Dilemma-need advice

[arjunajane]

Hi everyone,
as some of you may have read, my previous thread explained jewelers in Australia being very *unkind* when you mention you are purchasing a diamond from O/Seas. I was having discussions about stones a number of weeks ago with a certain Australian company who also trade on the internet. Once the sales person discovered they could not get my sale as I had chosen a proprietry cut from the US that they don''t have access to (the PoH), they were then very rude to me.

(For anyone that has read my previous thread on a simliar topic, pls note this is NOT the guy that sent me THAT email, rather a different dealer).

After I reprimanded them by email for being unprofessional, I received an offer from the manager (I think), that he would like to make my ring for me at "cost price", using the diamond I''m buying from O/seas. He offered this in apology for his staff being rude, and as he said "to keep all their customers happy". This is not what I was looking for at all, and was completely unexpected.

Sooo.. I am on a very tight budget and having something made at cost would be a dream. However I am more than hesitant about accepting the offer.
Even though their workmanship on their website looks quite good, I would still be Very concerned that I may end up with a sub-par ring. Or worse, they may damage or do something to my stone.

. They were Very unprofessional and just plain rude in their emails - however, that was just a salesperson, who obviously won''t be making the ring.

What should I do????

 

[kcoursolle]

Before worrying about making a decision, I would find out what "at cost" actually is. I would get a quote for your ring and see how it compares to who you would rather work with. It may not actually be at cost or that much cheaper than US online dealers even after the shipping costs.

If it is substantially cheaper and sit and think about it for a while. Do you trust them to make you a fabulous ring? Are you going to feel comfortable with the entire transaction and are they also going to be happy to have you as a customer?

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Hmmmm. I don't know where you are sourcing your stone but if it is a PS vendor you may just want to have them set it into a ring.

alOTOH, I have a diamond that I would like to have reset. I have spoken to a number of possible candidates and nobody gave me any grief about not being the vendors of the stone [I have had the stone for about 12 years]. Instead, they seem to be all over the project.

Something else you might want to consider is going to an independent craftsperson [a la Leon Mege or Mark Morrell here in the US]. I also know a few spectacular independent jewelers [craftspeople] near me [in the Boston area]. They are true artists. I am sure you can find some near you and they will make what you want and perhaps give you some creative ideas too. Is an art school near you, a museum school [like where I studied jewelry, silver and gold smithing]? How about the faculty, maybe? Just a thought . . .

Get the stone you want. I am sure you can find somebody that can make a great setting for you if you look around.

Note: I saw some very cool settings from Saturn Jeweles: http://www.saturnjewels.com/. I emailed them directly and they quickly replied that they would be happy to design a custom reset for my EC. That, or somebody like them, might be another possibility.

Don't let these people intimidate you.

Hope this helps.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 2/11/2008 10:08:05 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Before worrying about making a decision, I would find out what ''at cost'' actually is. I would get a quote for your ring and see how it compares to who you would rather work with. It may not actually be at cost or that much cheaper than US online dealers even after the shipping costs.

If it is substantially cheaper and sit and think about it for a while. Do you trust them to make you a fabulous ring? Are you going to feel comfortable with the entire transaction and are they also going to be happy to have you as a customer?

That is excellent advice...take it!

 

[arjunajane]

Hi Kcoursolle, Italia''s right, you have given excellent advice.
I guess I should go with my gut and seeing as I''m already hesitant about it..
Cheers for posting. I am waiting for a quote at moment.

