Ebola arrives in America tomorrow on a fancy private jet

[kenny]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/...index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Some African countries are currently fighting an outbreak of Ebola, a highly-contagious disease that kills up to 90% of those infected by liquifying internal organs.
There is no vaccine or cure.
Health care workers wear hazmat suits.

"The Ebola outbreak in West Africa is spreading faster than efforts to control it, World Health Organization (WHO) head Margaret Chan has said.
Hundreds of US Peace Corps volunteers have already been evacuated from the West African countries."
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-28610112

Two American health care workers working in Africa with Ebola victims have somehow contracted Ebola and want to come home.
This will introduce Ebola to America.
The first patient arrives tomorrow.

To bring them home the CDC is using a special jet with an isolation booth designed to protect the flight crew from infection.
The special jet will then return to Africa to get the other America victim, a doctor.
Both will be isolated at a hospital in Atlanta GA, one of only four US hospitals with appropriate isolation facilities.

Twitter is all atwitter.
There is great concern the virus may accidentally escape and spread in the US.
Officials are trying to allay fears.
Even the head of the CDC himself was interviewed by CNN, essentially saying containing the virus is not difficult if everyone does their job properly.

What say you?
Do you support bringing these two Americans home?
On one hand it seems the decent and noble thing to do.
On the other hand what if human error results in another worker getting infected and the virus getting out of the hospital?

 

[Karl_K]

Re: Ebola arrives in America tomorrow

I think its stupid there is nothing that can be done here that cant be done there.
I would support if they could be cured if brought here but that is not going to happen any better here.
Set up video conferencing on a tablet so they can say goodbye to loved ones if they are able and leave them there. The incinerate the tablet along with everything else when the time comes either way.

 

[arkieb1]

One of the leading Ebola doctors in Africa contracted it and died last week. Obviously it isn't that easy to contain. Only one person has to forget or mess up quarantine procedures and there could be another outbreak. Sending medicines and resources to African to help contain it there might be a more useful idea. The US is probably stuck I think in Australia that if any of our citizens that have medical insurance contract anything like this their health companies by law have to medi-vac them back to Australia which if they are critical is done by air.

I guess on the bright side they get a controlled run at how to deal with and handle and manage something like it, so they will learn a lot and be better equipped to deal with this sort of thing if it ever happens in the US.

 

[justginger]

Re: Ebola arrives in America tomorrow

I think its stupid there is nothing that can be done here that cant be done there.
I would support if they could be cured if brought here but that is not going to happen any better here.
Set up video conferencing on a tablet so they can say goodbye to loved ones if they are able and leave them there. The incinerate the tablet along with everything else when the time comes either way.

I don't think this is true. The fatality rates of this outbreak are very high, but thankfully lower than the previous Zaire outbreak. Death arises in part due to the fact that the facilities and care in W Africa are, well, third world. I have zero doubt that the CDC headquarter facilities, with their PC4 setup, are a) safely contained and b) light years ahead in terms of patient care and quarantine ability (I imagine it would be particularly detrimental for someone with an immune system successfully locked in a viral battle to be re-exposed, which is plausible in normal W African healthcare settings). It would also be possibly to try a great number of last ditch Hail Mary drugs in Atlanta that wouldn't be accessible in Africa.

I genuinely don't know what to think. It is a risk, but in this case extreme duty of care is being exercised - the real risk of spread probably lies in an unknown person travelling with a sore throat. But the level of care these two would receive in the States could indeed swing the odds more in their favour for survival. I would not want to be the person making the call on whether or not to bring them home.

With the number of international visitors from Africa to Australia, especially Australian miners employed in fly in/fly out arrangements to that region, are concerning. We have a policy now established at our tertiary hospital of how to handle potentially infectious specimens, because the true worry is that Perth has no PC4 level lab (which is what Ebola must be contained within). All of them are on the East Coast. As someone employed within the next closest thing, PC3, I am relieved that it is now our policy to only allow our most senior microbiologists to handle these materials. I suspect their method of handling will include a super-secure courier container and a one-way ticket for it to the CSIRO.

 

[kenny]

Check out the Bloomberg piece.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-08-01/who-invited-ebola-to-atlanta

 

[packrat]

Honestly? I think we in the US think we are invincible. Not even we-we, the powers that be-we. Maybe it's wrong of me, but I don't feel there are ever 100% safeguards 100% of the time that are 100% failsafe when imperfect humans are running the show. IF something were to happen, it would of course be thru no fault of anyone in power/control, it would of course be a random Virgin Mary "it just happened"circumstance. Ain't no way we'd hear "Yaaaaah dudes we *totally* fecked up and took the lives of the entire country for granted for these two people in our arrogance of how incredibly fail safe our fail safes are. oops."

