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Drilled diamond

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by frackas, Aug 25, 2019.

  1. frackas
    Rough_Rock

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    by frackas » Aug 25, 2019
    Hi everyone.

    I'm new to the forum and just getting into diamonds - a total beginner :) !

    I'm trying to find a nice diamond pendant for my girlfriend, and found this one, which I liked a lot:
    https://www.kataoka-jewelry.com/en/categories/en-necklaces/diamond-solitaire-necklace-en/

    Screenshot 2019-08-25 at 09.38.07.png

    I've never seen anything quite like it, there is a hole drilled through diamond, which is a 0.3 carat Sl1, F, very good cut.

    My question to you is wether a hole through the diamond like this affects the clarity and the brilliance in any way? And is the given diamond rating reflective of the drilled hole or not?

    I thought the pendant looked really nice and elegant, but I'm very happy to hear any concerns regarding buying a stone which has undergone this treatment.

    Thanks for a great forum!
     
    


    


  2. whitewave
    Ideal_Rock

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    by whitewave » Aug 25, 2019
    I personally would never buy one. You can’t undrill a hole!
     
  3. Lykame
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    by Lykame » Aug 25, 2019
    Welcome!

    Whilst I can see what drew your eye, this just seems like such a terrible idea on so many levels. I'm not even sure I can verbalise them well enough.

    Firstly, as @whitewave said, you can't undrill that hole. What if you wanted it reset as something else? What are they drilling through to make that hole? A feather? An inclusion? Secondly, if you ever wanted to sell it (didn't look at whether there was any policy with that website, but I suspect there isn't) I suspect very few people - if any - would bite. I wouldn't. Thirdly, it would be dirty literally the second it was put on and no matter how beautiful a diamond you manage to get, it will be completely ruined by the dirt/grease etc. Finally, and to say it again because I can't quite get over it... A hole. Drilled. Through the diamond. I mean...what the heck??? :doh:

    Best of luck with your search for a beautiful necklace... elsewhere! Where are you based and what is your budget? I recommend various places including Whiteflash, High Performance Diamonds etc. You could get a super ideal diamond or an expert selection and really have lots of flexibility over the setting.

    =)2
     
  4. foxinsox
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    by foxinsox » Aug 25, 2019
    :naughty:I love Kataoka so I think it’s lovely. Is it the sort of style she wears?
     
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  5. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 25, 2019
    Why would it be dirty more than a diamond that doesn’t have a drill hole? Would briolette diamond have the same issue?
     
  6. Sunstorm
    Brilliant_Rock
    Trade

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    by Sunstorm » Aug 25, 2019
    OH MY .... yikes!!! I thought I have seen it all!
     
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  7. yssie
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    by yssie » Aug 25, 2019
    Briolettes get filthy the moment you breathe on them :mrgreen2: the faceting hides nothing!
     
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  8. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Aug 25, 2019
    I think bigger issue with this is that diamonds are fundamentally very brittle. The site of the drill hole through the stone is a gaping wound waiting to get snapped off - it just takes one bad tug or one bad twist. It looks like they drill quite deeply (toward the center of the table, vs. right at the edge of the girdle), which helps.

    Briolettes suffer the same weakness. I love them anyway. If this speaks to you... a 0.3ct stone isn’t particularly valuable - what you’re paying for is drilling, branding, and novelty, and it certainly is novel! Just understand that it should not be an everyday piece: it will need babying.

    Regarding grading - the description doesn’t specify a lab, which indicates grading is done in-house. This is exactly what I’d expect: no one would bother sending a drilled stone this small to a lab, and no one would pay for a lab report on a stone this small then void it by drilling a hole through it. My guess is that the clarity grade stated is presumed not to include the drill hole.

    Regarding effects on performance - let’s just say that if performance is your priority drilling a hole through the stone wouldn’t be something anyone anywhere would advise ::) there’s really no point to nitpicking nuance of light return given the type of piece we’re discussing! This pendant is to be enjoyed for what it is, nothing more and nothing less.

    I personally rather like it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
  9. headlight
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by headlight » Aug 25, 2019
    I’ve always loved briolettes... good to know this info (bummer!). This type of drilling for design purposes is legit and I was trying to find something about other styles that use it that I read from GIA but I cannot locate it. Yes, definitely “single-use” stone, no repurposing here!
     
