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Do small diamonds have the same kind of fire as larger ones?

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
I don't know if this is an obvious question but is there a certain size where diamonds don't show as much fire and therefore the main focus should be on brilliance instead? The reason I ask is I have been rethinking my upcoming ACA project ( a Valoria solitaire around the 0.7 - 0.8 mark) and thinking of maybe starting with something around 0.5 - 0.6 carats instead. I've never owned a super ideal diamond and I thought this might be a nice way to dip my toe, and later on, perhaps upgrade or maybe use it as a pendant instead. Anyway, as usual I am driving myself a bit made trying to figure out which angles combinations are best, how to avoid the darkening effect that ideals can have and trying to figure out if I should be aiming for more fire or more brilliance or a balance of both.

Is there much point obsessing about the numbers when dealing with a diamond of this size? Right now I am looking at something with a 34.8/40.8 and a lower girdle of 77. My thinking is that this will offer the most brilliance possible and hopefully help minimize the darkening effect. Am I on the right track or have I lost the plot?
 

MsShnooks

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 11, 2020
Messages
168
I just came across the table in the thread below today and it’s useful.

 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
I think there can be a noticeable difference. I previously had a .53 E CBI which was upgraded to a .70 G CBI this year. The smaller E was without question more lively and firey to my eyes.

Oh wow that's interesting! Do you know if your .53 would have that darkening effect that ideal stones can have in bright lighting? I'm trying to figure out if that is more common in larger stones :)
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
Essentially double the diameter of a diamond doubles the size of the fire flashes for any given cut.
But double the diameter can be 10 times the carat weight

Thanks Garry! Am I right in my thinking that a 34.8/40.8 combo would offer me more brilliance? I am struggleing with the idea that my diamond will look dark under certain lighting and would love to do everything that I can to reduce this effect even though I do realise this is part of owning a super ideal :)
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,669
Thanks Garry! Am I right in my thinking that a 34.8/40.8 combo would offer me more brilliance? I am struggleing with the idea that my diamond will look dark under certain lighting and would love to do everything that I can to reduce this effect even though I do realise this is part of owning a super ideal :)

Just remember that all ACAs will get a score of Excellent for fire on the HCA. You really can't pick a bad one. Go for the largest stone within your budget.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,956
Thanks Garry! Am I right in my thinking that a 34.8/40.8 combo would offer me more brilliance? I am struggleing with the idea that my diamond will look dark under certain lighting and would love to do everything that I can to reduce this effect even though I do realise this is part of owning a super ideal :)

As DS said - no brainer.
And it depends what you like - prominent star? Less dark star, crushed ice? etc
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
As DS said - no brainer.
And it depends what you like - prominent star? Less dark star, crushed ice? etc

Hmm, a less dark star is probably what I would prefer and I'm happy to sacrifice some rainbow flashes if it means more overall brightness. Maybe I'm just over thining this whole thing?
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,956
Ok, go to the slightly steeper crown end and as deep as the range suggests.
And longer lower girdle facets.
Or stay with what was recommended as the balance there is exceptional. 785852
And how close you can focus makes the star darker: 798237
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
Ok, go to the slightly steeper crown end and as deep as the range suggests.
And longer lower girdle facets.
Or stay with what was recommended as the balance there is exceptional. 1602651094311.png
And how close you can focus makes the star darker: shallow girl gif.gif

Thanks so much Garry! Haha that GIF is my brain in a nutshell right now :lol:

This is one that has caught my eye, I think the numbers are in line with what I am after:

1610418498907.png

 
Last edited:

Jsand

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
232
Oh wow that's interesting! Do you know if your .53 would have that darkening effect that ideal stones can have in bright lighting? I'm trying to figure out if that is more common in larger stones :)
it didn’t, but neither does my .70! My original CBI was a .41, that one did go dark in direct sunlight.
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
it didn’t, but neither does my .70! My original CBI was a .41, that one did go dark in direct sunlight.

Do you happen to know the angles for any of the diamonds? I really don't like the idea of mine going dark and I've been trying to figure out if there is anyway to predict in which stones this will happen. Everywhere I look seems to say it can happen to some ideal cut diamonds but I can't find anything that can be specifically used to predict this. Was the darkening effect something that bothered you? Do you feel like the diamonds that don't go dark are lacking in other areas at all? I really want to try my best to choose the right diamond, I live in Australia so sending them back and forth would be a big pain.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,956
it didn’t, but neither does my .70! My original CBI was a .41, that one did go dark in direct sunlight.

The dark in sunlight effect is related to cut quality and cloudless sky.
The BETTER the cut the DARKER the diamond goes.
There are 2 blogs on my HD website about it if you want to learn more.
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
The dark in sunlight effect is related to cut quality and cloudless sky.
The BETTER the cut the DARKER the diamond goes.
There are 2 blogs on my HD website about it if you want to learn more.

Thanks you Garry I will have a read :) What confuses me however is that this darkening does not seem to happen with all ideal cuts and I am just wondering if there is a way to know in which ones this will not happen. I realise that the best of the best will do this but is there a middle ground where a diamond will perform really well without this effect occurring? I realise there would likely be a tradeoff in performance.

On a similar note this diamond ( I believe they mat be a member her from memory) is a very high quality one but to be honest the level of darkness it shows really scares me. Is this what I can expect from all super-ideals or is this similar to the sunlight issue where some will do this and others will not?

 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
Are we confusing obstruction of lighting as per my girl gif?
Or darkeness in direct sunlight?

I think I may be incorrectly conflating the two, or possibly its that I'm afraid of both things potentially happening. I think I just dont like the look of darkenss in a diamond and Im trying to safeguard against it is all situations, probably unrealistic on my part when dealing with super ideals?
 

sugarcloud

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 17, 2020
Messages
76
No one should ever look at a diamond in direct sunlight. Never ever!

Haha well to be honest the issue with direct sunlight is not as much of a concern, its more so the idea that the diamond would look black under artificial lighting like int he video I posted. I think I just need to see some super ideals in person and go form there.
 

lambskin

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 22, 2012
Messages
2,359
I am no expert but , for over sixty years, I have viewed diamonds in all kinds of lighting situations and frankly, even with crappy cut diamonds or poor color diamonds, I have never seen a diamond look dark as in that video. Listen to the experts here on PS such as Gary...you find the stone for you! Good luck.
 

Jsand

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
232
Do you happen to know the angles for any of the diamonds? I really don't like the idea of mine going dark and I've been trying to figure out if there is anyway to predict in which stones this will happen. Everywhere I look seems to say it can happen to some ideal cut diamonds but I can't find anything that can be specifically used to predict this. Was the darkening effect something that bothered you? Do you feel like the diamonds that don't go dark are lacking in other areas at all? I really want to try my best to choose the right diamond, I live in Australia so sending them back and forth would be a big pain.
No it didn’t bother me, but I wasn’t looking at it too much in glaring sunlight! Whilst I understand that better cuts appear darker in direct sun, somehow to my eye the E always seemed bright, I don’t remember much if any darkness.
I’ll try and find the angles later for you!
 
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