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Do you feel this country is crumbling?

Cinders

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2021
Messages
277
It's really easy for everyone to point the finger at 'others' as the source of all the problems in today's society and it feels good to revel in righteous indignation at all the 'idiots' on the other side.

Reality is more complicated.

Anger is not the solution. Things will not improve until we, collectively, all of us, seek common ground & return to the basics of civilization. Civility, kindness, empathy, compassion, tolerance---essentially we need to revisit the lessons learned in kindergarten.
 

ItsMainelyYou

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
2,665
It's especially easy when there are mountains of documentary evidence to back it up, all the way up to harmful public policies reflecting it. Video also helps it's reflection in everyday life. It's an almost impossible task to come together when large percentage of one group thinks that means capitulating to their demand at the expense of the whole because that is how it has always been. Whittled public policy also reflects this. When a large percentage of one group refuses to even contemplate the history or circumstance that brought us to where we are, or protects the very things that undermine compassion and tolerance and civility. You only need to look at our tiered justice system and reticence to adopt and expand social policy that benefits all to see it.
There is no other. There is only us.
Only us.
This is going to be painful for some, and even more so, for others. If we are to survive as a nation we don't have a choice to not accept our share of burden. And honest share of blame.
History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes, as Sam said. We need to acknowledge it. And teach our children well.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,498
Quick reply as I'm at work: The country has become intensely divided not to mention overrun with all kinds of weird and horrible ideas. I think much of it comes down to the internet, which in my opinion is polluting the social sphere with a constant stream of virtual sewage. Thanks to the sheer proliferation of platforms, people with crazy ideas can all get together virtually and encourage/reinforce each other. Mainstream platforms such as Twitter, Snapchat, and Facebook provide ways for people to let their bad sides out for a run, but there are also chatrooms and websites for every conceivable kink and weirdness. I'm taking about horrible stuff, not consenting adults with toy whips. Then there's the Dark Web, and don't get me started on what online pawn has done to men's view of women, especially young ones.

The point is, the internet allows horrendous views and terrible, crazy ideas to spread like wildfire, and I think the effect on society is profound and tragic. Juries are made up of ordinary people who are consuming all this garbage, or if not directly consuming it, may be influenced by it via social osmosis.

The internet is destroying our society, imo.
 

oceanblue

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 14, 2020
Messages
221
All they need to do is stop oppressing....


I like your enthusiasm!

Unfortunately the list of people that feel oppressed never ends, rich/poor, black/white, brown/black, educated/loweducated, religion/religion, ect., etc. And in reality societies that are set up for true equality never seem to work out.
 

erislynn

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
168
One problem this country has is that it’s way too reactionary to problems. Take how we’ve handled covid precautions and not learning from last year’s winter surge and scientific evidence of waning antibodies. Still hemming and hawing on how strict to be.

I like this mock up of our likely game plan to tackle climate change (from the Colbert show). Remember a few years ago when there was the popular doubt that climate change was even real? Now after all the wildfires and extreme temps and it actually affecting people’s daily lives, the consensus from the government is basically only “we’ll try harder.”
“Enhance ambition” from a recent summit of world leaders about climate change.

1637568654308.jpeg
 

autumngems

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
2,201
It is sad what the U.S. has come to now. We sit by and let groups of thugs just come in stores and take whatever they want and nobody stops them as they walk right out (walk, not run). I know people say well stores have insurance for that, so it's ok. NOOO, it's not ok. You have Police and security for a reason, let them do their job. We pay higher prices for letting thieves take what ever they want. All we are doing is sending a STRONG message that you can go in and take anything from from a store with no repercussions. It's stores now, next it will be our homes, cars, etc. because our society is too damn weak. Everyone is afraid they might hurt someone's feelings. Bullsh!! I say you do the crime face the consequences, let security do their job and if you butt gets shot for stealing, that's on you. Be human, not a an animal.

Ok, rant over, it just irks me to no end that we are so worried about hurting someone's feelings or afraid it will become a race issue if we try to enforce the law
 

OreoRosies86

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Messages
3,381
“Thugs and animals looting is the problem!”

gahhhhhh I can’t with people anymore.

I much prefer animals to people.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Oct 2, 2014
Messages
4,498
It's harder to believe in the country when terrible things such as school shootings keep happening. I can't believe what's just happened in Michigan. Millions of people have been bullied at school throughout the ages, but they don't respond like this. I cannot even begin to imagine what goes on in the mind of someone who commits an atrocity like these. I mean, WTF? What a hideously inadequate, vile, loser and monster. At least he's still alive so that he can face justice. I hope the system puts him through the wringer, so he has a long time to stew in jail!