 

[arjunajane]

Hi Diamantblu, you have given some very good ideas - Unfortunately, I am posting from Australia, where they are not as open minded about setting someone else''s stone. If they even do it, they charge an extra premium on the mount as you haven''t purchased a stone from them.
The link you gave me is gorgeous settings, however I''m afraid most of the names you''ve mentioned are a bit outta my price range.
I pretty much what I want - I just need to either find someone to make it good quality locally, or purchase from US,which will be cheaper, but when I''ve only ever seen pics of the rings on the web...
tough decision

 

[kcoursolle]

Date: 2/11/2008 11:36:07 PM
Author: arjunajane
Hi Diamantblu, you have given some very good ideas - Unfortunately, I am posting from Australia, where they are not as open minded about setting someone else''s stone. If they even do it, they charge an extra premium on the mount as you haven''t purchased a stone from them.
The link you gave me is gorgeous settings, however I''m afraid most of the names you''ve mentioned are a bit outta my price range.
I pretty much what I want - I just need to either find someone to make it good quality locally, or purchase from US,which will be cheaper, but when I''ve only ever seen pics of the rings on the web...
tough decision

I''ve never gone wrong the times when I''ve listened to my gut. However, it doesn''t hurt to get a quote and see if you really can get a good deal. However, someone very wise here says a "deal is only a deal if you get what you want" and I think that is great advice.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/11/2008 10:08:05 PM
Author: kcoursolle
Before worrying about making a decision, I would find out what ''at cost'' actually is. I would get a quote for your ring and see how it compares to who you would rather work with. It may not actually be at cost or that much cheaper than US online dealers even after the shipping costs.

If it is substantially cheaper and sit and think about it for a while. Do you trust them to make you a fabulous ring? Are you going to feel comfortable with the entire transaction and are they also going to be happy to have you as a customer?

Hi again,
he has quoted me $1500 (australian), (about $1300 US), to make a custom copy of this Michael Bondanza ring - (the same one as Facetfires

)
This is absolutely the setting that I want. The cheapest that I''ve been quoted so far in Aust is about $2700..
And to actually get one through pearlmans, straight from Bondanza, was about $2300.US.

What should I do? We had a quick discussion, and he said he would be using f-g Vs diamonds,(same ct weight,approx 0.15 to 0.20tcw) 18kt gold with a solid shank (not hollowing it out), so it doesn''t Sound like he''s looking to cut corners. Although I have no idea what other ways goldsmiths can save money when making a designer..

Considering the other quotes, does this seem TOO cheap? Do you think it would just be a banged - together job for that price? Or is this actually representitive of "cost pricing".
If there are any ppl in the trade reading this, any deigners, goldsmiths, I would Really apprecaite if you could chime in whether this is "cost pricing" or a cutting corners type job??

I have to admit, I''m happy he is making an effort to make amends, but I''m still not completely sure of his motives...Should I stop being skeptical and except that I am actually maybe getting that rarest of things, a "good deal"

So confused

Would appreciate any and all opinions.

 

[honey22]

Call me a party-pooper but my instincts are saying take your stone and run in the opposite direction. It seems very strange that he would go to such a lenth to keep you happy. I could understand an offer to do work at cost price if you just dropped the $$$$ there on the stone, or had something made and it turned into a disaster, but this just doesn''t feel right.

I don''t know, it''s kinda like, I wouldn''t take the cheapest quote from a brain surgeon for an operation either, it''s too important not to end up with a dodgy job. This is such an important purchase, you really need to be happy.

Where are you getting the stone? Can you have it set there too?

Have you called Gary Holloway in Melbourne for setting? Probably not the cheapest but I am sure would be fantastic work!

 

[arjunajane]

Honey22, thankyou for your post, I hear what ur saying..

Does anyone else have anything to add? Its coming up on decision time...

 

[softly softly]

If your budget allows I''d go with the original as that is the design you have fallen in love with, and it is unlikely there will be any unpleasant surprises with regards to the quality of the finish. A copy will always be a copy. That''s not to say you can''t get a custom piece of comparable quality, but rather that it will not be exactly the same and you may still end up disappointed.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/12/2008 3:13:36 AM
Author: honey22

Call me a party-pooper but my instincts are saying take your stone and run in the opposite direction. It seems very strange that he would go to such a lenth to keep you happy. I could understand an offer to do work at cost price if you just dropped the $$$$ there on the stone, or had something made and it turned into a disaster, but this just doesn''t feel right.