And I read too much b/c the first thing that popped into my head was The Stand. Bring on the Captain Trips!

 

[missy]

I don't think we are at risk bringing our 2 Americans back. It is being done under completely controlled circumstances and you can only contract Ebola through contact with bodily fluids like blood, saliva or vomit. Ebola is relatively difficult to catch unlike respiratory diseases like colds and flu.

I would worry more about travelers coming here before they realize they are infected and then spreading it unwittingly. There is a greater risk for a global epidemic from travelers carrying the virus coming here before they are diagnosed since Ebola has a longer incubation period than many infectious diseases (21 days). So they could potentially transmit it to others here that way. But what we are doing bringing the Americans back is very different and carries (almost) 0 percent risk IMO.

 

[Trekkie]

I was wondering when this would get to PS!

I'm in South Africa and have had to reassure several friends overseas that I am 100% fine and that they're actually closer to the Ebola outbreak than I am. Africa is not a country! Sigh.

Despite this I am quite worried about the Ebola outbreak. I work for a university with a large number of students from elsewhere in Africa. One of them recently returned from a vacation to his home country with what was initially thought to be malaria but turned out to be something else... The state hospital in our shitty little town isn't very good, so it took a while before they figured out what it was. Thankfully it wasn't Ebola.

I honestly think the US is making a mistake by allowing the infected to return home. Even if this time goes without incident, it sets a precedent. What if they're not so careful the next time?

I know that Ebola will eventually get to South Africa. It did during the last outbreak when a wealthy patient came here for medical assistance. Fortunately it was contained. I don't know if we'll be so lucky next time.

What really worries me is how in Africa people who survive Ebola are killed and have their homes burnt down because their neighbours suspect witchcraft. Elsewhere in the world we'd be sticking needles into them in an effort to establish how they survived. Not in Africa...

My family and I actually have a plan of action should the Ebola outbreak reach South Africa. We're sorted in terms of water tanks and a generator and I've downloaded a list of essentials to stock up on. I don't intend to leave home until I get an all-clear!

Yeah, yeah, I sound like a prepper, but I'd rather be paranoid and prepared than unprepared.

I think I've read too much dystopian fiction.

 

[movie zombie]

apparently, this is the very first time we've allowed this class 4 of Live Infection into the country.
CDC is involved but we know about their errors in the past which for us luckily didn't create problems.
this luck may not always hold....
medical drs and equipment could have been sent there.

Trekkie, you are indeed a prepper and there is nothing wrong with that. your preparations are what I have read that people here should be doing. I assume you also put into storage bleach? it is perhaps the one thing I don't have on an ongoing basis.

and like you I've read too much of the same reading materials: one could argue that this is the perfect "storm" for reducing populations. first we were told how dangerous it is....and now the media is filled with articles on how it is not. makes one definitely wonder.........

eta: see you in detention? http://www.infowars.com/obama-signs-executive-order-to-detain-americans-with-respiratory-illnesses/ personally, I think this would keep people from seeking medical help and thereby make things worse for us all.

 

[momhappy]

Ebola in the US is inevitable. It will be here at some point and anyone who thinks otherwise is incredibly naive.
As far as the two, infected doctors being flown here, I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, I have compassion for them. On the other, it's simply too risky.

 

[Trekkie]

apparently, this is the very first time we've allowed this class 4 of Live Infection into the country.
CDC is involved but we know about their errors in the past which for us luckily didn't create problems.
this luck may not always hold....
medical drs and equipment could have been sent there.

Trekkie, you are indeed a prepper and there is nothing wrong with that. your preparations are what I have read that people here should be doing. I assume you also put into storage bleach? it is perhaps the one thing I don't have on an ongoing basis.

and like you I've read too much of the same reading materials: one could argue that this is the perfect "storm" for reducing populations. first we were told how dangerous it is....and now the media is filled with articles on how it is not. makes one definitely wonder.........

Completely agree that medical doctors and equipment could have been sent there. It is sheer insanity to allow infection into the US!

It is easy to say "oh, our staff are prepared" but even the doctors treating Ebola contracted it! If that doesn't tell you that people make mistakes, nothing will.

Yes, we have good, unscented bleach at home and it is on my list of things to stock up on should Ebola get to SA.

I'm not even waiting for it to get out of control - the moment there's a confirmed case here, I'm stocking up! My husband thinks I'm nuts but he's being supportive of my insanity so really, what more could one ask for? My only regret is that we don't have firearms, but I know where I can easily (albeit illegally) acquire those should the shit hit the fan.

People can laugh at my prepping as much as they like, but I'd rather be laughed at than unprepared!

 

[momhappy]

I was wondering when this would get to PS!