ETA: I wonder if these school shooters have always had something wrong with them, and that if they have easy access to guns, they simply turn to violent crimes earlier than they would have done otherwise, but they would always have been headed that way. In other words, people who would have become murderous and violent anyway, when a young or middle-aged adult, sometimes simply get started earlier under the right circumstances - such as being bullied and having access to firearms. I just do not think that school bullying can cause a normal person to do this. It's a real chicken-and-egg question. My feeling is that the monster within was always lurking, not that bullying creates a monster of these proportions. Otherwise, half the schoolkids in America would be shooting their tormentors! These thoughts are just based on pure instinct, so I might well be wrong. It's also possible that the kid was working himself up into a rage over the latest unfair treatment, and, unfortunately, had access to weapons at that moment. But then why shoot random people instead of the bullies? Nothing about these school shooters makes any sense - except that they're born psychopaths and their parents' weapons are just too hard to resist.

Can you imagine how his parents must feel today? To know your child did that? I'm thinking of the grieving families too, of course, but in a way, at least their situation is more straightforward and easier to grasp. But what must it be like to know that the child who was once your sweet baby grew up and did this? I cannot even begin to imagine.
 
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seaurchin

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
2,642
As far as the insanely high number of US shootings compared to other countries, my feeling is that there are, always have been and always will be a whole lot of people out there who don't have both oars in the water, whether in general or under certain trying circumstances that life might throw their way or when they're under the influence of drugs or alcohol. So what's changed is that guns have become way too cheap and easy to get here and often not even having to be registered. I believe the gun industry is behind the giant push to twist what's stated in the Constitution to make people think this is all some great fundamental "freedom," to increase their profits at the expense of our public safety and wellbeing.

An unhinged person with a gun can kill a lot of people in short order and from a distance. Far more tragic outcomes than if that same unhinged person couldn't so easily get a gun and had to go up close to one person at a time with fists or even a knife to try to act out their rage.

We have common sense laws for driving a car, wearing a seatbelt or motorcycle helmet, drinking alcohol, smoking cigarettes, voting, getting married, borrowing money and just about anything and everything else of any importance that you can think of. There's no reason owning a gun should be somehow magically exempt. What about the rights of people who don't want to get shot? SMH
 
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Calliecake

Ideal_Rock
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Jun 7, 2014
Messages
8,371
IMO The Michigan school shooters parents should also face charges. The father bought the gun used in the shooting a few days prior to the shooting. The parents failed to properly secure the gun and keep it out of their child’s hands. They are also responsible for these deaths. A fourth student died of his injuries today.

The parents were at the school a few hours before the shooting for a meeting about their child. Hopefully the reason for this meeting is made public.
 

autumngems

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jul 24, 2003
Messages
2,201
IMO The Michigan school shooters parents should also face charges. The father bought the gun used in the shooting a few days prior to the shooting. The parents failed to properly secure the gun and keep it out of their child’s hands. They are also responsible for these deaths. A fourth student died of his injuries today.

The parents were at the school a few hours before the shooting for a meeting about their child. Hopefully the reason for this meeting is made public.

I just read that they were there for a meeting because he was showing troubling behavior
 

Lookinagain

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
2,667
But what must it be like to know that the child who was once your sweet baby grew up and did this? I cannot even begin to imagine.

I think many of these parents have seen the signs of instability, or rage, or mental disorder in their child long before something like this happens, but they are in denial about it until something tragic makes them open their eyes.
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
3,494
I think many of these parents have seen the signs of instability, or rage, or mental disorder in their child long before something like this happens, but they are in denial about it until something tragic makes them open their eyes.

Yes, agree. People don't want something to be "wrong" with their child and they hope it just gets better or nothing really bad happens. I think it's very sad with some very bad consequences, but it's hard for many parents to see or admit something is wrong or off with their child.
 

Arcadian

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 17, 2008
Messages
8,527
To avoid bringing anything political into the conversation, I'm going to only say yes and no.
 

doberman

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
2,362
@doberman off topic but I love your new avatar! What a sweetie. :kiss2:


I will add ignorance and lack of education is behind many problems (all over the world).
No question education matters and makes a difference.

That was my late beloved Ninja. He was one cat in a million.
 

doberman

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
2,362
It's harder to believe in the country when terrible things such as school shootings keep happening. I can't believe what's just happened in Michigan. Millions of people have been bullied at school throughout the ages, but they don't respond like this. I cannot even begin to imagine what goes on in the mind of someone who commits an atrocity like these. I mean, WTF? What a hideously inadequate, vile, loser and monster. At least he's still alive so that he can face justice. I hope the system puts him through the wringer, so he has a long time to stew in jail!