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  10. srke
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  11. monipod
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    by monipod » Aug 25, 2019
    Kataoka make some amazing jewellery As @yssie said, it's not like a 1+ct stone here and if we worry too much about resell value, we'd never end up buying anything lol
    A periodic clean should be enough to maintain the sparkle no? I'm sure your GF will love it :)
     
  12. moneymeister
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  13. mrs-b
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    by mrs-b » Aug 25, 2019
    I like the design, and Kataoka means you're starting with something about as far up the food chain as possible for such a petite necklace. This may be a good or a bad thing, depending on what message you'd like to send.

    The stone, given it has no framework in which to sit, will touch her skin right from the get go. It will have oil from her skin on it in about 3 nano-seconds. It will look duller than it needs to about a new York minute after that. So all that to say - great design, exclusive brand, will wear terribly.

    Any diamond with a hole in it takes a plummet in value. I'm assuming the diamond was graded before it was drilled, as diamonds-with-holes-in-them are un-resellable. What you're paying for here is the design and the craftsmanship, not the diamond. An open hole passing all the way through a diamond does NOT allow for a grading of SI1. Most SI1 stones are classified as 'eye clean'; it's impossible not to see a gaping hole in a diamond. So no, your SI1 grading would be before the stone was drilled.

    Also - 'beige gold'? Unplated white perhaps? A mix of white and yellow? Yellow with extra nickel? Either way, I can think of few things less attractive on skin than beige.

    So here's the thing....

    Has she specifically asked for a Kataoka? Because a general rule of thumb is that girls like substantial diamonds - we're mesmerized by that twinkle. This is not true for everyone, granted, but I'd say that for 99% of women, their preference is larger than their partners realize. If you're even considering a Kataoka pendant, then you have the sort of budget that could get you something of a more substantial style.

    If you like that sort of 'drippy diamond' effect (which I, personally, love!) would you consider a bezel set pear shaped diamond? Diamond pendants need at least a little weight to hang. Otherwise, they stick to your skin, flip around the back of your neck, go through life caught in your hair - and so on. A bezel setting would give a tad more weight, and a pear shape is reminiscent of rain drops - which is a lovely effect in jewelry - especially on a woman's decolletage. For the budget you're considering, I'd love something like *this*:

    https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/pear-shaped/0.50-carat-d-color-if-clarity-sku-7390334

    I normally NEVER recommend D colored diamonds, but since pear-shaped diamonds concentrate any color in the tip, D color is your safest bet. And since you're considering an upmarket designer, something luxurious and rare like a flawless diamond might hit the spot. I'd then send it off to David Klass Jewelry (well known and very popular on these boards) in LA, who will set it beautifully for you, stick it on a chain, and ship it back to you. It would be a delicate, elegant necklace, but more substantial and of far higher quality than you're currently considering, while maintaining that organic style.

    By the way, the marketing for this necklace really turns me off. "For the woman who dances through her day..." - seriously? I know media likes to portray women as naive and innocent little girls - but - dancing through my day? Oh pah-lease. And their suggestion that a woman might like to wear this piece "to the beach" is absurd.

    I STILL like the design - as a design, but it's a hard no from me.
     
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  14. yssie
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    by yssie » Aug 25, 2019
    I :kiss2: you @mrs-b ::)
     
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  15. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Aug 25, 2019
    :kiss2: you straight back, sweet and wise PS'er!
     
    


    


  16. yssie
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  17. distracts
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    by distracts » Aug 25, 2019
    My choice for a drilled diamond would also be one of the MMD by Lightbox ones... if you’re gonna put a hole right through it, it might as well be cheaper to start with.
     
  18. elizat
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by elizat » Aug 25, 2019
    I think the same. That doesn't scream Katoka either. If you are paying for the premium, it should show.
     
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  19. anon34985
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    by anon34985 » Aug 25, 2019
    I have nothing against the hole in the diamond, because my friend has a stunning floating diamond necklace and it is absolutely to die for. It is two chains with about 14 diamonds in total. What I have against this necklace is that it is $3,000, I honestly think that seems obscene.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  20. JPie
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JPie » Aug 25, 2019
    I’ve always liked Kataoka’s diamond necklaces. I wanted to layer the five drilled-diamond necklace with the snowflake pendant but haven’t gotten around to it. Kataoka is the first designer I’ve seen with this design; they had it a few years ago and most recently other jewelry companies have followed suit. I think this necklace is really something you purchase because you love the aesthetic and the brand.