I don''t know, it''s kinda like, I wouldn''t take the cheapest quote from a brain surgeon for an operation either, it''s too important not to end up with a dodgy job. This is such an important purchase, you really need to be happy.

Where are you getting the stone? Can you have it set there too?

Have you called Gary Holloway in Melbourne for setting? Probably not the cheapest but I am sure would be fantastic work!

Hi Honey, I have more time to answer your Q''s now - LOL i like your brain analogy.

I''m looking at stones fron GOG - I''ve requested a quote for custom from them for same design, as unfortunately I don''t love any of their featured settings.
I haven''t spoken to Gary - to be honest, I''m in Perth which to Melbourne..well for a bad comparison, is like Texas to Canada..not impossible, but if I''m going to pay more to buy in Aust, would rather go local.

Thankyou softly softly for posting, I Haven''t completely decided yet but I''ve a feeling I don''t trust this guy. I''ll probably play it safe, pay a bit more and go with Pearlmans.

 

[katebar]

Aunajane I am sorry that this is becoming a difficult time when it should be one of great joy and excitement.
But the reality is some jewellers in Australia view wll educated consumers with disdain and are quick to try and ''put us in our place'' for daring to think outside the square.
I found Garry team to be supportive but I appeciate its a long way to go partucularly if anything goes wrong.
having said that thugh I have posted a few items that Garry made for down for replating etc but obviously not my beautiful ER.
I think though it is important to factor in the duty on your ring if in fact you get it made in the US.
You will pay GST on the diamond AND on the setting plus other duty which seems to be about IIR 1%.
Is there are chance you can ''holiday'' in New York pick up yoour ring and wear it home?
Thats what I plan to do if ever I buy another ring.
good luck

 

[diamondseeker2006]

It''s almost impossible to say unless you have seen this person''s workmanship on similar settings. I''d probably take a risk on someone like Mark Morrell making that setting, but not just anyone. Really, I think it''s worth getting the original for peace of mind.

 

[mrssalvo]

well, it''s no secret that i''m a big advocate for getting the original if possible. nothing wrong with custom at all when you want minor or major changes, but and exact copy will most likely not be exact. the designer has the design perfected, makes it day in and day out. someone just making it for the first time is a recipe for disappointment, especially something that isn''t *easy*. And sure, you''d be saving a few hundred dollars but that''s quite a bit different than a few thousand and since i just wanted over 2 years to get my dream ring, i think saving up a little longer to get what you want would be worth it

 

[honey22]

Date: 2/12/2008 7:30:34 PM
Author: katebar
Aunajane I am sorry that this is becoming a difficult time when it should be one of great joy and excitement.
But the reality is some jewellers in Australia view wll educated consumers with disdain and are quick to try and ''put us in our place'' for daring to think outside the square.
I found Garry team to be supportive but I appeciate its a long way to go partucularly if anything goes wrong.
having said that thugh I have posted a few items that Garry made for down for replating etc but obviously not my beautiful ER.
I think though it is important to factor in the duty on your ring if in fact you get it made in the US.
You will pay GST on the diamond AND on the setting plus other duty which seems to be about IIR 1%.
Is there are chance you can ''holiday'' in New York pick up yoour ring and wear it home?
Thats what I plan to do if ever I buy another ring.
good luck

Just a side note on the taxes. I am awaiting my ering to come from the US to me here in Melbourne. I have checked with Fedex, and when the ring arrives, I will get a bill from for the customs import taxes which is 10% of the US price. For example, if the total amount is $6000 AUS, you will need to pay $600 import taxes. If you go overseas and pick it up, if the ring reaches over a certain amount, you will still need to pay duties on it when returning to Australia, but I am not sure of the rates.

