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DIAMOND RECOMMENDATION-HCA

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Hi everyone,
Looking to get opinions on which stone below is better in your opinion! I know both don’t have an HCA score below 2 and one of the stones have a depth of 63.3 which is too deep but both diamonds are GIA Triple Excellence and a great deal. Could you please let me know which is better in your opinion? I’ve attached photos of the GIA certificates as well. Both diamonds I’ve seen and are eye clean! Thanks in advance for your opinions!

STONE 1
Round 1.5 carat
HCA Score- 3.5
7.27x7.3 x 4.55
Table- 58
Depth- 62.5
Crown angle- 35.5
Pavilion 40.1

STONE 2
Round- 1.5 carat
7.25x7.29x46
HCA 3.1
Table- 55
Depth- 63.3
Crown-36
Pavilion-40.8
3A3F3ECD-82E9-460B-AB49-99320170BB85.png
 

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Last edited:

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,632
Do you have information about the angles (GIA/AGS certificates), etc?

In general I wouln't recommend stones that score over 2 on the HCA or anything over 62.5% depth. But happy to take a look at certs to give you more info
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Do you have information about the angles (GIA/AGS certificates), etc?

In general I wouln't recommend stones that score over 2 on the HCA or anything over 62.5% depth. But happy to take a look at certs to give you more info
Hi there. I’ve attached both certifications. know everyone on here wants to see perfect numbers but in all honestly, I’m getting a smokin deal on either of these stones which is why I’m trying to be flexible. This is an upgrade for me so either of these diamonds are already a huge improvement from my current stone. Just want to know if one is better than the other for any reason or which you would choose if you had to. Thanks! Also, I forgot to mention above, this is a 1.5 carat. Thanks :)
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,632
Hi there. I’ve attached both certifications. know everyone on here wants to see perfect numbers but in all honestly, I’m getting a smokin deal on either of these stones which is why I’m trying to be flexible. This is an upgrade for me so either of these diamonds are already a huge improvement from my current stone. Just want to know if one is better than the other for any reason or which you would choose if you had to. Thanks! Also, I forgot to mention above, this is a 1.5 carat. Thanks :)
I get it. I think most on here would argue that you could find a better cut GIA XXX, but if you are locked into an ugrade policy then it might not be possible.

Not really sure which to say I prefer, especially without any advanced images or pictures of each stone.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
6,867
Hi everyone,
Looking to get opinions on which stone below is better in your opinion! I know both don’t have an HCA score below 2 and one of the stones have a depth of 63.3 which is too deep but both diamonds are GIA Triple Excellence and a great deal. Could you please let me know which is better in your opinion? I’ve attached photos of the GIA certificates as well. Both diamonds I’ve seen and are eye clean! Thanks in advance for your opinions!

STONE 1
Round 1.5 carat
HCA Score- 3.5
7.27x7.3 x 4.55
Table- 58
Depth- 62.5
Crown angle- 35.5
Pavilion 40.1

STONE 2
Round- 1.5 carat
7.25x7.29x46
HCA 3.1
Table- 55
Depth- 63.3
Crown-36
Pavilion-40.8
3A3F3ECD-82E9-460B-AB49-99320170BB85.png
Have you created a duplicate account to ask exactly the same question as on this existing and active thread under a different user name?

STONE 1
HCA- 3.1
Round- 1.5 carat
7.25x7.29x4.6
Table- 55
Depth- 63.3
Crown-36
Pavilion-40.8

STONE 2
Round 1.5 carat
HCA Score- 3.5
7.27x7.3 x 4.55
Table- 58
Depth- 62.5
Crown angle- 35.5
Pavilion 40.1
Duplicate accounts are not permitted on PS (unless in exceptional circumstances - ref: the recent stalking advice thread).
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Sorry, I can delete one of the accounts. Thank you for your input earlier on the two diamonds.
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Sorry, I can delete one of the accounts. Thank you for your input earlier on the two diamonds.
Actually, if you could let me know how to delete my duplicate account that would be appreciated. I went into my account and couldn’t figure out how to deactivate. Thank you!
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,385
I don't want to be difficult or make your choice harder than it already is, but I feel I have to ask if you are aware how the cut proportions not only affect the "sparkle" of the diamond, but also the size?

For instance I see both these stones are being advertised as 1.50 carats. And both stones have a spread measurement of roughly 7.25 x 7.30mm.

A stone that has ideal proportions for maximum light return will measure out at this size at roughly the 1.4 carat mark.


In comparison, a 1.5 carat stone with ideal proportions will measure out close to 7.4mm.


To add another layer of complexity, you are teter totering on the 1.5 carat mark. This particular size is known as a "magic weight" and consequently you will see prices push up once it hits that magic 1.5 carat size.

Don't believe me? Let's look at this example:

1.446ct I SI1 @ $9,434 wire = $9,434 / 1.446 carats = $6,524.20 per carat
1.543ct I SI1 @ $10,992 wire = $10,992 / 1.543 carats = $7,123.78 per carat

The 1.446 stone is from the first link I shared. The 1.543 stone is 3rd stone that I haven't introduced yet. I am using it because it's the same color and clarity as the 1.446 stone.