    @mrs-b their beige gold is what everyone else calls yellow gold. They also call rose gold pink gold. I always assumed they translated it from Japanese literally.
     
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  21. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Aug 25, 2019
    Hi @JPie :wavey:

    Interesting. To be honest, it actually looked beige on their web site, rather than the rich yellow I'm used to. I wonder what alloy they use? I can imagine a more muted yellow being a specifically chosen aesthetic. Pink gold is a common term where I come from, so that was no surprise. But beige? That's a new one on me.

    You know I love their rings. I can't imagine anyone not loving their rings. But this style of pendant setting has a bunch of issues.
     
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  22. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Aug 25, 2019
    Diamond harmed & hung ,(
     
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  23. JPie
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JPie » Aug 25, 2019
    I’ll have to ask about the alloys the next time I chat with someone at Kataoka. =)2
     
  24. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Aug 25, 2019
    Would be really interesting to hear. Can you pls post about it if you get a chance to find out? I find that kind of thing fascinating!
     
  25. motownmama
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    by motownmama » Aug 25, 2019
    You can get a .40 pendant at Tiffany for about same price. I guess not as unique, but no drill hole. I bought one for my daughter and she wears it constantly.
     
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  26. JPie
    Ideal_Rock

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    by JPie » Aug 25, 2019
    Can do!
     
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  27. prs
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    by prs » Aug 26, 2019
    @frackas There is no way that diamond will stay balanced on its point. It will sit on its side and bounce around on your girlfriend's neck!!!

    She will not be pleased!!! :eek2::eek2::eek2:
     
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  28. frackas
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    by frackas » Aug 26, 2019
    Hi everyone! First of all sorry for my somewhat late reply! Timezones and all that, I'm in Norway and I guess you're mostly in the states. Secondly, thank you all for some amazing feedback! This is truly a great forum!!

    To cut to the chase; I have to say you’ve talked me out of this necklace :D I still really, really like the design of it, and I guess I'm not too worried about it “bouncing around” a bit, as long as it's heavy enough to not go around the other side of the neck. The bezel less design sort of reminds me of how I pictured a diamond when I was a kid, I guess because its the first necklace I’ve seen where you can actually see the shape of the diamond, which instantly speaks to me.

    However, You've made me realise it’s quite overpriced. And I guess shelling out that kind of money for something which isn’t reusable or resealable isn’t the best way of spending that budget.

    I’m looking to spend around $2000, so the Kataoka necklace was way off budget to begin with anyway..

    Over to some individual answers:

    @Lykame Thanks for your advice! This is exactly what I was hoping to get some feedback on. I wasn’t aware that drilling holes in diamonds like this is not the standard practice. Well.. I guess I had a suspicion..

    @foxinsox She hasn’t got any diamonds at this point, so she’s also new to all of this. Her friend just got a Diamonds by the yard pendant from Tiffanys from her boyfriend, and I guess that’s what planted the seed in her head (Yes she has hinted that she’d love a diamond necklace when the occasion rises. So here I am)

    @yssie - thank you for all that insight! Very helpful! It seems like we’re on the same page - because at the end of the day I still rather like it too :D

    @srke - thanks!! Yes rather similar! Although I think I’m looking for a natural stone for now :)

    @mrs-b Thank you so much for your thorough response!!! I had no idea about skin oil sticking to the stone like that. That is definitely another nail in the coffin for that design. And no; she has definitely not asked specifically for Kataoka. She has no idea who they are I’d imagine, she’s not at all well travelled in the world of diamonds. So in that respect I’m setting the standard with this gift :) I’m probably not gonna go for pear shaped as I really like the classic cut.. However, I will definitely take you up on your tip on instead investing in a bigger stone. What size would be the "smallest big one" so to speak? And I’ll check out that jeweller. Might wait until I’m back in LA in October and have a look myself. The website you’re referring to, are they the “gold standard” (pun intended) of buying diamonds online? I guess they are to be trusted? seeing how new I am to all this, I didn’t realise you could just by the stones online like that :D

    @anon34985 Point taken :D :D

    @motownmama Thanks for the tip. Like I mentioned above I’ve been considering Tiffanys, but I think the way I’ll go forward from here is getting a stone and taking it to a jeweller :) A bigger stone :)

    @prs Point taken.. Thanks :D

    And lastly to all of you, or anyone else who’d care to comment; What carat should I be looking at to avoid it sort of “bouncing around” on the neck? I definitely want it to be elegant, petite, not over the top at all, BUT still stay firmly in place.

