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did anyone here go with tiffany''s?

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Atenay

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If so, do you regret it or are you satisfied? For those of you who haven''t read my previous threads, my situation in a nutshell is this: $2000 budget, girlfriend wants a platinum tiffany 6-prong solitaire, doesn''t care much about diamond size or about the tiffany brand. We can either go tiffany''s and get a .3 carat, or get a lesser quality setting and a .5-.6 carat diamond that fits within our parameters (G-J color, eyeclean and so on). I do know about signed pieces, but there is nothing available in our price range at the moment. I know there might not be many, or any, of you here, but I would like to hear from people who actually went with tiffany''s. My girlfriend thinks that replicas she has seen are not as nice as the real tiffany solitaire setting and she is willing to sacrifice size to get it, especially since the expense of a replica would significantly shrink the diamond budget anyway. I think she might regret this later and should reconsider a bigger stone, especially since she is not doing this for the name. We are not planning on upgrading, for sentimental as well as financial reasons, so this is it for the forseeable future. Those who have tiffany rings, are you happy with your decision? Would you do it again if you had to sacrifice carat weight for the tiffany design (if the name meant very little to you)? I want to hear about your experiences, please.
 
I don''t have a tiffany ering, but if the name means very little to her get it elsewhere. I think you can get more bang for your buck if you don''t care about the tiffany name.

Good luck! I''m sure some tiffany owners will chime in too!
 
I found this thread very interesting https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-day-at-tiffanys-with-the-i-scope.69733/ re Tiffany's and the quality of the stone.

I would put the majority of my money in an ACA stone from Whiteflash or Good old Gold and you can always upgrade because of their policy. I bought my stone from WF and wouldn't do it differently. I think I have a great quality stone.

Here is a .60 http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-540878.htm I would ask if it is eye clean and it is a G.

this one is from GOG http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3822/

Thought I would post a few diamonds so you could see the bang for your buck
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I love the Tiffany setting and would have possibly considered buying one from Signed Pieces. But what I have learned is that my diamonds from Good Old Gold and WhiteFlash are simply better cut quality than any Tiffany stones that I have seen. However, the solution really is to wait for a real Tiffany ring second hand if that is really her dream setting. You''re right that a fine replica in platinum is going to run $1200-1400 anyway. I do have reservations about how a very small diamond would look in that setting. So I''d really try to wait for a little larger size diamond from Signed Pieces so you can make the most of your budget. Call and tell them what you''re looking for and they may be able to call you when they get one in.
 
Ok, so you have the answer in your post, but I can see why you don't know what to do. You have some conflicting things going on.

She's telling you:
-girlfriend wants a platinum tiffany 6-prong solitaire
-My girlfriend thinks that replicas she has seen are not as nice as the real tiffany solitaire setting and she is willing to sacrifice size to get it

She's contradicting herself by saying:
-doesn't care much about diamond size or about the tiffany brand

You're worried because things have a chance to change down the road:
-I think she might regret this later and should reconsider a bigger stone, especially since she is not doing this for the name. We are not planning on upgrading.

We can safely say, that I think your girlfriend wants the Tiffany. And she says it's not about the brand or Tiffany, but the Tiffany setting is the Tiffany brand. That's why she's so stuck on it and won't let it go. She obviously wants it, and from your previous posts, she wants a new one, so no Signed Pieces.

Have you tried the 0.30ct at Tiffany? What does she think? See if she says it's a bit small or if she says she'd be happy with it forever. Even though everyone here says get the better stone, if you're ok with it and so is she, then I'd so go to the Tiffany. Every woman is different.
 
Yeah, I got a few mixed signals from the original post, too. Hey, if she wants Tiffany only, and truly doesn''t mind the size of the stone that the budget allows, then yeah, go to Tiffany!

BUUUUT, has she SEEN a .30''ish stone in the T&Co setting? Does she LOVE IT in person? I would definitely check that out first before I did a thing.

