaged. So much of the base was covered!

My star is set like this now with what I suppose could be called dragon claws. I saw many antique examples of cabs set like mine, often with a narrowed lip of metal.


. I think you can achieve essentially the look you want with claws, with some careful design. But you’d have to find some examples online.

Thank you!

A concern I have is whether the emerald’s girdle will remain exposed enough for it to be easily damaged. My vintage Cartier emerald is badly beaten up…

However, a variation on this setting would work for the spess as there is an adjoining bar underneath to @Starstruck8 ’s excellent point about structural stability.

I’ll draw up a few more sketches!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Thank you!

A concern I have is whether the emerald’s girdle will remain exposed enough for it to be easily damaged. My vintage Cartier emerald is badly beaten up…

However, a variation on this setting would work for the spess as there is an adjoining bar underneath to @Starstruck8 ’s excellent point about structural stability.

I’ll draw up a few more sketches!

Yes a version of that would work well for the spess. I like that design a lot. It’s not uncommon so shouldn’t be so hard to explain.

It’s a tough trade off for the emerald — protect it but hav sit covered vs enjoy seeing it but risk damage. I feel sure there is a solution.

 

[Pomelo]

I have a deep trapiche emerald that tends to go dark; it was hard to get the star pattern to show up well. I put in a sort of modified crown setting designed to let in the light at the sides. I had the jeweler give it a "floor" underneath the stone to reflect light out and make the trapiche pattern show up better. It's not the most elegant thing in the world, but it does the job. Maybe this concept will help you come up with something pleasing?

Thank you! This is a great design to hold both stones, and the “floor” does a good job! (is the terminology the same as foil-back? It’s used in jadeite settings a lot for the same purpose as to reflect light)

I’m struggling to decide whether to insert a foil back into the design of these rings because a part of me wants to see them without any extra help from below, but I know it’ll make the stone brighter.

Again, borrowing from icy jadeite, one look has more depth whereas the other is brighter.

Top jadeite on ring finger has backing



No backing



Both backed

 

[Autumn in New England]

Thank you! This is a great design to hold both stones, and the “floor” does a good job! (is the terminology the same as foil-back? It’s used in jadeite settings a lot for the same purpose as to reflect light)

I’m struggling to decide whether to insert a foil back into the design of these rings because a part of me wants to see them without any extra help from below, but I know it’ll make the stone brighter.

Again, borrowing from icy jadeite, one look has more depth whereas the other is brighter.

Top jadeite on ring finger has backing



No backing



Both backed

I have no problem backing a cab with metal. I don't think it's cheating at all! For the really translucent material, it brings a lot of life to the stone.

 

[glitterata]

Thank you! This is a great design to hold both stones, and the “floor” does a good job! (is the terminology the same as foil-back? It’s used in jadeite settings a lot for the same purpose as to reflect light)

I called it a "floor" because I didn't know the correct term! From now on I'll call it foil-back.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I have no problem with backing but I always wonder if there’s gunk growing secretly between the metal and my stone. Mind you with no backing, gunk definitely gets into the open spaces.

 

[glitterata]

I have no problem with backing but I always wonder if there’s gunk growing secretly between the metal and my stone. Mind you with no backing, gunk definitely gets into the open spaces.

Mine is not sealed underneath--it has slots in the sides so I can clean under the stone.

 

[Pomelo]

I have no problem backing a cab with metal. I don't think it's cheating at all! For the really translucent material, it brings a lot of life to the stone.

Hehe, I’ll need to play around with it, to see whether adding a foil back (or indeed a cup) works with the overall aesthetic. Also, because the bottom is not flat, I wonder if a foil back would work / be noticeable when viewed from the top of the stone.

I’m keen to have the side of the stone be visible, as I love that it’s shaped like a turtle shell!

I have no problem with backing but I always wonder if there’s gunk growing secretly between the metal and my stone. Mind you with no backing, gunk definitely gets into the open spaces.

Finger cheese…

For jadeite, the foil backing is sometimes completely sealed and not openable (unlike the back of my jadeite pendant).

However, I asked the jeweller about gunk and she said that a type of glue / resin / sealant is stuck around the perimeter of the stone where it meets the setting, so water cannot get inside. I guess a bit like silicone around a bathroom fixture…

Mine is not sealed underneath--it has slots in the sides so I can clean under the stone.

Ah I see that now, thanks!

 

[Crimson]

I got my stones back from GRS and it always makes me chuckle how precious gems travel in flimsy plastic bags

I was similarly surprised when I met a well – known jadeite supplier who happened to be in Singapore.
He carried kilograms of his jadeite in grocery bags. Some of the necklaces were worth $1 million or more. I suppose that’s one way to avoid attention.
He even casually left his grocery bags behind on the counter of one of the retail stores while he went to the washroom. He said nobody would know what was inside

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

I was similarly surprised when I met a well – known jadeite supplier who happened to be in Singapore.
He carried kilograms of his jadeite in grocery bags. Some of the necklaces were worth $1 million or more. I suppose that’s one way to avoid attention.
He even casually left his grocery bags behind on the counter of one of the retail stores while he went to the washroom. He said nobody would know what was inside

That’s why I wear $5 AliExpress bags, $20 AliExpress dresses and $15 AliExpress wigs around town! The jewellery looks like it’s from AliExpress as well!