    And as you probably have gathered this far, If I’m getting a bezel, I want it to be as minor as possible. That’s my only reservation agains the Diamonds By The Yards pendants at Tiffanys. I find the bezel there to be a bit too intruding for my taste.

    Again THANK YOU SO MUCH, this is very helpful indeed :D :D
    Best regards from Norway
     
  29. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Aug 26, 2019
    @frackas -

    About to go make dinner, so this is just a quick note. Please keep in mind - this is my opinion, based on my experience.

    If you want a round, the gold standard online is:

    1) WhiteFlash
    2) High Performance Diamonds : Crafted by Infinity
    3) Victor Canera - Canera Ideal Hearts
    or - for antique style cuts that have ideal light performance -
    4)August Vintage.

    I am unfamiliar with HPD diamonds, tho they are ADORED here and seem very, very good. I have worked with WhiteFlash many times and their diamonds are out of this world. Their service is also dead-on reliable and their upgrade policy is fabulous. My understanding is that this is also true for HPD. For old cuts (these are new stones, but cut in the style of Old European Cuts (oecs) ), you can't go past August Vintage. These stones are truly romantic, and a LOT of women here (myself included) adore this style. Jonathan Weingarten, the owner, is fabulous to work with. And lastly Victor Canera. His signature brand seems to produce diamonds I find super visually pretty. They're different to WF or HPD, and in many ways I prefer them; probably the prettiest round brilliants I've seen were his.

    I go with WF because their diamonds are on a par with the very best, and because I know them and find them to be ethical and kind. They never forget their customers, which I love, and their prices are very competitive for diamonds of this calibre. If you give your girl one of these, you'll see right away - the brilliance and fire are impossible to miss!
     
  30. yssie
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    by yssie » Aug 26, 2019
    I've always wanted to go to Norway. One of these days, I hope!

    With bezels, because there's metal surrounding the stone, the "look" varies greatly depending on diamond size. A bezel around a 0.1ct stone will look much more invasive than a bezel around a 0.5ct stone - because the stone is so much larger the proportion of (bezel of the same thickness) to (stone diameter) will be that much less.

    In practice you aren't going to get a thinner, more delicate, more precisely-crafted bezel than what Tiffany produces from anyone, anywhere. So if you don't care for the look then a bezel is probably just not the right direction for your project!

    Before you decide... Do you have a local Tiffany? If so, make an appointment and take a look at a necklace or two in-person. Try them on your own neck - see how they look. I really think you'll find the metal much less overwhelming and obtrusive in-person.


    Another thing to consider - this is how round brilliant diamonds look from the side:
    upload_2019-8-26_18-51-21.png

    A 0.3ct stone is about 2.6mm deep (that's total depth, from the flat part at the top to the pointy bit at the bottom). A bezel (the metal around the girdle) is around 1mm deep. That pointy bit at the bottom of the stone - that is sharp. Some people are more sensitive to it poking than others. In the Kataoka design that point (called the "culet") is completely exposed - it's going to be poking skin. It would drive me bonkers. It wouldn't bother some other PriceScopers at all!

    This is the Tiffany bezel style. This isn't a Tiffany bezel, but Tiffany's are the same style (I'm having trouble finding a side view pic of a Tiffany pendant on my phone).
    upload_2019-8-26_19-18-45.png
    Minimizing the poke is precisely why Tiffany's website choices max out under 0.2ct for this style.

    To avoid poking you'd need a setting style that puts metal either under, or on plane with, the culet. One member on another forum had her Tiffany pendant modified:
    upload_2019-8-26_18-57-58.png
    upload_2019-8-26_18-58-26.png

    There are bezel settings that achieve this out-of-box. Here are a couple - there are many more!
    upload_2019-8-26_19-9-5.png
    upload_2019-8-26_19-9-54.png
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2019
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