Personally, I am a SIZE girl... and I would rather have a larger stone with a less expensive setting. You can always upgrade the SETTING someday down the road, no?
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I guess if it were me, I'd really wait it out and try to get both the size she would want and the real tiffany setting from signedpieces. I kinda can understand not wanting a second hand ring, but they are all repolished and you never know if a new one you'd buy at tiffany's wasn't someone's trade in. there are some nice replica's out there and you could get a bigger stone by not going to tiffany's. I think going and trying them on is really the only way to know. shrinkage can set in for anyone who starts with any size, no way to really prevent that possibility even if you start out with a .5-.60 stone
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oh and there are a few tiffany owners here who bought from tiffany's or signedpieces and have no regrets whatsoever. that is what they had their heart set on and seem to be very happy with their choice.
 
Well, sounds to me like she really does just want the Tiffany, and only the Tiffany. When I got engaged at age 20, I didn''t much care what size the diamond was either, I just wanted this particular style (which I later regretted, but oh well). It was a small diamond. Pretty much everyone else had larger diamonds. Over the years, that did bother me, and actually bothered my husband more. Maybe that''s what''s happening here. You would like to give her the bigger diamond, and it seems logical to do so based on what everyone here has advised, but she wants the Tiffany. Period. Nothing wrong with that. It''s her choice.
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I would suggest that she goes to a Tiffany and tries on a .3 carat ring. That''s the only way she''ll know if that''s what she really wants. Honestly, I don''t think it really matters if you think she''ll regret not getting a bigger diamond. If she swears she doesn''t care about the size, get it for her. She''s the one who will be wearing it for the rest of her life.

Personally, I don''t think the Tiffany setting is best for smaller diamonds. The diamond gets kind of lost in the prongs and the shank looks too thick. Just my opinion, of course, but it might be how she feels once she sees what she''s really going to be getting.

Another thought would be to get her the silver Elsa Peretti band with the small diamond in it and then get her a larger Tiffany solitaire or a great replica later when funds permit. Then she can have a special RHR to wear.

Or you could get her a nice diamond eternity band that she could also use as her wedding band and then she could get a larger diamond solitaire later.
 
I would go with tiffany''s for smaller purchases, but not for a larger solitaire. Or for some of their more unusual designs/designer pieces.

When I was deciding on my anniversary band in 2003 I had the choice to get one custom made exactly like the tiffany one or just get the tiffany one and I could not decided. I let my DH decide for me and he said to just get the tiffany one and that''s what we did.

I don''t regret it at all. I am the owner of a tiffany piece and I wear it proudly and I would not change my mind if I had to do it all over again.
 
Date: 12/7/2007 9:06:24 PM
Author: thing2of2
I would suggest that she goes to a Tiffany and tries on a .3 carat ring. That''s the only way she''ll know if that''s what she really wants. Honestly, I don''t think it really matters if you think she''ll regret not getting a bigger diamond. If she swears she doesn''t care about the size, get it for her. She''s the one who will be wearing it for the rest of her life.

Personally, I don''t think the Tiffany setting is best for smaller diamonds. The diamond gets kind of lost in the prongs and the shank looks too thick. Just my opinion, of course, but it might be how she feels once she sees what she''s really going to be getting.

Another thought would be to get her the silver Elsa Peretti band with the small diamond in it and then get her a larger Tiffany solitaire or a great replica later when funds permit. Then she can have a special RHR to wear.

Or you could get her a nice diamond eternity band that she could also use as her wedding band and then she could get a larger diamond solitaire later.
I agree, to me the proportion of the head and shank just don''t look right with a smaller stone. You need to take her to Tiffany to try on the setting with a .3 carat diamond and see if she still loves it. If she is in love with the Tiffany setting based on seeing pictures of 1+ carat solitaires, she may be surprised how it looks in a smaller size.

On the other hand, IMO the Tiffany Etoile looks beautiful and well-proportioned with a .3-.4 diamond.
 
Date: 12/7/2007 11:06:27 PM
Author: Kay
Date: 12/7/2007 9:06:24 PM

Author: thing2of2

Personally, I don''t think the Tiffany setting is best for smaller diamonds. The diamond gets kind of lost in the prongs and the shank looks too thick. Just my opinion, of course, but it might be how she feels once she sees what she''s really going to be getting.

Or you could get her a nice diamond eternity band that she could also use as her wedding band and then she could get a larger diamond solitaire later.