Honestly, I got a much better deal in the US, even with the 10% import taxes. All up, for a similar stone (branded H&A Ideal, but I think not as good a branded cut as the ACA I have bought), I have saved anywhere from $700 - 2000, than if I purchased it from an Australian online vendor. I paid approx $6.5K Aussie total, and the nearest quote I got here for the same thing was $7400 - 8500. That price further increased at B&M stores, eg. $9000, $11,000 and one whopping $21,000!!

 

[arjunajane]

(Katebar wrote)Is there are chance you can ''holiday'' in New York pick up yoour ring and wear it home?
Thats what I plan to do if ever I buy another ring.

Hi again Katebar - I totally WISH!!I would LOVE

to go to NY, diamond or no,

but alas I''m just a poor lil 20-something y/old, too busy working and studying!

Just on a total sidenote..Anyone from Aust will know what I''m talkin about, but it is SOOOO expensive to live in Perth at the moment ! I have spoken to a nbr of ppl, and apparently its more expensive to rent in Perth than in Paris! We have long ago eclipsed Sydney, and I wouldn''t be surprised if we''re creeping up on NY..well, maybe not that bad, but you get the point

I love living in Aust - you guys can see in my avatar some of the gorgeous scenery in our backyards..But geez, its difficult being a working student!

Pls don''t think I am whinging, just jabbering..

To prove I love where I live, i have posted a pic of the view of the Perth skyline from my townhouse..it is currently an average of 39 degrees (celsius) at the moment...Just thought I''d like to share with you guys. How is everything in your side of the world?

However, I digress. .But thankyou kate for ur sympathies and support - that is a very nice idea, I will have to bank it for now though. I didn''t know about that extra 1% tax you mentioned, so I guess I will need to do some more research. I already got stung from customs a nbr of yrs ago..I will tell a diamond story now, if you guys don''t mind:

When I got engaged couple yrs ago, me and my wonderful *gushes* Fi went on a 6week holiday and had a ring custom made O/seas. We got a gorgeous ring that would''ve cost us another couple grand to buy in Perth (pls keep in mind I didn''t know about PS at this time

).On the way back into Oz, being young and wateva, we were singled out by customs. They went through Everything, I think they were convinced we had drugs

. Well, two hours later, no drugs were found, but they did find the receipt for my brand new E-ring - and then slapped me with a $450 GST bill!!

I think they did it just cuz they were mad they spent so much time and didn''t get any contraband - technically, as its a gift, GST shouldn''t actually apply..Thus tey pretty much defeated our grand scheme of buying O/seas to save

. Oh well, lesson learnt.

So Honey22, I hear you re customs tax - we will get slogged when bringing in jewellery no matter how we do it (unless maybe we swallow and smuggle our diamonds!

).

Back to the issue at hand, DS and Mrs, I think I agree with you with this style of ring. If it were a simple solitaire, it may be a diff story. But of course in typical me style, nothing is simple! I have asked GOG, where I''m getting my amazing POH, about having that ring made custom, and am waiting to hear back.

So, I have 3 choices:
1>Buy the *real deal* from Bondanza, through Pearlmans..(shout out to Jason, who is a champion!)

2>Today, I got a reasonable quote from a local very well respected jeweller. He is young and innovative and has won many design awards here. He has just got back from an extended apprenticeship in Italy and NY. If anyone is interest, this is him: www.rohanmilne.com. I am leaning toward this option, as this way I get to be involved directly in the whole process - this will make me much more comfortable I think.

3>Have the ring "copied" custom at GOG (still waiting for quote at moment).

I would Love anybody''s feedback on these options
Sorry for my such a long post, I know its a shocker! I hope you folks don''t mind.
Cheers!

 

[mrssalvo]

well, it certainly doesn''t hurt to pursue all your options and see what the quotes turn out to be. but i''d still probably vote #1 and just get the real deal.

 

[LegacyGirl]

Yeah if you can afford it I woudl get the real thing. That way there will be no worries and you know what you are getting.

