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diamonds CONSTANTLY coming loose and rattling - HELP

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diamondtifff

Shiny_Rock
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Aug 2, 2006
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135
Hello! I was hoping to get a few opinions on the situation I am having with my ring. Without having to write a book, My ring - all 3 diamonds will not stay tight. I have sent it off - this will be the FOURTH time. I have had numerous problems with it- The lady who made it and keeps fixing it and when she sends it back its tight. for about a month. then they are VERY loose! It seems to happen after I put it in the ultrasonic with heat, then finish it off with the steamer- then I barely shake it and the stones rattle loudly. Now, if I place it in ammonia and water and let it soak for awhile, and then shake it, it is tight! I do not understand this at all. Then two days may go by and its loose again. The center head is 18 kt gold and the metal holding the trillions and the shank are platinum-- Has this ever happened to anyone- any thoughts, suggestions, or I am just being crazy!
 

avlis

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
237
as an experiment, you may try putting it in a glass of warm water and see if it loosens, then put it in a glass of cold water and see if it becomes tight again. this would atleast identify the cuplrit as thermal expansion and contraction of the metal. although i havent seen any posts about people having this problem before.
 

TheDoctor

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
371
The entire setting is obviously far too flexible. The stones loosening is not your fault. This problem is chronic, and needs to be addressed in a different manner than what has been already done.
You may need the stones to be reset in a completely new mount, or removed and re-set with more attention paid to how the metal is shaped to match each stones profile.
Is it a lightweight mounting? If so, the tensile strength of the metal is at fault, and cannot be repaired to anyone''s satisfaction. You will have to go with something a little more stable.
 

diamondtifff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
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135
Date: 4/8/2007 2:34:37 PM
Author: TheDoctor
The entire setting is obviously far too flexible. The stones loosening is not your fault. This problem is chronic, and needs to be addressed in a different manner than what has been already done.
You may need the stones to be reset in a completely new mount, or removed and re-set with more attention paid to how the metal is shaped to match each stones profile.
Is it a lightweight mounting? If so, the tensile strength of the metal is at fault, and cannot be repaired to anyone''s satisfaction. You will have to go with something a little more stable.
I wouldn''t say the mounting is lightweight- Its around 13 grams- But I have had heavier mountings withthicker prongs before- I woudl say this is one of the lighter ones though.....- Here is what they want to do next and the whole thing just dosen''t set well with me......They want to use the laser welder to replace the prongs on the center stone with thicker ones, change them to 14 karat and plate it with 22 kt gold (the center is a fancy yellow). then they have no idea what is going on with the trillions- So it sounds like to me the head will be half 18 kt and half 14? Is that normal or acceptable??

Oh...and what is the deal with thermal expansion? Because actually I have done that- After its been its in warm water I take it out and it rattles- then if I put it inthe cold ammonia it is tight Its just driving me CRAZY!! The ring that Im talking about is actually my avatar-
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,744

Have it checked out by an independent. There are some common craftsmanship problems that have this as the most apparent symptom. The root of the issue is the shape of the notch in the prong that holds the edge or point of the stone. If it’s not fitted properly to the stone or it''s cut too far into the prong it can come lose quite easily. Pushing down the tip will mask the symptom but it doesn’t really address the problem. The repair for this is repronging with a laser welder as described but if the setter makes the same mistake again when they cut the seats, it will have the same problem.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

diamondtifff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
135
Date: 4/8/2007 3:20:05 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Have it checked out by an independent. There are some common craftsmanship problems that have this as the most apparent symptom. The root of the issue is the shape of the notch in the prong that holds the edge or point of the stone. If it’s not fitted properly to the stone or it''s cut too far into the prong it can come lose quite easily. Pushing down the tip will mask the symptom but it doesn’t really address the problem. The repair for this is repronging with a laser welder as described but if the setter makes the same mistake again when they cut the seats, it will have the same problem.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
Thats what I was thinking...that the seats were cut incorrectly..........Because I have had the prongs tightened so many times I cant even count! I am sorry to ask so many questions....but getting other perspectives on this problem is most helpful!!!! Do you think putting all new prongs with the laser will correct it or should we scrap the mounting entirely and just do a new wax/mounting? And do you think changing it to 14 kt instead of 18 will make it less likely to do this? Actually its been the platinum prongs around the trillions that have given me the most trouble- I just feel with what I paid for this mounting it should not be doing this........
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
8,744

Replacing the prongs should fix the problem, IF the problem is in the seats and IF the new seats are cut properly in the new prongs. Changing from 18k to 14k shouldn’t be necessary. Depending on how the gallery below the prongs is constructed, welding on new prongs with a laser may actually be significantly better than casting them. Again I suggest that it’s worth your trouble to hire a professional to inspect the piece and give an independent assessment of what is wrong. The jeweler obviously is having difficult identifying the problem or it would have been repaired the first time. An experienced and uninvolved set of eyes may very be helpful for both of you.


Whether you or the jeweler should pay the bill depends on what the terms of sale were in the first place. Some jewelers have craftsmanship warranties and some don’t. The issue of deciding exactly what is wrong and what is the appropriate approach to fixing it strikes me as a more immediate issue.

Have you showed it to anyone other than the original jeweler to discuss the repair prospects? A special note about this: If you go to a competitive jeweler, be aware that you are entering a touchy situation. Some jewelers will disparage someone elses work at every opportunity because they think it makes them look good and are happy to slam the other guys no matter how minor the issue is. Some will never say anything bad about anyone else under the premise that it's impolite competition and their mothers taught them better manners than that. Some just don't know what they are doing but won't admit it because they don't want to look stupid. Choose your expert carefully. If you can, find an independent appraiser with bench experience.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Aug 15, 2000
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15,141
Thx Pyramid

DT a sk them to add two yellow gold strut across the base of the setting (down your finger and actually sitting on your finger) like the yellow bar that runs across the base of your yellow diamond setting.

This will stop the setting flexing when you pick up heavy things.
 

diamondtifff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
135
Date: 4/8/2007 7:46:22 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Thx Pyramid

DT a sk them to add two yellow gold strut across the base of the setting (down your finger and actually sitting on your finger) like the yellow bar that runs across the base of your yellow diamond setting.

This will stop the setting flexing when you pick up heavy things.
Do you mean adding a bar on the basket head (on the underside) right below where the culet is? Would picking up heavy things cause this problem?? I never thought of that-
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,141
Yes and yes
the last of the images Pyramid psoted a link to shows there is no lower under bezel to be seen thru the under side of the trilliants.

There should be, and so the whole setting will flex when you pput pressure on it.
The stones need not even come out to do this, but let the jeweller know you do not expect the very best joins ever - so any jeweller capable of doing a resize could easily do this work.

A smart worker would just cut away the two big prongs at the base and solder bars right thru
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
has it been catching on clothes?
it looks like the main stone prongs are pretty high above the stone also.
 

diamondtifff

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 2, 2006
Messages
135
Date: 4/8/2007 11:42:48 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Yes and yes
the last of the images Pyramid psoted a link to shows there is no lower under bezel to be seen thru the under side of the trilliants.

There should be, and so the whole setting will flex when you pput pressure on it.
The stones need not even come out to do this, but let the jeweller know you do not expect the very best joins ever - so any jeweller capable of doing a resize could easily do this work.

A smart worker would just cut away the two big prongs at the base and solder bars right thru
Sorry to ask so many questions...I am sending it off today and want to completely clear on everything- I am a bit hazy on the description of the "no lower under bezel"- do you mean putting a bar like the one you described with the center head on the underside ofthe trillions or a support in the gallery under the trillions........
 
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