I'm in South Africa and have had to reassure several friends overseas that I am 100% fine and that they're actually closer to the Ebola outbreak than I am. Africa is not a country! Sigh.

Despite this I am quite worried about the Ebola outbreak. I work for a university with a large number of students from elsewhere in Africa. One of them recently returned from a vacation to his home country with what was initially thought to be malaria but turned out to be something else... The state hospital in our shitty little town isn't very good, so it took a while before they figured out what it was. Thankfully it wasn't Ebola.

I honestly think the US is making a mistake by allowing the infected to return home. Even if this time goes without incident, it sets a precedent. What if they're not so careful the next time?

I know that Ebola will eventually get to South Africa. It did during the last outbreak when a wealthy patient came here for medical assistance. Fortunately it was contained. I don't know if we'll be so lucky next time.

What really worries me is how in Africa people who survive Ebola are killed and have their homes burnt down because their neighbours suspect witchcraft. Elsewhere in the world we'd be sticking needles into them in an effort to establish how they survived. Not in Africa...

My family and I actually have a plan of action should the Ebola outbreak reach South Africa. We're sorted in terms of water tanks and a generator and I've downloaded a list of essentials to stock up on. I don't intend to leave home until I get an all-clear!

Yeah, yeah, I sound like a prepper, but I'd rather be paranoid and prepared than unprepared.

I think I've read too much dystopian fiction.

Nothing wrong with prepping Heck, my husband and I have thought seriously about installing some sort of bunker. We've got some materials, supplies, etc., but we don't have a formal plan should some catastrophic event occur. I'd like to be a bit more prepared, but I don't want to get too nutty with it.

 

[movie zombie]

my hubby is certainly never as pessimistic as I am re these types of things and even he doesn't like the idea that they're flying these two into the US.......in his scenario it is: yeah, the CDC and hospital may be prepared, the plane may be "safe" and then it crashes into the city and perhaps no one knows which ones of the injured are the already infected as people are loaded into ambulances and taken to "unprepared" facilities handled by "unprepared" first responders. LOL, he too reads way too many dystopian novels...

 

[iLander]

I clipped this from an article about ebola:

Yet the pathogen itself is not particularly robust, and can be seen off with soap and hot water.

Epidemiologists point out that Ebola is relatively difficult to catch and isn't even airborne.

The virus requires contact with the bodily fluids of a victim -- their blood, urine, faeces, vomit, saliva or sweat -- to leap into a new host.

For those unlucky enough to catch Ebola, the disease it brings about is also treatable, say experts.

Patients who are kept hydrated, given paracetamol to keep their temperature in check and treated with antibiotics for secondary infections have a fighting chance of recovery.

But I still worry about the guys who clean that plane after everyone leaves . . .

 

[amc80]

Here's the thing. These people volunteered for their situation. Then knew the risks and knowingly accepted. So now we are going to put everyone else at risk because of their decisions?

I would be perfectly fine with bringing them home if, say, they were military members who found themselves in an infected area through no choice of their own.

 

[iLander]

Here's a picture of the CDC quarantine stations. Set up and maintained for Exactly this:

An excerpt from an article, which goes to show the '70's sucked in ways we didn't even realize;

A yellow fever outbreak led to the country's first quarantine center and hospital, set up in Philadelphia in 1799. In 1944, a new law gave the federal government the authority to quarantine people, a responsibility formally taken over by the CDC in 1967.

In the 1970s, according to the CDC, the number of quarantine stations was reduced "from 55 to 8 because infectious diseases were thought to be a thing of the past."

But within the past decade, fears of bioterrorism after September 11 and the 2003 SARS epidemic prompted the U.S. to more than double the number of quarantine stations. There are now 20 scattered across the U.S., primarily at "ports of entry and land-border crossings where international travelers arrive."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-quarantine-stations-ebola-2014-8#ixzz39FdLJRl7

 

[msop04]

Here's the thing. These people volunteered for their situation. Then knew the risks and knowingly accepted. So now we are going to put everyone else at risk because of their decisions?

I would be perfectly fine with bringing them home if, say, they were military members who found themselves in an infected area through no choice of their own.

I kind of agree with this... Gosh, I just don't know.

I can't help but have flashbacks of the movie Outbreak with Dustin Hoffman and the monkey.

 

[MMtwo]

I'm not worried about our capability to control this in America. There have been so many movies and zombie apocalypse movies that begin like this that it is a little unnerving. However, this is not an airborn influenza. My fiance is a medivac pilot and transports nasty bugs all the time. He and his med crew are okay. This is contageous like HIV, spread by body fluids.

 

[lioness]

I'm much more worried by the following scenario:

A flight from Heathrow lands at JFK. One of the passengers flew into London from West Africa on his way to NY. He has a sore throat. He coughs into his hand and then grasps the handrail as he walks down a flight of stairs. You're walking behind him, holding on to the handrail as well. You let go of momentarily to scratch an itch on your nose.

