Does signed pieces inflate the retail value of their 2nd hand pieces?

[Ty Cobb]

Was fooling around on signed pieces just checking out what they had in their Tiff and Cartier section, when some of the retail prices they claimed began to bug me.

This one in particular stood out at me:

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=5715


They say it retails for $60,000.00

Well looking at the certificate I will grant you that it was a D IF which would raise the price, however, the GIA report states the value of the ring to be $48,000.00

Now maybe I just got lucky on mine, but the GIA report I got on the ring I bought, valued it almost $3,000.00 higher then what I paid for it, including taxes. So basically the GIA value was 4k more then what I paid for the ring.

Yet signed pieces is claiming the ring retails for $12k more then GIA certified it for? Granted, the value could have gone up that significanly since 2002, I don''t know diamond price trends over that period.

Just for fun I have looked at 1.4''s at Tiffs that were VS1 and F color, and they were both less then $30k, significantly less I might add.

Some of the prices they qoute on there for retail are good, but others in both Tiffs and Cartier don''t seem right:

This one for example:

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=935

The .87 ct channel set VS1 H that I bought in June cost over $1k less then this one. Granted this is a slightly larger stone, however, figuring in the price increase for a channel set band, I find it strange the price difference. I did look at some simple solitares before she dropped the hint that she wanted bling in the ring as well, and while I never saw a .97, the two .95s I looked at were around $8k. I know the GIA certificate appraises it at $9,700.00, but don''t ring generally appraise for more then you pay for them?

I do realize Tiffs has apparently had a price increase over the summer, but still.

Don''t get me wrong, I still believe signed pieces offers a heck of a discount, but it seem like they try to inflate the discount sometimes.

Anyway, just curious if I am totally loony on this or if this makes sense to anyone else?

 

[FireGoddess]

Have you called Tiffany's to see what that ring would cost in their store? That is the relevant retail price, not the GIA value. That doesn't take into account Tiffany's markup, which we all know has to do with their name, not the value of the piece per se.

Call Tiffany's with those specs and ask the price. I'm betting it's about $60K. I was there a few weeks ago and saw a G VS2 3 ct stone for $120,000. In a plain Tiffany setting.

 

[Ty Cobb]

nm

 

[FireGoddess]

I called Tiffany's just now. They have a 1.51 ct D IF in a plain Tiffany setting going for $56,000. So there you go.

 

[angeline]

On the pieces I have been interested in purchasing, and the one Cartier ring I did purchase, the retail prices they quote are exactly what the relevant store quoted me.

 

[neatfreak]

Ty, the price of diamonds HAS inflated a lot in the past number of years.

 

[Shay37]

Date: 9/19/2007 5:10:30 PM
Author:Ty Cobb
Was fooling around on signed pieces just checking out what they had in their Tiff and Cartier section, when some of the retail prices they claimed began to bug me.

This one in particular stood out at me:

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=5715


They say it retails for $60,000.00

Well looking at the certificate I will grant you that it was a D IF which would raise the price, however, the GIA report states the value of the ring to be $48,000.00

Now maybe I just got lucky on mine, but the GIA report I got on the ring I bought, valued it almost $3,000.00 higher then what I paid for it, including taxes. So basically the GIA value was 4k more then what I paid for the ring.

Yet signed pieces is claiming the ring retails for $12k more then GIA certified it for? Granted, the value could have gone up that significanly since 2002, I don''t know diamond price trends over that period.

Just for fun I have looked at 1.4''s at Tiffs that were VS1 and F color, and they were both less then $30k, significantly less I might add.

Some of the prices they qoute on there for retail are good, but others in both Tiffs and Cartier don''t seem right:

This one for example:

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=935

The .87 ct channel set VS1 H that I bought in June cost over $1k less then this one. Granted this is a slightly larger stone, however, figuring in the price increase for a channel set band, I find it strange the price difference. I did look at some simple solitares before she dropped the hint that she wanted bling in the ring as well, and while I never saw a .97, the two .95s I looked at were around $8k. I know the GIA certificate appraises it at $9,700.00, but don''t ring generally appraise for more then you pay for them?

I do realize Tiffs has apparently had a price increase over the summer, but still.

Don''t get me wrong, I still believe signed pieces offers a heck of a discount, but it seem like they try to inflate the discount sometimes.

Anyway, just curious if I am totally loony on this or if this makes sense to anyone else?

Ty when you say "GIA report," are you talking about your appraisal from a GIA GG (graduate gemologist)? I do not believe that the GIA assigns value to their grading reports.

shay

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Glad Shay addressed this! GIA reports do NOT have a value assigned. And appraisal values are one person''s opinion. If you get 5 appraisals, you may get 5 different values.

SP would quote current retail value which is pretty easy to ascertain from Tiffany, I''m sure.

