Did I get ripped off?

[FishInPercolator]

Hello all, I am new here and this is my first post. Please pardon any ignorance.

After spending two days in the diamond district, I ended up with a GIA graded diamond that is rated as follows:

Carat: .79
Color: H
Clarity: SI2
Cut: Very Good
Clarity Characteristics: Twinning Wisp
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent

However, when I plug in the following dimensions into the Holloway Cut Advisor, I get a fair grade :/

Depth: 60.7%
Table: 61.7%
Crown: 34.7 degrees
Pavil: 41.5 degrees
Culet: .1%

When I shine a flashlight or laser pointer at it I see lots of fire, but Holloway claims poor. The results are:

Light Return Good
Fire Poor
Scintillation Poor
Spread
or diameter for weight Very Good
Total Visual Performance 6.5 - Fair

I spent $2700 on this diamond. Comparable GIA graded ones (Excluding dimension considerations) seem to go for $2900ish.

Please advise, I would appreciate it very much and thanks in advance.

 

[kenny]

If you got a money back guarantee I'd return it.
If not just enjoy it.

If you can pick another diamond, reject rounds scoring over 2.0 on HCA.
Next step is to get an Idealscope image and compare it to this chart.

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/ideal-scope



You can buy your own Idealscope here.
http://www.ideal-scope.com/cart_order.asp
You can carry it into the store.
If they balk, walk.

 

[bunnycat]

Part of what you are seeing in those results is that the table is bigger than the depth which is generally not a good recipe.

Ditto what Kenny says. If you are able to exchange/return, I would. You can then look online or at physical stores and I second his recommendation to buy a little idealscope to take with you.

In general, you want to look at stones that have around

54-58 table
60-62.3 depth
crown angle 34-35 (or in that very very near vicinity)
pavilion angle 40.6-41

Also, you want to look at stones in a realistic lighting situation. Unless you shine flashlights on rings all the time, or are in a jewelry store all the time, those aren't the conditions which will be the prevailing ones. You really want to see what you think of it near a window, in natural light, or under fluorescent lighting. Those would be common light conditions and those are the ones where you will start to notice problems if there are any, rather than the special jewelry store lights that make everything super sparkly.

 

[msop04]

...you want to look at stones in a realistic lighting situation. Unless you shine flashlights on rings all the time, or are in a jewelry store all the time, those aren't the conditions which will be the prevailing ones.

You really want to see what you think of it near a window, in natural light, or under fluorescent lighting. Those would be common light conditions and those are the ones where you will start to notice problems if there are any, rather than the special jewelry store lights that make everything super sparkly.

Truth.

 

[msop04]

Hi Fish,

If you can return or exchange the diamond, I would do so. When shopping, only look at GIA Excellent cut (or AGS 0) with the specs that bastecat listed. Then come back on PS and post the info for the stone(s) you find. The veterans here will not steer you wrong!! Cut is key.

 

[yssie]

...you want to look at stones in a realistic lighting situation. Unless you shine flashlights on rings all the time, or are in a jewelry store all the time, those aren't the conditions which will be the prevailing ones.

You really want to see what you think of it near a window, in natural light, or under fluorescent lighting. Those would be common light conditions and those are the ones where you will start to notice problems if there are any, rather than the special jewelry store lights that make everything super sparkly.

Truth.

Oh, let's all be honest now - don't *you* two have penlights on your keychains?

 

[msop04]

...you want to look at stones in a realistic lighting situation. Unless you shine flashlights on rings all the time, or are in a jewelry store all the time, those aren't the conditions which will be the prevailing ones.

You really want to see what you think of it near a window, in natural light, or under fluorescent lighting. Those would be common light conditions and those are the ones where you will start to notice problems if there are any, rather than the special jewelry store lights that make everything super sparkly.

Truth.

Oh, let's all be honest now - don't *you* two have penlights on your keychains?

BUSTED!! ...if only it would spotlight my left ring finger 24/7!!

 

[FishInPercolator]

Thanks all.

I think I might have a problem returning it even though the guy agreed to a 10 day exchange policy. Since I'm under the gun I will have to see if I can find a replacement tomorrow. Setting will arrive the day after. Proposal the day after that.

Under natural light conditions the stone looks great in my opinion, but now having actually done some research while having the diamond on hand, I believe I am suffering under what people term analysis paralysis.

