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During this pandemic what's more important, shareholder profits or human lives around the world?

During this pandemic, what's more important, shareholder profits or human lives around the world?

  • Shareholder profits

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • Human lives around the world

    Votes: 20 83.3%
  • Other, please explain

    Votes: 3 12.5%

  • Total voters
    24

kenny

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Moderna, Pfizer, and JJ have patents on the best-preforming vaccines.
How nice for America.
But what about non-Americans?
Some non-American vaccines being administered are reported to have a 50% success rate, not 90%.

What say you? ... America and my stock portfolio first, or earthlings first?
In this case even if America reaches herd immunity (doubtful thanks to you know who) what good is it if zillions of non-Americans become C-19 factories, and virus variant factories, and die en masse, while keeping this nightmare never ending?

 
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GliderPoss

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Can you be specific as to which vaccines have less successful rate? I've only heard of all current available vaccines have at least an 80% rate... :confused:

I think if you are saying which is more important - a balance between commercial profitability and the welfare for the common good can probably be found. Of course companies (usually) need to make a profit, even if just to reinvest in growth so they can expand and provide more supplies. It would be difficult to expect any company to do otherwise.
 

kenny

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Can you be specific as to which vaccines have less successful rate?

I don't recall where I read it, but Google is your friend.
Look up Sinovac and Sinopharm C19 vaccine.

Note, early reports say China initially claimed efficacy rates of about 79%, but later studies conducted in other countries slashed that to around 50%.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ated-nation-reintroduces-curbs-as-cases-surge

It is clear though that Moderna Pfizer have the best results, but want to protect their patents for profits. THAT is the point here.
 

ForteKitty

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Oct 7, 2004
Messages
5,174
Can you be specific as to which vaccines have less successful rate? I've only heard of all current available vaccines have at least an 80% rate... :confused:

I think if you are saying which is more important - a balance between commercial profitability and the welfare for the common good can probably be found. Of course companies (usually) need to make a profit, even if just to reinvest in growth so they can expand and provide more supplies. It would be difficult to expect any company to do otherwise.

Trials in Brazil shows Coronavac only has about 50.4% efficacy. Same vaaccine in Chile shows about 3% efficacy after shot#1, and 56% after shot #2. Chile cases are surging despite high vaccination rates.
 

Gussie

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Companies have to make a profit. It's how and why they exist. There wouldn't be a vaccine if this incentive wasn't there.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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46,416
Human lives are more important than profit.
It should always be that way.

Health insurance should be a right not a privilege.
Health is most important above all else.

There is time for profit after we have reached safety for all.
The successful vaccines need to be made available to everyone.

We are in this together.
If everyone who can be safely and successfully vaccinated isn't we all remain vulnerable.

We are in this together.
 

kipari

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Jan 9, 2015
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3,003
Moderna, Pfizer, and JJ have patents on the best-preforming vaccines.
How nice for America.
But what about non-Americans?
Some non-American vaccines being administered are reported to have a 50% success rate, not 90%.

What say you? ... America and my stock portfolio first, or earthlings first?
In this case even if America reaches herd immunity (doubtful thanks to you know who) what good is it if zillions of non-Americans become C-19 factories, and virus variant factories, and die en masse, while keeping this nightmare never ending?


Therw are a few inaccuracies in your presumption:

Pfizer doesn't hold the patent on the Comirnaty vaccine. The vaccine was developed by German company BioNtec (founded and owned by Turkish immigrants). They teamed up with Pfizer for the clinical trials and distribution.
They have chosen to collaborate with a Chinese company for distribution in China (Fosun).









The Pfizer–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (INN: tozinameran), sold under the brand name Comirnaty,[3] is an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine. The German company BioNTech, the developer of the vaccine, collaborated with the American company Pfizer for support with clinical trials, logistics, and manufacturing.[19][20] In China, where the vaccine is marketed as Comirnaty and colloquially described as the Fosun–BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, BioNTech is partnered with China-based Fosun Pharma[21][22] instead of Pfizer for development, marketing, and distribution rights.[23][24][25][26]


I agree with @Daisys and Diamonds and @missy that a global solution need to be found. I could completely support thus decision, even if I'll have to wait until June to be able to get vaccinated personally.

On the other hand it's clear that it's a slippery slope. The EU for instance chose to let doses go to developing countries, chose to allow vaccine to be exported. This was at the cost of falling behind in the beginning. They were and are quite harshly judged by the international press (basically as idiots).



The anti- democratic fringe opposition (extreme left AND right) are giving many democratic EU governments a hard time about it.

But yeah, no use for rich countries to go for a " me me me" approach. Mutations are the next big challenge.
 
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MRBXXXFVVS1

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We need to save lives globally before all else because it's the right thing to do, life and health are all we have. Secondarily, it will benefit us economically and health wise. We are highly dependent in global trade and manufacturing. It will also help stop mutations and continued spread through travel.

Solve for the virus first, profit later. Profits are important to drive continued operations and innovation. Just because they remove the patents doesn't mean the government and others aren't making money selling the vaccine.

I've realized we live in countries with so much priviledge that vaccination is widely available, yet so many other parts of the world haven't had the same opportunity. Should we even be able to have this privilege (selfishly yes and from a global economy standpoint), but should we have prioritized countries with dense populations and fewer medical resources? All human lives are worthy.
 

chrono

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I am all for shipping and subsidizing vaccines for third world countries but goodness, at least vaccinate your own people first! How can you help others if you do not take care of yourself?
 

missy

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I am all for shipping and subsidizing vaccines for third world countries but goodness, at least vaccinate your own people first! How can you help others if you do not take care of yourself?