I agree, to me the proportion of the head and shank just don''t look right with a smaller stone. You need to take her to Tiffany to try on the setting with a .3 carat diamond and see if she still loves it. If she is in love with the Tiffany setting based on seeing pictures of 1+ carat solitaires, she may be surprised how it looks in a smaller size.


Maybe you should check out the 0.18ct Tiffany solitaire at Signed Pieces. It''s retail price is in your price range, so it''s an appx of what you''d be getting at Tiffany. Maybe you should show her the picture?
http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=4406
 
thanks for the replies. I don''t know much about the etoile because I don''t think it has ever really been my gf''s dream setting. I appreciate all of you giving your input. I don''t want to go with the signed pieces ring because I can get more carat weight at tiffany''s- I have called and checked as well as visited (she doesn''t mind a .50 carat in the setting and likes the .30 less, but still likes it better than the other settings we have seen). I can get at least .25-.30 carats there, so why go with an .18? I am actually actively looking for other solitaire settings she might like, but that has been hard! I mean, her number one choice is a mark morrell solitaire but that is not even feasible, while a tiff solitaire is, and I think a tiny stone would look even more lost in a sunburst setting than it would in a tiff. I am more than willing to look at other solitaire settings elsewhere, we are both open minded. I was just hoping to hear whether those who had tiffany engagement rings were satisfied, it seems as if most of you went the other route and are happy with that, lyra you are the only one who seems to have been in a similar situation and you say you regret it. i guess i will continue to search for the perfect platinum solitaire setting for under $1000, if it exists for us, and keep tiff''s on the back burner.
 
ok, neither of you wants to upgrade the stone and with a .3 she may very find herself wishing she could. that''s a risk (and not one i personally would be willing to take). she/you have not indicated you are opposed to upgrading the setting. i know she is stressing over the setting right now and that is where all of this stems from, so i do understand how painfully important it is to her, but.......

could she possibly get the larger diamond now that holds less risk of regret later down the road with a simple setting that could be upgraded to the MARK MORRELL she dreams of when your situation permits?? that is the one scenario i can figure where everyone wins and the drawback is the least of all evils (she just has to do a little waiti... er, anticipating).

i can understand wanting a high quality setting (i pooh''d at my original setting for 5 years as it was poor quality and it drove me nuts, but now i have a setting i LOVE and it was well worth the wait!). i can understand wanting quality over size, and how a tiffany setting would ease concerns about a smaller diamond. BUT since she doesn''t really care about the tiffany name/brand, i think after a short while the novelty of having a high quality setting and small diamond will wear off and with no room for a diamond upgrade.... she could come to resent her ring and the choice she made. maybe not, you know her best, but i could see that happening so i just want to play devil''s advocate.

basically it is not feasible to give her exactly what she wants at this time and no scenario seems quite right thus far. why not see if she can accept this and warm to the idea of having exactly what she wants, if she can just muster up some patience? take her to try on the tiffany .3 and then MAKE HER SIT ON IT for a few days (i.e. don''t buy it on the spot when she gushes and says she loves it). i think most of us will fall head-over-heals at a diamond placed on our finger (no less, a tiffany) but once we''ve had time to get our rational minds back our real emotions settle back in and we make better choices for the long run. go from there....

best of luck! i feel for you, it is a frustrating situation you''re in (and i will keep sending PS fairy dust that you find a setting that solves your woes!
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If there''s any way you can stretch the budget just a little, there is a terrific .45 Tiffany solitaire on SP now for $3350. It retails for $5000.

http://www.signedpieces.com/item.cfm?item_id=7005

Your problem is that platinum is so high, that you are not going to find a quality Tiffany repro setting for under $1000. The WhiteFlash Classic Tiffany Knife edge setting is $775 in 18k white gold. That would allow you about $1200 on a stone. If you went with platinum, you''d be spending more on the setting than the diamond.