Question, would this diamond be worth the $2700 I paid for it? How overpriced is it?

It's funny, I mistakenly put 40.5 degrees for the pavilion and the calculator said "very good" across the board. So it's off by a single degree for a 1.6 rating. Sheesh.

I hope the vendor makes me a happy customer tomorrow.

 

[yssie]

Thanks all.

I think I might have a problem returning it even though the guy agreed to a 10 day exchange policy. Since I'm under the gun I will have to see if I can find a replacement tomorrow. Setting will arrive the day after. Proposal the day after that.

Under natural light conditions the stone looks great in my opinion, but now having actually done some research while having the diamond on hand, I believe I am suffering under what people term analysis paralysis.

Question, would this diamond be worth the $2700 I paid for it? How overpriced is it?

It's funny, I mistakenly put 40.5 degrees for the pavilion and the calculator said "very good" across the board. So it's off by a single degree for a 1.6 rating. Sheesh.

I hope the vendor makes me a happy customer tomorrow.

Unfortunately the pav is the diamond's driver and that one degree makes a whole heck of a lot of difference. If you're in NYC there are lots of PS vendors nearby - if you have some time to spare before going back to return or exchange it I would suggest making some appointments and seeing some different types of stones IRL so that you can make an educated decision re. returning/replacing.

 

[FishInPercolator]

I must have seen about 10 stones without anyone mentioning these specifications. I was basing my decision on the four Cs.

 

[yssie]

I must have seen about 10 stones without anyone mentioning these specifications. I was basing my decision on the four Cs.

I'm sorry to hear that.
The cut is what we're questioning with this stone. Unfortunately because it requires a much more detailed explanation than the other three it's often glossed over.

 

[msop04]

Question, would this diamond be worth the $2700 I paid for it? How overpriced is it?

I haven't seen your stone, of course, but here is one from JA that has the same color & clarity, but MUCH better ranges and EX cut for $2800. I think it would be eye-clean - it looks pretty dang good to me. Also, JA gives PS members a 1-5% discount... just something to think about.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-dia...-h-color-si2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-182566

 

[msop04]

Fish,

I wouldn't so much be worried about the stone you got being overpriced so much as maybe not getting what you paid for... Hopefully, you will have no trouble returning it.

 

[oldminer]

You describe the diamond you bought as GIA graded for color, cut, and clarity, then you tell us other GIA graded ones were more money. Is your stone "GIA graded" one with another lab's document or just with grading done by the seller? I don't see you posting the crown height percentage. That factor may be a bit low as the size of the diameter is estimated to be larger and that likely is the source of the added diameter.

If the diamond does not have a GIA report, then anything much beyond the weight and millimeter measurements is as likely to be "off" to the extent that no one can really tell you how well or poorly you did. Lots of consumers who buy without available knowledge are ripping themselves off.

If the diamond does have a GIA Report document, then the reason the diamond cost a bit less than others is that it is not as well cut as some others. Lesser cut quality usually allows a diamond to weigh more than if the cutter worked on it more to perfect the cut quality, so the cost per carat is a bit less. You may see the diamond as perfectly fine for you, but the many perfectionists on Pricescope will point you toward better cut diamonds and only you can decide if they are thinking like you do or if you prefer a bit of a cut compromise at a price point that suits you.

 

[SB621]

Honestly your mistake wasn't the priced you paid or the diamond. It is that you bought a diamond without doing enough research on a time crunch it sounds like from a vendor who doesn't do returns- only exchanges! Secondly- you just want us to justify that you got a good deal on an allright diamond so you can move forward with the proposal and not feel that you didn't do your best. Third- it also sounds like you purchased a setting which really sticks you with your current diamond and dimensions.

Based off of that I would step back from this purchase if the vendor lets you out. I don't think it is a deal and no matter how you cut it you can do better elsewhere, but it looks like you have already backed yourself in a corner. Put off your proposal and shop around some more for the best diamond you can get for your budget. Then get a setting. IDJ is in the diamond district and does amazing with a budget and time constraints. I would go with them if your current vendor lets you out.

 

[FishInPercolator]

I will try tomorrow and see if I can return it for something more ideal.

GIA rated it "Very Good", so I figured that was what I was paying for. And no, I didn't state that there were others that cost more. If I am able to apply your recommendations to a similar sized diamond for the same price I paid then I will proceed.