 

[tanuki]

On the two brand name items I have purchased from Signed Pieces that I have been able to research personally because the exact same model was still being sold in shops here in Atlanta the MSRP at S. P. has been very close to what the retail price was at the jewelers. Mine were by Cartier and Chopard. When you are discussing a diamond which isn''t a mass production item like a watch you would have to take into account the substantial markup for the brand name of the jeweler when considering the suggested retail price.

 

[winternight]

My fiance got my Tiffany engagement ring from Signed Pieces. I had it appraised for insurance purposes (and piece of mind) at Tiffany''s and it came up a couple of hundred below the listed Signed Pieces retail price, so that was disappointing. I didn''t make an issue of it b/c I didn''t want to tell my fiance, and we still saved money by going through them.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/20/2007 1:15:47 PM
Author: winternight
My fiance got my Tiffany engagement ring from Signed Pieces. I had it appraised for insurance purposes (and piece of mind) at Tiffany''s and it came up a couple of hundred below the listed Signed Pieces retail price, so that was disappointing. I didn''t make an issue of it b/c I didn''t want to tell my fiance, and we still saved money by going through them.

Why was this disappointing?

SP sold you a ring that you apparently like and for a price that was apparently satisfactory and they made a guess at what Tiffany would charge for a new one like it. Tiffany estimated a little lower price for replacement than the SP’s guys thought they would. I’m not seeing the downside here.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[winternight]

Date: 9/20/2007 2:14:17 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 9/20/2007 1:15:47 PM
Author: winternight
My fiance got my Tiffany engagement ring from Signed Pieces. I had it appraised for insurance purposes (and piece of mind) at Tiffany''s and it came up a couple of hundred below the listed Signed Pieces retail price, so that was disappointing. I didn''t make an issue of it b/c I didn''t want to tell my fiance, and we still saved money by going through them.

Why was this disappointing?

SP sold you a ring that you apparently like and for a price that was apparently satisfactory and they made a guess at what Tiffany would charge for a new one like it. Tiffany estimated a little lower price for replacement than the SP’s guys thought they would. I’m not seeing the downside here.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

Because I trusted Signed pieces to be posting an accurate Tiffany''s price. I should have checked Tiffany''s myself, but given their reputation I thought their prices would be accurate. A couple of hundred makes a difference on what they''re discounting the ring at for being used and they already charge a premium above what other jewelr''s do based, in part, on their reputation. They made a big deal about how they could resize for free since they have someone in house who is Tiffany certified so I expected them to get the pricing closer, and if in doubt maybe underestimate. So know I feel like when I look at their site I have to check retail prices myself - just in case.

 

[winternight]

Oh I think it was at least a $700 different.

 

[denverappraiser]

‘Tiffany certified’ is an interesting claim. Sizing most T&Co. rings isn’t all that difficult and there are certainly plenty of jewelers out there who are well qualified, some of whom have even been contractors or employees of Tiffany but I can’t imagine that Tiffany offers any kind of certification for 3rd party jewelers working for resellers of their 2nd hand merchandise.

Tiffany sets their own prices and anyone else is welcome to try to estimate what they will be but by definition it’s only an estimate. One of the common tasks asked of appraisers it to estimate what a particular jeweler will be expected to charge for a particular item. In most cases the obvious answer is to simply ask them. Tiffany company policy seems to be uncooperative about this because they want you to use their appraisal service and it can be time consuming for them to respond to questions like this. On one hand it seems silly to pay an appraiser to ask the store a question that you already know the answer to but it is necessary if the appraisal is a pre-loss insurance type assignment where that jeweler is being specified as the source for replacement. A lost Tiffany piece is not replaced with ‘like kind and quality’ if it’s replaced with a non-Tiffany substitute and Tiffany is the only legal place to buy NEW Tiffany merchandise.

With most insurance policies the company is agreeing to replace with ‘like kind and quality’, and in the case of jewelry they customarily will provide a NEW item to replace the USED item that you lost although this is generally not spelled out in the contract. This, by the way, is not the way they handle losses to furniture, cars, clothing or most other personal property and it also may not be the way they handle T&Co manufactured merchandise that you purchased used from an independent vendor. Different insurers handle this situation differently.

The Tiffany appraisal report is estimating what Tiffany’s would charge, at retail and in one of their stores, for a similar new item in case replacement becomes necessary. This is a perfectly valid question but it is not a reasonable basis for pricing a used item any more than it would be a reasonable way to price fine art, vintage automobiles or beanie babies. Some things hold their value well and even go up while others have little or no potential in the secondary (ie used) market. It’s simply not the same thing.

I don’t disagree that they’re bringing this criticism upon themselves by advertising someone else’s ‘retail’ prices and then selling at a discount based on them because those prices are entirely out of their control. It seems like it would be more upfront to provide an actual Tiffany opinion of their estimated cost to replace a piece than to try and make their own guesses at this but I’m sure they don’t want to spend the money on it. Tiffany charges quite a bit for this service. Like all dealer costs, this would have ended up in the price you paid for the used item so it’s probably in your best interest as well that they don’t do it. In the end you’re probably right, if you really want to know the prices at a different store, you should probably go check them yourself.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver