Dilemma between very good or signature ideal cushion cut

[Sophia81]

Hi All

This is my first post on PriceScope. My husband and I are looking to buy a cushion cut engagement ring after 13 years together and 3 years of marriage

I initially thought I would only purchase a diamond with ideal cut proportions, mostly likely one of GOG's signature modern cushions, however to remain within our budget and get close to 1ct we would need to go down to a J colour. I tried some cushion cut diamonds on at the weekend at our local diamond district in London and was offered a GIA certified 0.90 ct F, VS2 Ex Polish and VG symmetry that is within our budget which looked very pretty to my untrained eye.

My questions are; do I go for a GIA 'Very Good' cushion cut which is very white with excellent polish or do I go for a diamond from the GOG signature range with assured good optical performance at a much lower colour? and is there a noticeable difference between GIA Very good cushions and the GOG signature modern cushions?

Your thoughts are much appreciated!

Cheers,
Sophia

 

[Gypsy]

I'm confused. You post is unclear. And you don't really know what you are talking about.
GIA does not grade cushions for cut. So you do not have a "very good cut" cushion from GIA. You are mistaken in that. And anyone that TOLD YOU the cushion is "very good cut" needs to justify that, and also be VERY CLEAR, that the cut information is a in house grade not one the lab assigns.

That's WHY GOG posts the ASETs and the Brilliance scope information on all their "Signature" cushion lines. So they can PROVE that the performance of the diamond, and justify their in house grading of the performance of the diamond.

GOG is not an inexpensive vendor. But they do the searching for you, and justify their confidence in their stones with lots of information.

But you aren't stuck with buying from them to get a good cushion.

I don't know what your budget is, but... there are lots of vendors that have lower prices than GOG and also provide ASETs and images.

For example:
This is a cushion with excellent performance: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5127240-0.91-carat-Cushion-diamond-D-color-VS1-clarity.aspx $3,348
This is a cushion with very good performance: http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5082745-1.01-carat-Cushion-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx $3,219
This is another excellent cushion (I love this one): http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5109188-1.01-carat-Cushion-diamond-I-color-VS1-clarity.aspx $3,118
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-5127241-0.92-carat-Cushion-diamond-D-color-VS2-clarity.aspx $3,450 Another excellent performer.

Notice that the first one, that I am telling you has excellent performance is only rated "good cut" by the vendor? And the one below it that I said had very good performance is called "very good" by the vendor? Which makes it sound like the second one is a better ston than the first? In direct contradiction to what I said? That's because vendor's like B2C's in house grading for fancy cuts is well... crap. James Allen used to do this too, and thankfully stopped. Ignore the vendor labels of cut, unless that vendor is like GOG and can justify the rating.

From Blue Nile there are these two with teh G-Cal report to justify their performance (and we've seen several of these on the boards and they are gorgeous):
http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?filter_id=0&pt=sig&track=NavDiaSigCU#diamonds_pid=LD04332034 and http://www.bluenile.com/cushion-cut-diamond-1-carat-or-less-signature-ideal-cut-h-color-si1-clarity_LD03808092


Also please note that when comparing cushions for size DO NOT COMPARE CARAT WEIGHT. Compare spread and measurements.


So basically, in answer to your question, I have to re-write your question.
This is what you were asking, in reality (and it's the reason you got no other responses): Should I buy a stone from a vendor that provides me with a ton of information, even though it is a J color, despite the fact that they are a pricier vendor? Or should I buy a stone that I've only seen with my uneducated eyes, that I know nothing about.

The answer is neither.

You should be able to find a lovely stone that is I color or higher at a different vendor, who will also provide you with ASETs or G-Cal reports, or someone combination of both... with or without a video, and chose that stone.

 

[Gypsy]

Here are some stones at James Allen that you could put on hold (no cost, no obligation) and ask for an ASET image of:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-sku-297898 $2,940 ask if eyeclean
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/0.91-carat-g-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-305311 $3,380
http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/cushion-cut/1.01-carat-i-color-vs2-clarity-sku-313245 3,560

You get ONLY three ASETs per stone purchase. So make sure you like all the stones you ask for ASETs of.

 

[SirGuy]

Gypsy makes a good and direct point, worth further consideration.

I think part of the difficulty in understanding and appreciating cuts like this is that there isn't any standard or regulated cut, or standardized methodology for grading it. That's why many vendors offer images, like Ideal-Scope and ASET, so end consumers can more easily appreciate an approximation of real life light performance. The issue is that there isn't a mandated or standard cut, where if you don't do it exactly that way it doesn't get a label.

I'll give an analogy with sports cars. As it exists in the US, there are federal mandates and regulations related to engine performance, fuel efficiency, and rated power output. You can compare a Honda with a 1.9L displacement and 200 horsepower with an Audi with a 3.6L motor with 300 horsepower, and feel pretty comfortable drawing conclusions. The numbers are standardized and the same across the board.

But what if you're building a sports car that won't be street legal, and therefore doesn't have to conform to certain government restrictions like those put on by NHTSA and the EPA?

What if you're buying a souped-up track car with no standard window sticker? How do you know to believe the claim of output (horsepower and torque?). Well, you can look at the dyno (computer) readings of how the engine performs in a controlled setting. But you don't know how reliable that is unless you've vetted the shop. If it's a big name like Saleen (equivalent of GoG here) then they're an industry leader who do a lot of their own work. It's pretty trustworthy. But if it's Uncle Jimmy in his garage, maybe not.

There are all sorts of house grades, but remember, they're the ones selling the stone. Usually we seek outside reports from GIA or AGS, but sometimes that's not feasible depending on the proprietary cut. In those cases, you'll have to look at the evidence. That's why GoG provides all of that info...to help one make a properly informed decision.

Hope this helps. Best of luck!

 

[Lorelei]

Hi All

This is my first post on PriceScope. My husband and I are looking to buy a cushion cut engagement ring after 13 years together and 3 years of marriage

I initially thought I would only purchase a diamond with ideal cut proportions, mostly likely one of GOG's signature modern cushions, however to remain within our budget and get close to 1ct we would need to go down to a J colour. I tried some cushion cut diamonds on at the weekend at our local diamond district in London and was offered a GIA certified 0.90 ct F, VS2 Ex Polish and VG symmetry that is within our budget which looked very pretty to my untrained eye.

My questions are; do I go for a GIA 'Very Good' cushion cut which is very white with excellent polish or do I go for a diamond from the GOG signature range with assured good optical performance at a much lower colour? and is there a noticeable difference between GIA Very good cushions and the GOG signature modern cushions?

Your thoughts are much appreciated!

Cheers,
Sophia

Hi Sophia,

As you are in London, I highly recommend you contact Rob van Beurden at www.fortrez.com to see if he can source you the type of cushion you want.

Labels such as Very Good etc to describe a level of cut quality can be meaningless and no guarantee of a well cut and beautiful diamond unfortunately. We have no way of knowing what GIA base this opinion on, it could be something like the depth and table fall within certain range which is no way to evaluate the cut of a diamond nor an assurance of it's beauty. Gypsy and Sir Guy gave you excellent information, SG's car analogy is one I often use myself as I find it very helpful for other consumers. As with a car, you need to look under the bonnet and drive the car to get an idea of how it performs, diamonds are actually similar, you want to make sure it has a reliable and efficient engine to power the sparkle, without that you will have a dull lacklustre diamond.

As to your questions, thoughts below in bold.

My questions are; do I go for a GIA 'Very Good' cushion cut which is very white with excellent polish or do I go for a diamond from the GOG signature range with assured good optical performance at a much lower colour? It's up to you of course and your preferences, I would go for the lower colour and best cut possible every time, but people value different things, if having the most beautiful cushion possible is important to you, then GOG is most definitely the way to go. If you absolutely have to have the highest colour grade you can get, bearing in mind that even a lower colour better cut stone could still look very white, then go for the higher colour. As you now know, the GIA VG cut label is no guarantee of a level of cut or beauty. Polish and symmetry, it is said very good and above are indistinguishable to the naked untrained eye, well cut diamonds will usually have VG for each where possible as a result of superior planning and craftsmanship.

and is there a noticeable difference between GIA Very good cushions and the GOG signature modern cushions? We cannot account for individual preference and ideas of beauty here, but again you now know that the GIA VG is no indication of a diamond's good looks, the GOG signature modern cushions are hand selected by an expert for the maximum optical performance and beauty, to me there is most definitely a difference if we are speaking generally as we don't have specific examples. Below is a video you might find very useful that has some comparisons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O7H8E_MYRM

I hope this helps!

 

[Sophia81]

Thanks Gypsy, Sir Guy and Lorelei for your replies.

Gypsy - I take your points on board, I'll focus on diamonds with asset and brilliance scope information rather than the GIA certification.

Cheers also for the links to the diamonds and links to other reputable vendors. They have great specs and asset info for the price and I'm glad to know that, with the options posted, I don't have to go down as far as J colour as I had noticed the warmth in the J colour cushion I viewed.