 

[softly softly]

Hi Arjunajane - just wanted to thank you for posting that beautiful picture of Perth. I used to overlook it myself a couple of years ago and still find myself missing it. You are so right about how ridiculously expensive Perth is these days. My husband and I still can''t believe we foolishly sold a flat we owned in West Perth just before prices went crazy. He works in the mining industry, so we really should have known better. Oh well.

Sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck with your ring.

 

[katebar]

Hi Arua jane just found an old post of mine about duty. This is what garry from Precious Metals said about set jewellery "
5% import duty with 10% GST on top.
So that = 16.5% plus handling charges
Here is the thread Aussie Pser''s buying in the USA

 

[honey22]

Date: 2/13/2008 1:31:35 AM
Author: honey22

Date: 2/12/2008 7:30:34 PM
Author: katebar
Aunajane I am sorry that this is becoming a difficult time when it should be one of great joy and excitement.
But the reality is some jewellers in Australia view wll educated consumers with disdain and are quick to try and ''put us in our place'' for daring to think outside the square.
I found Garry team to be supportive but I appeciate its a long way to go partucularly if anything goes wrong.
having said that thugh I have posted a few items that Garry made for down for replating etc but obviously not my beautiful ER.
I think though it is important to factor in the duty on your ring if in fact you get it made in the US.
You will pay GST on the diamond AND on the setting plus other duty which seems to be about IIR 1%.
Is there are chance you can ''holiday'' in New York pick up yoour ring and wear it home?
Thats what I plan to do if ever I buy another ring.
good luck

Just a side note on the taxes. I am awaiting my ering to come from the US to me here in Melbourne. I have checked with Fedex, and when the ring arrives, I will get a bill from for the customs import taxes which is 10% of the US price. For example, if the total amount is $6000 AUS, you will need to pay $600 import taxes. If you go overseas and pick it up, if the ring reaches over a certain amount, you will still need to pay duties on it when returning to Australia, but I am not sure of the rates.

Honestly, I got a much better deal in the US, even with the 10% import taxes. All up, for a similar stone (branded H&A Ideal, but I think not as good a branded cut as the ACA I have bought), I have saved anywhere from $700 - 2000, than if I purchased it from an Australian online vendor. I paid approx $6.5K Aussie total, and the nearest quote I got here for the same thing was $7400 - 8500. That price further increased at B&M stores, eg. $9000, $11,000 and one whopping $21,000!!

I just checked with Fedex again regarding duties, taxes etc. My mistake was the 10% was actually the GST, not import taxes. So, breakdown as follows, 10% GST, $0 customs duty and an import processing fee of around $40. TOTAL. I am not sure if this has changed since Gary''s post in early 2006. I have also emailed Customs Australia with this figures to get confirmation from them. I will repost when I have confirmation.

 

[arjunajane]

Date: 2/13/2008 3:57:17 PM
Author: softly softly
Hi Arjunajane - just wanted to thank you for posting that beautiful picture of Perth. I used to overlook it myself a couple of years ago and still find myself missing it. You are so right about how ridiculously expensive Perth is these days. My husband and I still can''t believe we foolishly sold a flat we owned in West Perth just before prices went crazy. He works in the mining industry, so we really should have known better. Oh well.

Sorry to hijack your thread. Good luck with your ring.

Softly, not hijacking at all! I enjoy relating to someone local

I took that pic,
just wit my mobile phone camera, so i gotta do some danage when I get a proper camera. You guys must be kicking urselves re the flat u sold! me and my fi are the same - we were gonna get the first home owners grant to get a unit, but we decided we deserved a holiday instead - then the prices just went Crazy! But seeing as you hubby is one of the smart ones takling advantage of the mining boom, you guys should be ok anyway, right!

I''m tryin to encourage my boy to go up there too, even just for a yr - great

Anyway, sorry everyone for being so pesonal!

Katebar and Honey, cheers for posting about the taxes, that info is very helpfull.
Make sure you start a new thread wen you get a reply from customs, Honey?