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Solitaire/Classic-tiffany-style-Knife-Edge_1137.htm

They have a couple of new diamonds (pictures not posted yet) that might work as well if you need to stay near the $2000 mark. These are ideal cut and Expert Selection ($1300 range), so they will be a little less than this if you pay by wire:

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-540935.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-540934.htm

Or these, if you went with platinum (under $1000):

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-5272.htm#

http://www.whiteflash.com/round_ideal_cut/Round-Ideal-Cut-cut-diamond-540926.htm
 
PS After reading rainydaze's post, I would agree and either get an $1800 stone from WF and temporarily set it in their $200 white gold solitaire setting until you can afford to either change it to the Classic Tiffany platinum setting or the Mark Morrell, OR I would stretch and buy the real Tiffany for $3350.

Oh, and I just remembered that WF has 10% off on settings right now, so you could take 10% off the price of any of their settings.

Here's what you could get if you went with a temp setting (you could get to the .60 range):

http://www.whiteflash.com/diamonds/Compare_Diamonds.aspx?idnos=540886,540878,540873
 
I have a tiffany ring, not their RB solitaire,but the lucida. The tiffany name doesn''t matter to me at all, but it was the only place where I could get the lucida which was the ring I adored and the only ring that my FI fell in love with. I know that I could have gotten a bigger stone for the same price that we paid, but I think that my stone is the biggest size that I would have gone for anyway (I orginally didn''t want to go bigger than a 1ct) plus it''s the ring of my dreams. If your gf really wants a tiffany ring, then get her one. Or as others have suggested, wait until signed pieces gets one in. If she''s not that pushed about it, then get a replica.
 
I think that you should take your GF to Tiffany''s to try on the ring she wants in the size you can afford. Then, let her try on a ring in a size that you could afford if you went with one of the online vendors. If she can, without a doubt, say that she will be happy for the rest of her life with that size, get her the Tiffany.
 
i have a question, i want to buy a ring and i like both round and marquise cuts but which one is better to buy, and which one is shines more? can somebody help to decide.
 
Date: 12/8/2007 2:33:57 PM
Author: ariadna
i have a question, i want to buy a ring and i like both round and marquise cuts but which one is better to buy, and which one is shines more? can somebody help to decide.

hi ariadna and welcome to PS. you are probably better off starting a new thread where folks can address your question directly and so we don''t have to threadjack this one.

p.s round all the way
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atenay- the larger .45 at Signedpieces would be a great find if there is anyway to stretch your budget to get it.
 
Atenay, you are clearly struggling with this process and I feel for you. On one of the threads you started last week about your dilemma, I felt you had moved to a place where you thought your girlfriend''s priorities were:
1) platinum
2) six prong solitaire (ideally Morrell or Tiffany but that your girlfriend liked the high quality replicas)
3) diamond size (being least important)

From another of your threads, we know your girlfriend does not want an antique/used piece, which is perfectly fine. That''s a personal choice and there''s no right or wrong answer.

Based on that, your diamond specs of no lower than SI1 J and your 2000 budget, I found you could get the Excel Supercert platinum ring your girlfriend has said she likes (is this still the case?) and a .51 diamond in your quality range for $1988. Take a look back at that thread. This will get you the setting you said she liked and the diamond size you want.

Otherwise, you could go with the Tiffany .3ish. That''s also a perfectly fine option, if that''s what your girlfriend wants.

While most people here will suggest to go for the bigger rock and dispense with the Tiffany brand (I''m in that camp), your girlfriend isn''t suggesting this and you need to listen to her and not us. In reading your threads, she seems to really like the Tiffany solitaire (along with the Morrell Sunburst).

I, too, was about to get the Tiffany and a .60 but then realized I could get a Mark Morrell Flame and a 1ct from GOG for the same price. I went in that direction and proposed in nyc this weekend.

We also took a trip to Tiffany this weekend in nyc and looked at their solitaires and wedding bands for fun. you know what, even with small diamonds, the knife edge rings look great. you won''t go wrong.

I agree with others - go to Tiffany and have your girlfriend try on solitaires from .20 to .50. She''ll tell you what she wants. If she ends up being stuck on a .50ish, then go call White Flash or Barry at Excel/Supercert. If she''s happier with the Tiffany solitaire at .30 than an Excel or White Flash .50 for the same price, then go with the Tiffany.