Attached are pictures.

 

[FishInPercolator]

Yes, I should have done more research but the research that I was able to come across stressed the four Cs. So I found this diamond with a Very Good Cut, decent clarity for the size and budget, almost colorless grade, and carat size that I was happy with (at least .75, this one being .79). I was just surprised that a Very Good cut would result in poor ratings via this calculator. It's unfortunate that I didn't come across any literature regarding pavilion, and table to depth ratios prior to my purchase. I only found out afterwards.

 

[msop04]

Honestly your mistake wasn't the priced you paid or the diamond. It is that you bought a diamond without doing enough research on a time crunch it sounds like from a vendor who doesn't do returns- only exchanges! Secondly- you just want us to justify that you got a good deal on an allright diamond so you can move forward with the proposal and not feel that you didn't do your best. Third- it also sounds like you purchased a setting which really sticks you with your current diamond and dimensions.

Based off of that I would step back from this purchase if the vendor lets you out. I don't think it is a deal and no matter how you cut it you can do better elsewhere, but it looks like you have already backed yourself in a corner. Put off your proposal and shop around some more for the best diamond you can get for your budget. Then get a setting. IDJ is in the diamond district and does amazing with a budget and time constraints. I would go with them if your current vendor lets you out.

I agree with Yssie... what's done is done. Did you overpay for the stone you got? In my opinion, yes. All other things equal, you could've gotten a better cut diamond for the same amount of money. (A diamond graded D/VVS1 with a Very Good cut will not be as brilliant as an H/eye clean with EX cut.) Although the 4 C's are of importance, the C that makes the biggest difference is cut.

I wish you the best and will be keeping my fingers crossed in hopes of a swift, hassle free return.

 

[FishInPercolator]

Alright, thanks everyone. Hopefully things will go alright tomorrow. I will keep you posted.

 

[SB621]

I just wanted to come back and say that by no means is the diamond a dud. Would I buy it-probably not. If you can return it great. If you can exchange it great too. If you can't then it is still a beautiful diamond. Yes you caould have done much better at a better price point too. But for a B&M experience I would say you did better then most. Certainly better then I did during my 1st diamond experience.

 

[FishInPercolator]

Well thanks.

My first diamond experience was just a walk-in Tiffanys purchase. At least I didn't make that same mistake twice

 

[bunnycat]

...you want to look at stones in a realistic lighting situation. Unless you shine flashlights on rings all the time, or are in a jewelry store all the time, those aren't the conditions which will be the prevailing ones.

You really want to see what you think of it near a window, in natural light, or under fluorescent lighting. Those would be common light conditions and those are the ones where you will start to notice problems if there are any, rather than the special jewelry store lights that make everything super sparkly.

Truth.

Oh, let's all be honest now - don't *you* two have penlights on your keychains?

BUSTED!! ...if only it would spotlight my left ring finger 24/7!!

HA HA HA!!! Actually, I may be one of the few people who really enjoys seeing all the various "faces" of my stone. It intrigues me in many lighting situations. But...hmmm...penlight on keychain...must go look for one now!

 

[FishInPercolator]

Update:

I was able to have my money refunded and from another vendor purchased the following:

Carat: .71
Color: I
Clarity: SI1
Cut: Excellent
Crown: 34.5 deg
Pav: 41.0 deg
Table: 56%
Depth: 62%

I plugged it into the HDC and got a rating of 1.6. I also saved more than a couple of a hundred dollars so I am quite pleased.

Thank you for all of your help.

 

[motownmama]

post the new stone and the final ring!

 

[msop04]

This is great news!! So glad for you -- can't wait to see the new stone!!

 

[soxfan]

 

[FishInPercolator]

Thanks, I'll post a pic once it's set.

 

[bunnycat]

The numbers sound much better on this one! DO post pics when you get it in!

 

[FishInPercolator]

Thanks. The HCA rating is actually 1.8 but presumably it's a nominal difference.

 

[bunnycat]

Thanks. The HCA rating is actually 1.8 but presumably it's a nominal difference.

HCA is just a rejection tool, meant to help weed out stones rather than to choose a stone. Things that score under 2 are worth investigation (though not a guarantee of anything) and getting idealscope images of to review light performance or at least seeing in person, which is what you are doing now.