ETA: I wonder if these school shooters have always had something wrong with them, and that if they have easy access to guns, they simply turn to violent crimes earlier than they would have done otherwise, but they would always have been headed that way. In other words, people who would have become murderous and violent anyway, when a young or middle-aged adult, sometimes simply get started earlier under the right circumstances - such as being bullied and having access to firearms. I just do not think that school bullying can cause a normal person to do this. It's a real chicken-and-egg question. My feeling is that the monster within was always lurking, not that bullying creates a monster of these proportions. Otherwise, half the schoolkids in America would be shooting their tormentors! These thoughts are just based on pure instinct, so I might well be wrong. It's also possible that the kid was working himself up into a rage over the latest unfair treatment, and, unfortunately, had access to weapons at that moment. But then why shoot random people instead of the bullies? Nothing about these school shooters makes any sense - except that they're born psychopaths and their parents' weapons are just too hard to resist.

Can you imagine how his parents must feel today? To know your child did that? I'm thinking of the grieving families too, of course, but in a way, at least their situation is more straightforward and easier to grasp. But what must it be like to know that the child who was once your sweet baby grew up and did this? I cannot even begin to imagine.

I feel zero pity for the parents of the latest school shooter. They bought him a gun (or gave him access to it) when they had been warned by the school that his behavior was a problem. They are horrible parents and should be made to pay in multiple ways for the tragedy they caused.
 

Lookinagain

Ideal_Rock
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May 15, 2014
Messages
2,667
I feel zero pity for the parents of the latest school shooter. They bought him a gun (or gave him access to it) when they had been warned by the school that his behavior was a problem. They are horrible parents and should be made to pay in multiple ways for the tragedy they caused.
They have now been charged with 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter. If what I'm hearing on the news is correct, the school has culpability too.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
Messages
49,885
That was my late beloved Ninja. He was one cat in a million.

Aww Ninja was beautiful. I had one of those too. Well make it four of them. Really special cats. Since they died no other kitty has come close to being as special as they were. Francesca was the last special kitty we lost. She was one hundred percent my heart kitty. But we have been lucky in that we had some super special cats in the past. Billy, Buster, Butch and Fred. I feel bad saying that because it's not like I dont love our other cats but these 4 were special. And Francesca's death has hit me harder than any other cat's death.

She's the one in my avatar.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
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Messages
49,885
I feel zero pity for the parents of the latest school shooter. They bought him a gun (or gave him access to it) when they had been warned by the school that his behavior was a problem. They are horrible parents and should be made to pay in multiple ways for the tragedy they caused.

Same.

They have now been charged with 4 counts of involuntary manslaughter. If what I'm hearing on the news is correct, the school has culpability too.

Good.
 

doberman

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 2, 2012
Messages
2,362
Aww Ninja was beautiful. I had one of those too. Well make it four of them. Really special cats. Since they died no other kitty has come close to being as special as they were. Francesca was the last special kitty we lost. She was one hundred percent my heart kitty. But we have been lucky in that we had some super special cats in the past. Billy, Buster, Butch and Fred. I feel bad saying that because it's not like I dont love our other cats but these 4 were special. And Francesca's death has hit me harder than any other cat's death.

She's the one in my avatar.

I know just what you mean. I love our other cats. My Snowy is also very special and a true love. But there are some cats that will always leave a hole in your heart.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,959
Hi,

For many years I have thought, and sometimes said that society has perhaps engineered some of what occurs in our present day. Children are taught not to fight. Women, teachers and society as a whole have called this behavior violent, where years ago, you child came home with a bloody nose or looking roughed up, you asked what the fight was about and the children may have stayed mad at each other for a while, but then got over it. I witnessed many school fights amongst the boys, one with girls, and all were over that day. No, they were not violent people who became worse. This was normal behavior. It did not make anyone into a criminal. What does push kids over is you have taken away any expression of frustration, or name calling by declaring that aberrant behavior. So they now turn to guns, which are readily available. Teenagers are still developing, and are emotional. A fistfight is preferable.

Missy posted an article which also stated, that we Americans are a bit too pollyannish about life. which is why reality is sometimes hard to decipher. Europeans acknowledge evil much more than in the US. Each side believes they are right.(except the politicians). I reiterate the demands that people make on the system will defeat it.

Very sad state of affairs.

Annete
 

nala

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 23, 2011
Messages
6,151
Hi,

For many years I have thought, and sometimes said that society has perhaps engineered some of what occurs in our present day. Children are taught not to fight. Women, teachers and society as a whole have called this behavior violent, where years ago, you child came home with a bloody nose or looking roughed up, you asked what the fight was about and the children may have stayed mad at each other for a while, but then got over it. I witnessed many school fights amongst the boys, one with girls, and all were over that day. No, they were not violent people who became worse. This was normal behavior. It did not make anyone into a criminal. What does push kids over is you have taken away any expression of frustration, or name calling by declaring that aberrant behavior. So they now turn to guns, which are readily available. Teenagers are still developing, and are emotional. A fistfight is preferable.