As well, when you look at the rings at Tiffany, pay attention to the clarity grade and ask to see them in SI1 and G-H, which is an area you''re comfortable with. It will get you a bigger diamond, as you know, but you might need to keep the sales person focussed as they try to sell you what''s in front of them. Calling ahead and making sure they have those options ready for you in your range might be a good idea.

My sense here is that you''re very close to your decision. Very close. Look forward to seeing what you decide. Be sure to tell us!

Quash
 
my engagement ring is the classic solitaire from tiffany''s. i didn''t pick it out but my now-husband surprised me w/ it.

we went ring shopping 6 months before he actually proposed, and i fell in love w/ the tiffany''s setting. not necessarily the name, but i loved the curved thin prongs that stem from the base. he got into pricescope and researched diamonds for months. he looked into all the replicas he could find, but none of them looked the same. so in the end he went w/ tiffany''s.

he got excellent service from them. he wanted smthg just under 1.5ct b/c of the price hop once you hit 1.5, so the sales guy brought in some from other stores. he got the numbers for all of them and plugged them into HCA, then chose the one he liked the best visually. compared to online sites from pricescope it was about 30-35% markup.

i was very happy w/ the tiffany solitaire and still am. i can''t say i have any regrets b/c i love the ring. and he doesn''t have any regrets about spending more money for it, b/c it made me happy and he wanted to get me the design i wanted.

it''s a very individual decision. if shes LOVES the tiffany setting there really is no replica that comes close, imho. but if she''s more open about it, then you have more leeway!
 
Wow I feel honored that my post about my experience was used as a reference!!

Anyway, I looked at Tiffany''s and ultimately recently purchased my gf''s e-ring there. Do I have regrets? Absolutely not! The ring that I found is absolutely incredible. However, the reason that it is incredible is not because of the Tiffany name, it is because I took the time to educate myself(like everyone else on this forum) and found a firecracker of a diamond for my price range. So with that I am extremely happy with my purchase.



The important thing to remember if you are looking at purchasing a diamond is to do your homework first. This eliminates regret after the purchase has been made. Any jewelry store that you will walk into will supply you with the carat, color, clarity and price. These parameters are what 99% of people base their decision on. What they do not supply you with is the cut proportions of the diamond. This you will have to request off of the gemelogical report, often times with some opposition of the sales person stating that that information is only provided after you purchase the diamond. That is a lie. Do your homework on what cut proportions you are going to be looking for. Here are the ones that I was looking for a round brilliant cut:



Table: 55-59 %
Depth: 59.9 - 62.0%
Crown angle: 34.4-34.9 deg.
Pavillion depth: 42.8-43.2 %

The best thing to do is find a salesperson that is willing to help and hand him those proportions along with size and price range which you are trying to stay within and have him search for stones that meet those requirements. When searching for your diamond, use the HCA tool on this site and purchase an ideal scope if you are going with a round brilliant stone. These two tools together are invaluable. Run each stone that your sales person finds through the HCA prior to going to the store and looking at them. This will give you an idea of which ones are duds. Then use your i-scope ones you go to the store and most importantly use your naked eye in different lighting situations.



My experience at Tiffany''s was fantastic and I would recommend my sales person to others. But whether you go to Tiffany''s or another store, educate yourself beforehand otherwise you are putting your trust in the salesperson''s hands. They are much more willing to go above and beyond if the ball is in your court and you are controlling the process. One thing to consider is if you are only able to purchase a small stone at Tiffany''s, they have an upgrade policy where you can upgrade your stone with a trade in of the purchase price of the old ring as long as the new one is atleast double the old one. Although you may only be able to purchase a small one now, you can always upgrade it at another time.



Good Luck!!

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Date: 12/10/2007 10:56:51 AM
Author: Quash

As well, when you look at the rings at Tiffany, pay attention to the clarity grade and ask to see them in SI1 and G-H, which is an area you''re comfortable with. It will get you a bigger diamond, as you know, but you might need to keep the sales person focussed as they try to sell you what''s in front of them. Calling ahead and making sure they have those options ready for you in your range might be a good idea.


My sense here is that you''re very close to your decision. Very close. Look forward to seeing what you decide. Be sure to tell us!


