Dresden theft of 41 pieces in 2019

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

This may be of interest in light of the Louvre Apollo theft?
Chat GPT: • On 25 November 2019, thieves broke into the Green Vault at Dresden Castle and stole 21 pieces of jewellery (over 4,300 diamonds) from the 18th-century royal treasury. Artnet News+4Wikipedia+4Wikipedia+4
• The estimated value of the stolen items: around €113 million (though earlier reports inflated it as high as €1 billion due to historical/cultural value). Wikipedia+2Head Topics+2
• In December 2022, German authorities recovered 31 of the stolen items in Berlin after talks with the lawyers of the suspects. 9News+2diesachsen.de+2
• The museum reopened the display of the recovered items in August 2024. Artnet News+1
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Was there a buy-back by the government or museum?
No — based on available information, there is no indication that the museum or the German state paid the thieves to buy back the stolen jewels.
Here’s what we do know:
• The recovery of the items seems to have been achieved through law-enforcement action and negotiations/plans with the suspects, rather than a purchase. For example, authorities mention “talks … that included return of stolen items” as part of prosecutorial negotiations. 9News+2smithsonianmag.com+2
• The items remain subject to judicial proceedings and are treated as property in legal process. kawc.org+1
• There is no publicly disclosed agreement of the state paying a sum to the thieves to get the jewels back.
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Key implication
This Dresden case is not an example of a museum/government buying back stolen art or jewels from thieves. It’s rather a case of theft → investigation/arrests → recovery (partial) → restoration/display.
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If you like, I can look up other museum robberies around the world and identify any cases where a government or museum did buy back stolen items, with full documentation. Would you like me to do that?
Recent major Dresden Green Vault news

You said:
were any of the dresden thieves convicted?
ChatGPT said:
Yes — several of the Dresden Green Vault thieves were convicted.
Here’s a concise summary of the outcome:
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Verdict & Sentencing
• Date of verdict: May 16, 2023 (Regional Court of Dresden)
• Defendants: Six members of the Remmo clan, a well-known Berlin crime family with prior high-profile heists (including the 2017 Berlin Bode Museum “Big Maple Leaf” gold coin theft).
• Convictions:
o Five men were found guilty of aggravated gang theft and arson.
o One defendant was acquitted.
• Sentences:
o Prison terms ranged from four years and four months to six years and three months.
o Lighter sentences were imposed on those who cooperated and helped recover the jewels.
o The recovery of 31 of the 41 stolen items in late 2022 came as part of a plea deal between the defendants and prosecutors.
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Key Legal Notes
• The plea deal did not involve any payments by the government; it was a negotiated return of the jewels in exchange for reduced sentences.
• The suspects admitted their role in the 2019 burglary and the arson used to disable security systems.
• They used axes and crowbars to smash display cases and stole 21 jewelry sets containing more than 4,300 diamonds and brilliants (valued around €113 million).
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️ Aftermath
• The recovered jewels were carefully restored and returned to public display in August 2024 at the Grünes Gewölbe (Green Vault).
• Several pieces remain missing — including one large diamond brooch and a few small elements thought to have been broken apart.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I would not blame governments or individuals who are victims of theft if they buy the items them back from the criminals. I was the victim of a major (for me) theft in the early 1980s. Several years later a couple of the larger more readily identifiable items (a very large cushion cut gem quality Morganite among them) resurfaced. Thinking I was doint the right thing I immediately contacted the authorities, rather than try to buy the goods for pennies on the dollar. It's a long and painful story, but bottom line, if I could do it over I would have kept the police out of it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I would not blame governments or individuals who are victims of theft if they buy the items them back from the criminals. I was the victim of a major (for me) theft in the early 1980s. Several years later a couple of the larger more readily identifiable items (a very large cushion cut gem quality Morganite among them) resurfaced. Thinking I was doint the right thing I immediately contacted the authorities, rather than try to buy the goods for pennies on the dollar. It's a long and painful story, but bottom line, if I could do it over I would have kept the police out of it.

Sad story Bryan, the entire ransom issue is a tough one to solve. And I doubt there has ever been as much opportunity for ransom in human history.
Houthi rebels, Internet ransom attacks, south American, African and many nations..............

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Undoubtedly true Garry. Forensics and strong international cooperation in law enforcement are important. But investments in prevention, at all levels, is more important than ever.

 

[Rockdiamond]

So sorry that happened to you Bryan.
I was once the victim of a robbery myself.
Cost me a job and lots of "tsuris".
Glad we both came out of it ok

Aftermath
• The recovered jewels were carefully restored and returned to public display in August 2024 at the Grünes Gewölbe (Green Vault).

Wow.
What a story.
Sounds like excellent police work, that's for sure.
A great story in that regard

 

[Muscosa3]

Undoubtedly true Garry. Forensics and strong international cooperation in law enforcement are important. But investments in prevention, at all levels, is more important than ever.

I would not blame governments or individuals who are victims of theft if they buy the items them back from the criminals. I was the victim of a major (for me) theft in the early 1980s. Several years later a couple of the larger more readily identifiable items (a very large cushion cut gem quality Morganite among them) resurfaced. Thinking I was doint the right thing I immediately contacted the authorities, rather than try to buy the goods for pennies on the dollar. It's a long and painful story, but bottom line, if I could do it over I would have kept the police out of it.

Indeed, this would have been the right thing to do for the german government concerning the Dresden robbery. In case you are so stupid to invite these people to steal your historic heritage you at least should act smart after the disaster. But as this was not done, these people had time to break apart and demolish the jewellery and sell important stones. Jewellery like this is almost always stolen to be sold on the black market (darknet today). These criminals have no clue about jewellery, how to handle it, transport it, store it or sell it. The only thing they do successfully is to damage the pieces.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

I'm not an expert in the jewelry world by any stretch of the imagination. However, I do know a thing or two about the art (painting) world. Often, when major historical paintings are stolen, the thefts are commissioned by a collector. I wonder if this happens in the jewelry world too, where a wealthy individual wants a certain piece of historical bling for their private collection? I realize that jewelry can be broken down into parts to be sold, whereas paintings cannot. So perhaps this scenario happens less often in the jewelry world. But I wonder if it still occasionally happens.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I'm not an expert in the jewelry world by any stretch of the imagination. However, I do know a thing or two about the art (painting) world. Often, when major historical paintings are stolen, the thefts are commissioned by a collector. I wonder if this happens in the jewelry world too, where a wealthy individual wants a certain piece of historical bling for their private collection? I realize that jewelry can be broken down into parts to be sold, whereas paintings cannot. So perhaps this scenario happens less often in the jewelry world. But I wonder if it still occasionally happens.

Who was it that liked and used the quote from Napoleon B:
"He who saves his Country does not violate any Law"

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Who was it that liked and used the quote from Napoleon B:
"He who saves his Country does not violate any Law"

Cheeky

 

[RunningwithScissors]

Who was it that liked and used the quote from Napoleon B:
"He who saves his Country does not violate any Law"

??? I don't understand how that quote applies to the question I'm asking about the motives of jewelry thieves who steal high-profile/historical jewelry pieces from museums.

I'd love to know if a percentage of the thefts are commissioned by collectors who want the historical piece as a trophy. Or if most of them are stolen for the value of their parts and will be dismantled.

In the art world, a stolen Rembrandt is a targeted hit for a collector.

 

[RunningwithScissors]

...and you all wonder why so many of us have left PriceScope.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

??? I don't understand how that quote applies to the question I'm asking about the motives of jewelry thieves who steal high-profile/historical jewelry pieces from museums.

I'd love to know if a percentage of the thefts are commissioned by collectors who want the historical piece as a trophy. Or if most of them are stolen for the value of their parts and will be dismantled.

In the art world, a stolen Rembrandt is a targeted hit for a collector.

I don't have any data on the question, but my guess would be very few such jewelry crimes are perpetrated on behalf of a particular collector. Usually the jewelry will be dismantled and sold for the value of their parts. Diamonds and gemstones can be recut to largely conceal their origins. Precious metals can be melted. Paintings would have to remain intact to have value.
My guess is most jewelry thefts are crimes of opportunity. That is, the criminals probe security measures of different targets until they find one they think is vulnerable. There is also probably an ego element in play where certain criminals prey on very high profile targets to show how daring they are. Trouble is, they can brag about it to very few people!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Speaking of crimes of opportunity, back in the 1980's and 90's there was a type of crime that regularly befell travelling sales people. Before the internet and the many changes that occurred in the diamond and jewelry business, gem and jewelry dealers used to carry live goods all over the country to call on stores. Criminal organizations (working out of South America primarily) would watch stores and identify dealers walking into them (not that hard to do), then follow them on their routes, waiting for them to let their guard down. Sometimes it was a simple as waiting for them to stop for gas and then doing a distraction while one of the gang popped the trunk and stole the line. (in mere seconds). Sometimes they would cause a fender bender accident and hijack the goods at gunpoint.

Everybody old enough to remember this time in the business knows somebody who was victimized in this way. And many of those folks were small sole proprietors who could not purchase travel insurance, and it was devastating to them.

Paydays for the criminals were such that they could be VERY patient, follow and wait, sometimes for days/weeks.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Speaking of crimes of opportunity, back in the 1980's and 90's there was a type of crime that regularly befell travelling sales people. Before the internet and the many changes that occurred in the diamond and jewelry business, gem and jewelry dealers used to carry live goods all over the country to call on stores. Criminal organizations (working out of South America primarily) would watch stores and identify dealers walking into them (not that hard to do), then follow them on their routes, waiting for them to let their guard down. Sometimes it was a simple as waiting for them to stop for gas and then doing a distraction while one of the gang popped the trunk and stole the line. (in mere seconds). Sometimes they would cause a fender bender accident and hijack the goods at gunpoint.

Everybody old enough to remember this time in the business knows somebody who was victimized in this way. And many of those folks were small sole proprietors who could not purchase travel insurance, and it was devastating to them.

Paydays for the criminals were such that they could be VERY patient, follow and wait, sometimes for days/weeks.

A variation. Pretty girl walks up and asks for directions (pre Google map) holding a map up. Rep steps forward to assist letting go of bag.
Bag gone, girl gone.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Similar story, painful memory. After finishing a gem show in a major hotel in New York City back in the early 80's we were checking out. A briefcase with our goods was strapped to a luggage carrier and my Mother (who got me into the jewelry business) was waiting to check out at the front desk. A man came up exitedly and told her she had chocolate on her coat. There was some brief commotion and she saw the chocolate and proceeded to the desk and checked out, told the clerk what had happened and they graciously told her they would get the coat cleaned for her and ship it back.

I had gone to see a vendor in the city to return some consignment goods we had been displaying for the weekend. When I met up with my Mom she told me about the incident and I did not think too much about it as we were trying to get ready to leave. In addition to the stones I returned to the vendor I had picked up a couple others that I had clients for back home. When I went to open the briefcase with the goods to put the new stones in, the combination would not open. That's when I noticed that it was the same model but not the same briefcase! When the police arrived and we broke open the lock, it was full of newspaper.

In the brief time the man distracted her an accomplice had SWITCHED the briefcase for one just like it, stealing all of our goods. This happened in broad daylight in a busy lobby of a 5 star hotel in Manhattan!