Sadly, diamonds are sold based on carat weight so you have many stones being cut for maximum weight (profit), instead of maximum beauty. In the case of the two stones you are looking at, this extra weight also pushes you into a magic carat weight price premium.

The above being said, would you consider a 1.4 carat stone if it was better cut and still had a spread of nearly the same? If so it may help your budget and get you more sparkle.

Below is a graphic that explains how carat weights and proportions affect size/spread.


1578137229764.png
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,385
Also, you mentioned a "smoking deal".

Can you share details? Meaning what price for each stone, and what are the exact carat weights, color and clarity? Maybe we can confirm your smoking deal, or provide you some GIA numbers of alternate stones that this dealer may be able to purchase and work with you on.

From your other user name post, I understand you have some local dealers offering you about $500 or so more trade money on your existing stone, which is why you'd prefer to use them. This makes sense, but only if the NEW stone is priced accordingly.

You see this tactic in car sales all the time. On paper, the car dealer offers you more trade money on your existing vehicle to make you feel better and want to buy from him. Let's say he gives you $1,000 extra. To offset the difference, he adds $1,000 (or more, in the case of slimy dealers) to the asking price of the new vehicle. The net effect is the same.

Dealer A:
$11,000 new car - $5,000 trade in = $6,000 purchase price

Dealer B:
$10,000 new car - $4,000 trade-in = $6,000 purchase price
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Hello,
Thanks for the info above- yes, I am aware of everything you said above. I’m not working with big B&M shops, I’m working with small mom and pop places so I honestly feel like I’m getting a pretty good deal. I’m in the Los Angeles area and they seem to be giving me a better deal than any other store I have visited (Sadly many).
I deleted my other thread but you might have read something incorrectly, the local stores I am working with are giving me $3500 or $3000 for my trade-in stone (not $500). My current stone is a GIA 1.02 round, I color, VG-VG-VG, faint florescence but the measurements are all over the place. These two trade-in values are better than anywhere else I’ve checked (online vendors are offering $2000-2800 after they see the ring).
I’m absolutely fine with considering a smaller stone (1.4 carat), if the spread is better and the dimensions are similar. I honestly wouldn’t want to go smaller.
In response to your question about “smoking deal,” part of that is simply the fact I’m getting a lot for my trade-in at these two particular stores so I can put a little more towards a diamond.
Here are the two stones I’m considering at 2 different local stores.

Stone #1

TOTAL out of pocket cost after my trade in is $6750. That includes everything (tax, labor)
1.5 carat round GIA
Color- F
SI2- EYE CLEAN (I’ve seen it in person)
Triple excellence
No florescence
Table-55
Depth 63.3 (Yes I know, it’s too steep)
Crown-36
Pavilion- 40.8
Girdle-3.5%
No culet
HCA- 3.1

Stone #2
Total out of pocket $7300
1.5 carat round GIA
G color
SI2- EYE CLEAN
Triple Excellence
No Florescence
Table- 58
Depth- 61.5
Crown- 35.5
Pavilion-41
Girdle-4%
no culet
HCA- 3.5

Again, I know these stones aren’t perfect but I thought I was getting a pretty good deal so I’m trying to be flexible since I have a strict budget. Would love to get your opinion if someone was twisting your arm which diamond you would choose? Diamond 1 or 2.
Although, I’d still love suggestions on other stones and their GIA number that I can present to the jeweler and see if they can purchase them and for what price.
I definitely don’t want to go smaller than 1.4. In a perfect world I’d be buying a 1.7 but it’s not in my budget. I’m really trying to stay around $7K out of pocket with my trade-in.
Any help would be appreciated on new stones but I’d still appreciate your input on the two stones above.

Thanks in advance,

Deena
 
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Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
30,802
Hi there. I’ve attached both certifications. know everyone on here wants to see perfect numbers but in all honestly, I’m getting a smokin deal on either of these stones which is why I’m trying to be flexible.
Not a good deal if the stones are cut too deep. ;))
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Not a good deal if the stones are cut too deep. ;))
Hi there,
So what do you think about the other stone then? One of the stones depth is 62.5%. I know it’s better to stay under 62% but I’ve read stones can still be brilliant as long as it’s under 62.6%.

Thanks,
Deena
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
141
@DTraina I think Sledge is saying that there's $500 difference between the trade-in offers you're getting, not $500 total. $500 more trade-in is only a good deal if the price for the new stone is great....i.e. if it's $500 overpriced you're no better off.

I'm not an expert (by any means!), but I think it'll be hard for anyone to give you a steer on which of your two stones is better. They're similarly not great proportions, so if you're set on getting one of them you probably need to see them both next to each other if that's possible, to see which you like best.
 