Quash

Unfortunately they only go down to a VS2 but definitely get them to order one in for you. I also got an I coloured diamond and it''s the whitest thing that you''ve ever seen, so it also might be worth getting them to order in a few I''s for you to look at too.
 
Dude,

Don''t pay over $3000 for a second-hand half carat, even if it''s Tiffany''s. The real deal can be had for less. I know the thought of going to ebay might seem risky to some, but I''ve done it twice and both rings were authentic. Just make sure you get all the boxes and the diamond certificate. If it comes with Retail Replacement Valuation papers, even better since it''s a statement that Tiffany''s has authenticated the ring. Make sure the seller has a high feedback rating and a return policy so you have time to get the ring appraised.

If you''re in the market for a classic solitaire, don''t get anything less than half a carat, as it doesn''t look good against the thin band.

If you get a ring with a thicker band like the Etoile or Lucida, then a smaller diamond (.5 carat or less) might actually look better.

Here are a few auctions I would consider if I were searching for a diamond, and no, I''m not the seller of any of them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tiffany-Co-Diamond-GIA-VVS2-Color-I-5-Platinum-Ring_W0QQitemZ150193559225QQihZ005QQcategoryZ110495QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Tiffany-Company-58-Carat-Engagement-Ring_W0QQitemZ130181375151QQihZ003QQcategoryZ110495QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://www.sylviasantiques.com/vintageplatinumweddingsettiffany-p-853.html


of course if you want Signed Pieces, here''s some 30 pointers for less than $2000.

http://cgi.ebay.com/TIFFANY-CO-Platinum-0-32ct-G-VVS1-Engagement-Ring_W0QQitemZ140186802009QQihZ004QQcategoryZ110495QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/TIFFANY-CO-Platinum-0-32ct-Diamond-Engagement-Ring_W0QQitemZ140186802911QQihZ004QQcategoryZ110495QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And don''t forget Craigslist, too. Best of luck, yo.
 
Hi,

I have a Tiffany Etoile ring that I love and certainly don''t regret getting. I wasn''t set at all on getting a Tiffany''s ring but it was the one I liked best and also the most convenient (we bought it on holiday immediately after my partner proposed, we didn''t look into buying online as it wasn''t something we wanted to do). We didn''t ask to see the certificate before purchasing as we really didn''t know enough about the cut to know if the numbers were good or not, but we have compared the numbers after receiving the certificate and they''re great, they fall into the parameters above and, importantly, it looks good and sparkly! (Incidentally I have since bought a Tiffany diamond pendant which also has great stats on the certificate without having to specifically ask for these stats - Tiffanys is 2 for 2 on good cuts in my very small survey!).

Like others have said, the best way of checking what your girlfriend wants is to try on the Tiffany rings in your budget. Good luck!
 
Don''t buy from ebay. People get scammed there all the time on Tiff stuff. I had a friend buy a 2k watch from ebay for 850. Had it for 2 year, took it in for regular cleaning and stuff. About 2.5 years after he got it, the Tiffanys he visited regularly asked him if he could bring in his paperwork on the watch when he came to pick it up. He brought the paperwork that the ebay seller had sent him and come to find out it was a fake. Seriously, ebay is the last place I would buy any high dollar designer item from.

That .45 ct is a steal, and you would know it is legit.
 
Yeah I agree-way too many fakes on ebay and they have the fake papers to match it. I would definitely go to signed pieces instead.
 
I'm pretty sure Atenay's gf has definitely given a firm thumbs down on used rings, Signed Pieces, Ebay or otherwise. I believe he mentioned this in one of his previous threads. Boy, given all the evidence about fake Tiffany rings on Ebay, I'm surprised that idea would even be floated. That said, Atenay, whatever your choice, an appraisal from an independent appraiser will probably give you some solid piece of mind.
 
Oh, to answer your initial question I bought a .84 ct Tiffs RB channel set and my FIANCE loves it. plus she was expecting it to come from a less expensive route and is now absolutely blown away by it. She was literally in shock when she saw the blue box.

However, being the size you are considering, having her try in on first would be important. My girl wasn''t a size hound, so it not being HUGE was never a concern. But a .3 is something she would need to see.
 
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