 

[Pomelo]

I was similarly surprised when I met a well – known jadeite supplier who happened to be in Singapore.
He carried kilograms of his jadeite in grocery bags. Some of the necklaces were worth $1 million or more. I suppose that’s one way to avoid attention.
He even casually left his grocery bags behind on the counter of one of the retail stores while he went to the washroom. He said nobody would know what was inside

Haha I’m going to be casually checking out other people’s grocery bags from now on…!

On the topic of setting an emerald cab though, do you find that your halo is very protective of the centre stone?

I’d still prefer to bezel the girdle for protection purposes (as I’ve dropped various rings on the bathroom tiles before, eek), but am conscious of Starstruck’s comments about letting in as much light as possible!

That’s why I wear $5 AliExpress bags, $20 AliExpress dresses and $15 AliExpress wigs around town! The jewellery looks like it’s from AliExpress as well!

Hahaha we need to save up for gemstones somehow!

 

[Crimson]

[

That’s why I wear $5 AliExpress bags, $20 AliExpress dresses and $15 AliExpress wigs around town! The jewellery looks like it’s from AliExpress as well!

@mellowyellowgirl You are well on your way to being a jadeite supplier You look so nice anyway! Are you sure it’s not the other way around that people think your clothes and recovery because of your your jewellery?

Haha I’m going to be casually checking out other people’s grocery bags from now on…!
On the topic of setting an emerald cab though, do you find that your halo is very protective of the centre stone?

Haha, @Pomelo, nowadays when I see casually dressed men with unusually stuffed pockets and carrying rather heavy bags, I wonder if they are jewellery suppliers. Another time when I met the same supplier, his pockets were bulging. When he pulled out a few items and lay them out I realised I was looking at a few million dollars worth of stuff. It must take some nerve to just walk around like that.

Re: the halo, Minerva has a nice and wide enough halo that protects her from the side. However there is nothing to protect her high dome. I sometimes wonder whether I should get an acrylic cover for Minerva
Or maybe buy two higher rings and wear one in either side of Minerva, like bodyguards. The star sapphire gobstopper might work.

 

[Pomelo]

I’ve been playing around with whether the emerald needs a foil back. It has a window at the centre of the stone due to the concave back.

Would love to hear your thoughts?
Without the foil, I feel the emerald has more depth but front-on the window could be a bit dark.

Top is with foil, bottom is without

Imgur videos here

https://imgur.com/a/lBXdKxJ

 

[Crimson]

I’ve been playing around with whether the emerald needs a foil back. It has a window at the centre of the stone due to the concave back.

Would love to hear your thoughts?
Without the foil, I feel the emerald has more depth but front-on the window could be a bit dark.

Top is with foil, bottom is without

Imgur videos here

https://imgur.com/a/lBXdKxJ

With foil, the emerald seems lighter-toned and less saturated.
Without, the colour seems better but the dark patches are obvious.
I suppose it is still better with foil?

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

In the photos no foil looks much better to my eyes as the colour is much more rich.

In the video foil looks better and makes the stone a bit brighter BUT I feel like the gain is not huge and you do lose a bit of saturation. Given my dislike of backing I would be team no backing on this. Gains are not big enough for me.

 

[Pomelo]

With foil, the emerald seems lighter-toned and less saturated.
Without, the colour seems better but the dark patches are obvious.
I suppose it is still better with foil?

In the photos no foil looks much better to my eyes as the colour is much more rich.

In the video foil looks better and makes the stone a bit brighter BUT I feel like the gain is not huge and you do lose a bit of saturation. Given my dislike of backing I would be team no backing on this. Gains are not big enough for me.

Ooh interesting that you have opposing views!

I just realised that the easiest thing to do to NOT foil back, live with the ring for a few days/weeks, and see whether it bugs me.

I also think that there could be a halfway-house solution, whereby the foil is not a solid piece but rather cross-hatched / mesh-like, so it doesn't create as strong a backing. I guess a bit like seeing baskets underneath with lots of metalwork.

Separately - I've got a new iPhone and it's stripped my emerald of all its blue!! Normally phone cameras love blue but I can't seem to get it back... probably my poor photo skills when the light was fading, grr

 

[Dreamer_D]

I kind of like the feeling of depth that it has without foil. I like staring into my gems. Also with cabs when worn I find I’m often looking at it slightly from the side and I don’t imagine foil helps much with that.

And enclosed setting does seem like a good middle grounds.

 

[Lentibulariaceae]

Personally, the stone with the foil makes it look like glass or a rhinestone. The varying levels of darkness and shifting it does without foil makes it look deep and rich and real.

You could also do a fully close backed bezel, it seems to save some of the “depth” in my experience.

 

[mellowyellowgirl]

Personally, the stone with the foil makes it look like glass or a rhinestone. The varying levels of darkness and shifting it does without foil makes it look deep and rich and real.

You could also do a fully close backed bezel, it seems to save some of the “depth” in my experience.

Beautifully worded! This is what I was trying to say with my word salad!!!!