He is totally unaware that he is incubating Ebola.

You have now introduced Ebola into your body.

 

[Trekkie]

I'm not worried about our capability to control this in America. There have been so many movies and zombie apocalypse movies that begin like this that it is a little unnerving. However, this is not an airborn influenza. My fiance is a medivac pilot and transports nasty bugs all the time. He and his med crew are okay. This is contageous like HIV, spread by body fluids.

I guess that's fine for the US, but in my particular part of South Africa we're still struggling to get people to understand how HIV is passed on, 20+ years later. In my town we're still trying to get people to use a tissue when they sneeze instead of just using a hand and then wiping the goober off on the nearest available surface.

In view of this and the fact that we sometimes go weeks without running water, I am not hopeful that we would be able to contain the spread of Ebola in South Africa. Perhaps in Cape Town, possibly in parts of Johannesburg or Pretoria. Definitely not in my town.

Anyway, your point was specific to the US and I do agree that your chances of containing it this time are slightly better than ours.

 

[Karl_K]

One of the biggest dangers is that it mutates with another bug and goes airborne.
By moving it to different areas it has new bugs it may mix and match with.
There is not way of predicting if that will happen or not.
Moving it to a new area is dumb.

 

[movie zombie]

One of the biggest dangers is that it mutates with another bug and goes airborne.
By moving it to different areas it has new bugs it may mix and match with.
There is not way of predicting if that will happen or not.
Moving it to a new area is dumb.[/quote]

understatement!

 

[Trekkie]

One of the biggest dangers is that it mutates with another bug and goes airborne.
By moving it to different areas it has new bugs it may mix and match with.
There is not way of predicting if that will happen or not.
Moving it to a new area is dumb.[/quote]

understatement!

HUUUUUGE understatement!!

 

[kenny]

I suspect politics influenced the decision to bring these two home, along with their viral hitchhiker.
Faux 'News' would have had a field day bashing Obama if these two American heroes were abandoned by their country and left to die in Africa.
People in power like keeping their jobs instead of doing their jobs, which is to protect the American people.

One thing I love about America is its values.
But one thing I hate about America is how standing up for values can sometimes result in marching right off a cliff.
"Hey! We may be dead, but at least we were right!"

I'd prefer a more practical approach of protecting the masses and take my lumps by being called a heartless meanie for 'sacrificing' two lives.

Today we witness America doing wrong by 318,571,572 people so it can brag about being 'moral' by doing right by 2 people.
Perfect example of how brains get turned off and morality runs amok in pious self-righteous America.

 

[Kaleigh]

Nope don't think we should be doing this. Which shocks me because I am the first one after losing a brother to AIDS and all the hysteria back in the early 90's A lot was ignorant. This one?? IDK. I do have compassion, obv But also know it will come here eventually so am a bit of a realist as well. And don't really trust the CDC because of how they handeled HIV. So will stay tuned.

And those in S Africa, I would be stocking up too. Better to be prepared than SOL....Trekkie keep up posted!!!

Karl you are spot on....

 

[MissGotRocks]

My guess is that inevitably it will end up here in the US - one way or another. Perhaps having these patients back here will give scientists a leg up in trying to come up with a cure. I too hate to see the country take the risk but at the same time if it were me, I'm guessing I'd be very grateful to get back to this country.

These volunteers are doing work that I would not do and that probably makes me less humane than they are. Shame on me. I just don't think that by helping others you should be completely ostracized if you contract the disease you are trying to treat. While I fear for our safety, I don't think I could be so cold as to say 'sorry about your luck'. Just seems wrong on lots of levels and yet at the same time, if a family member of mine were infected as a consequence of the help, I'm sure I'd feel differently. Hard call for me.

 

[canuk-gal]

HI:

I pray for their health and welfare because goodness knows there might not be anything else.

NIMBY is a (painful) reality.

Sharon

 

[momhappy]

I just saw a news story - they showed the plane that was specially-equipped to handle the patients, the team of vehicles & staff that it took to transport the first patient to the hospital, etc. It made me wonder, who pays for that? That's an awful lot of resources to dedicate to two people who volunteered to go to Africa in the first place (not to mention, the risk to the general public associated with allowing them back in the US). I guess that I would hope that by having them here, we can learn more about the disease in terms of research.

 

[Kaleigh]

I too am conflicted about the cost. Wouldn't it be great to think we could get ahead of this... Sounds good in writing but history has been we fail. But can't stop trying. But one has to ask at what cost. And what risk??

Really trying to figure this one out. I am stumped..

 

[momhappy]

The quote "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." seems fitting.