From what I can see we (USA can’t speak for other countries) now have excess supply of vaccines for the demand.

We should prioritize vaccines for those who want and need it and since (at least in the USA) we are seeing an incredible slow down in those who want to get vaccinated we need to get them to the people (all over the world) who are literally dying for one.

It upsets me to see those who are most privileged turning down the vaccine ( those who health wise can get it that is) and therefore prolonging the pandemic and affecting life and death.

We need to get it into the arms of those who want it.
 

kenny

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I am all for shipping and subsidizing vaccines for third world countries but goodness, at least vaccinate your own people first! How can you help others if you do not take care of yourself?

I certainly agree.

When flying commercially the preflight instructions are to put the oxygen mask on yourself first, then assist kidos and others.
 

dk168

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8,769
Personally, I believe everyone on this planet is in this together, and would like everyone to be vaccinated against C-19 as soon as possible.

If this means for the poorer countries to be subsidised by the wealthier ones, then so be it.

I am not in the position to be able to comment on health economics as I am a healthcare professional working in the pharma industry, and my own views and opinions may not gel well with my profession and/or the industry.

DK :))
 

Karl_K

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I am all for shipping and subsidizing vaccines for third world countries but goodness, at least vaccinate your own people first! How can you help others if you do not take care of yourself?
What ticks me off is that they are sticking the American people with j&j while shipping the more effective vaccines out of the country.
 

smitcompton

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Hi,

The prominent vaccine companies have been donating to less developed countries. Pfizer offered to send India the vaccine, which India refused on the ground that it didn't believe it was safe enough.

My understanding of the question is about the intellectual property rights which will enable countries to make a vaccine themselves. Angela Merkel is opposed to this. From the brilliant research work that has been done to develop these vaccines, other vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs will come forth. Why would you want to give this knowledge to others. Pres.Biden has already sent vaccine to India.

There should be a partnership with the Govs.in developed countries to address the needs for the vaccine in poorer countries. I do not think the Intellectual Property rights should be given away. It should be made available at cost, if possible, or free is necessary. These companies have been doing great work and great charity.

. I do own Pfizer, have for a long time.(in the interest of disclosure).

Annette
 

smitcompton

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Hi Again,

There has been very little money made in Pfizer. Pfizer has always said it would sell at or near cost. The last PE report did show nice profit results. Moderna has reaped more stock price increases and has a bright outlook. But, part of that outlook has to do with future innovations.

Annette
 

GliderPoss

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Hi,

The prominent vaccine companies have been donating to less developed countries. Pfizer offered to send India the vaccine, which India refused on the ground that it didn't believe it was safe enough.

My understanding of the question is about the intellectual property rights which will enable countries to make a vaccine themselves. Angela Merkel is opposed to this. From the brilliant research work that has been done to develop these vaccines, other vaccines and pharmaceutical drugs will come forth. Why would you want to give this knowledge to others. Pres.Biden has already sent vaccine to India.

There should be a partnership with the Govs.in developed countries to address the needs for the vaccine in poorer countries. I do not think the Intellectual Property rights should be given away. It should be made available at cost, if possible, or free is necessary. These companies have been doing great work and great charity.

. I do own Pfizer, have for a long time.(in the interest of disclosure).

Annette

I agree with this - asking companies to share/disclose valuable IP would be difficult to justify. If developed countries need to share actual stock of doses or financially subsidise struggling developing countries to buy more then that is a viable alternative to assist.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Hi,

After I posted here I went to look at my regular programming on TV. Apparently Moderna reported earnings yesterday. The Pres. was asked how concerned he was about giving I.Prop rights away. He said he didn't lose any sleep over it. An analyst explained why. Even if they had to give their I.P R away, it would take years for countries to develop their own vaccines if at all. So, for our pandemic, it doesn't seem very helpful.

It was also stated that this new science was the cutting edge science of todays times. This was a completely new way of handling the problem and bodes very well for the future developments of new medicines. I do not see any reason to give up the IP.

Corporations make the innovations for changes in the society. Yes, some just look for profit, but some make a world of difference in our lives for good. Lets not forget that.

Annette
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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It takes tons of money to develop drugs and vaccines. If the company doesn't get that money back, there is no incentive to produce. They are in it to help people but cannot do that without financial reward. IP is imperative for advances. It hardly seems fair that Moderna and Pfizer stock is down after developing a vaccine in record time. The next time (and there will be a next time) a vaccine is needed, who will jump to the plate, knowing it is bad for the company? This sounds harsh, but this is capitalism. This is the reason we have such advances in medicine.
 
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Karl_K

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It is clear though that Moderna Pfizer have the best results, but want to protect their patents for profits. THAT is the point here.
They also have an extremely high level process and equipment to make them compared to say j&j and AstraZeneca.
Worldwide anyone who can vaccines in a reasonable time frame is already making them and gearing more plants up in a reasonable time frame is probably not practical.
Keeping the plants running to supply the raw materials is a huge issue right now as many of them are in India.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Hi.

It was announced today that Pfizer and Bio-tech have donated 2 BILLION vaccine doses to poorer countries.. They will be delivered within 18 months.

I wanted to point out many corporations are not only innovative enough to save us, but generous with their bounty. Yea, Pfizer.

Annette
 
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