Missy posted an article which also stated, that we Americans are a bit too pollyannish about life. which is why reality is sometimes hard to decipher. Europeans acknowledge evil much more than in the US. Each side believes they are right.(except the politicians). I reiterate the demands that people make on the system will defeat it.

Very sad state of affairs.

Annete

Have you ever taught at a low-income urban school? Fights happen daily. Yup. In my school. 3000 kids. One fight A day. Some end up in the hospital and they are not over it the next day. Some end up being charged with assault. Some end up dead bc the gang decided to retaliate. And the idea that these fights are limited to fist fights is laughable. They don’t all turn to guns. Skateboards, knives, trash cans, heavy Doc Marten’s…
 
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sarahb

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 20, 2012
Messages
1,976
Quick reply as I'm at work: The country has become intensely divided not to mention overrun with all kinds of weird and horrible ideas. I think much of it comes down to the internet, which in my opinion is polluting the social sphere with a constant stream of virtual sewage. Thanks to the sheer proliferation of platforms, people with crazy ideas can all get together virtually and encourage/reinforce each other. Mainstream platforms such as Twitter, Snapchat, and Facebook provide ways for people to let their bad sides out for a run, but there are also chatrooms and websites for every conceivable kink and weirdness. I'm taking about horrible stuff, not consenting adults with toy whips. Then there's the Dark Web, and don't get me started on what online pawn has done to men's view of women, especially young ones.

The point is, the internet allows horrendous views and terrible, crazy ideas to spread like wildfire, and I think the effect on society is profound and tragic. Juries are made up of ordinary people who are consuming all this garbage, or if not directly consuming it, may be influenced by it via social osmosis.

The internet is destroying our society, imo.

Totally agree here, @Jambalaya.

The internet along with the mainstream media, have all contributed mightily to where we find ourselves today. The media--IMHO--is a virus in & of itself & damage they've collectively done to this country is incalculable.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,959
Hi,

Yes Nala, I have taught in a school that was like the ones you are referring to. FOR ONE DAY. You couldn't pay me any amount to go back and I stopped substituting from that day forward. I liken those situations to having teachers become corrections officers. Or guards in a mental hospital for the criminally insane. Teachers should not have to work in such conditions.\
But your point in not well taken by me, because liberals have caused many of society's problems by giving"so called rights" to everybody for everything. Yup, thats whats happened. Are you aware that there are no mental hospitals for long term care.? Most closed due to rights of the mentally ill. Since when are teachers responsible for severely disabled children that cannot even feed themselves. When I taught in that school, I wanted break down hysterically in tears at what I saw. Schools, under normal conditions work, but the tasks that are given to teachers are so great, I cannot see how people choose that profession now.

Police the same. Too much is expected in the routine of their jobs. Of course, they can't shoot people without cause.

Life has become abnormal. No, a small fight among children can be tolerated. I regard it nas in the process of passing thru life. A push, a shove, doesn't bother me.

The left has gone too far. Thats probably why we have this over correction in this country now. I don't think things will get better before they get worse.

Annette
 

ItsMainelyYou

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 27, 2014
Messages
2,665
But your point in not well taken by me, because liberals have caused many of society's problems by giving"so called rights" to everybody for everything. Yup, thats whats happened. Are you aware that there are no mental hospitals for long term care.? Most closed due to rights of the mentally ill.


Reagan repealed Mental Health Systems Act.
The facilities left closed more recently due to not being a covered cost of insurance. 'Liberals' as you say don't support privatized healthcare.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
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Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,959
Hi,

Its mainly you-- I admit I had to go look this up. Of course you are right. Reagen left it to the states, and we see where that went. He cut medicaid and other health services as well.

Gun rights or seriously mentally ill persons with illogical rights are what I repeat over and over and feel that these are what has made our country rather crazy now. I do mean left or right.

Annette
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
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Jan 18, 2010
Messages
1,492
Folks a reminder that we do not allow politics. Keep it to the topic please.
 

Musia

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
1,068
My preparations are finished for moving out of the US. (house sold, legal residency elsewhere, etc.). Now just waiting and hoping things settle down here.

I am very happy for you! Not the easiest thing to do. I left my country (Ukraine) 23.5 years ago and never wanted to go back (visited only once while my mom was still alive). Wishing you good luck! For me it was enough to leave California and move to Utah. People here are very caring, friendly and tolerant. We are in heaven!

I only dislike them being hunters (killing innocent wild animals). As a home cook, I think that farm raised bird or animal tastes better. Maybe hunters feed their dogs and cats which is much better than feeding pets commercial kibbles or cans.
 
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