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DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
@DTraina I think Sledge is saying that there's $500 difference between the trade-in offers you're getting, not $500 total. $500 more trade-in is only a good deal if the price for the new stone is great....i.e. if it's $500 overpriced you're no better off.

I'm not an expert (by any means!), but I think it'll be hard for anyone to give you a steer on which of your two stones is better. They're similarly not great proportions, so if you're set on getting one of them you probably need to see them both next to each other if that's possible, to see which you like best.
Hello,
Thanks for the clarification- I definitely didn’t catch that on Sledge’s response. Yes unfortunately, since the stones are from different stores I wouldn’t be able to see both next to each other. Im not set on these two stones... I just haven’t found anything in local stores that can beat this price. Most of the other shops are charging 2K more for SIMILAR stones. Once I’m finding those perfect stones with perfect dimensions, they are costing me 10-11K! Just not in my budget which is 7K out of pocket.
I’m definitely open to getting suggestions of other GIA stones from anyone on this site though and seeing if either of the jewelers can purchase them.
My concern from buying online (JA or Blue Nile) is since they won’t purchase my stone, I’d have to sell it separately online and will receive much less than local stores are giving me. I’m starting to feel stumped on what to do!

Thank you for your input,

Deena
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
141
I have to caveat every response with a reminder that I'm a new member of the site with very limited experience, but I think the 41/35.5 and 58% table might perform better than the 40.8/36 with a 55% table. Both may look slightly small for their weight.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
4,385
I'm tight on time and will comment more later but a few things....


1. Correct, I thought there was a $500 trade difference....not $500 total. Based on your last statements it appears the local shops are about $1,000 better than online offers.

2. It's not just depth we are struggling to recommend. That is one of the elements but I'm looking at the crown/pavilion relationship as well as how the table and depth play with it.

3. With new info I will see if there is anything I think worth recommending. I can't predict what your local guys will do. Most dealers buy from a list. I assume these guys are the same. So if we find a virtual inventory stone, they may have access to it.
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
@sledge
Thanks for the response. Yes, I’m unsure if they would have access to whatever diamond we might find but worth taking a look. I’m open to looking at AGS stones as well as GIA....I think when I first started my search months ago I was only looking at GIA but seems like most people on this site really stand by AGS as well.
For budget reasons, I was trying to stick with an SI2 or SI1- eye clean. G color (or better), no florescence or faint. If I found the perfect stone online, I could go back to trying to sell my stone online... I just need to factor in the trade-in value. Again, I’ve been quoted as high as $2800 although the vendors still want to see my stone in person first. To play it safe, I’d probably get $2500 online.
Any help would be appreciated! Thanks :)
Deena
 
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flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,129
$7310 Deep cut, eye-clean G SI2 GIA xxx. No fluo. Comparable to #2 G SI2

#2 1.5c G SI2 is $7300 + your own 1.02 I.

Yeap, it is a smoking deal for the jeweller. He gets your diamond for free.
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
$7310 Deep cut, eye-clean G SI2 GIA xxx. No fluo. Comparable to #2 G SI2

#2 1.5c G SI2 is $7300 + your own 1.02 I.

Yeap, it is a smoking deal for the jeweller. He gets your diamond for free.
Hmmm, maybe I should consider selling and buying online again. Well, any help with finding a stone would be appreciated.
what are the best sites that people try and sell their diamonds on? I’ve had quotes from Diamond Lighhouse ($2500-2800) and Abe Mor ($2200-2500).
Thanks,
Deena
 

mission1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 17, 2019
Messages
141
You could take either of those ranges, buy the example listed by flyingpig and still be $2200-$2800 better off than going to the jeweller, with a better cut diamond too.

There’s a classified section on this forum, plus loupe troupe.
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
I’ve actually inquired about the first diamond you posted from JA (1.51 carat) so I have the GIA cert still. i passed on this diamomd immediately because the cert notes say that the “diamonds clarity grade is based on clouds not shown” which is a deal breaker for me. I’ll inquire about the second stone from JA now...
 

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DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
Attached is the AGS report for the 1.52carat from JA. I’m not sure how to read AGS reports so I’d love to get some feedback about this stone. How would I know if it’s eye clean? I actually asked the customer service lady on their website and she responded, “There’s no way to tell if an SI2 will be clean.” I assumed I would be able to find this information out before making any sort of purchase but I guess not.
Also, from the little I’ve read, I thought a good AGS stone should have a rating of 0. This one is rated as a 1. Is that bad?
Another thing I have to factor in besides the cost of the stone is tax plus getting the diamond set locally. I’m in CA and tax is 9.5%. Tax on the stone above is $785. In order to stay in budget, I probably do need to receive $2000+ for my stone.
 

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lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,632
I strongly recommend looking at alternatives. These jewelers aren't giving you a good deal at all.
 

lovedogs

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 31, 2014
Messages
9,632
Attached is the AGS report for the 1.52carat from JA. I’m not sure how to read AGS reports so I’d love to get some feedback about this stone. How would I know if it’s eye clean? I actually asked the customer service lady on their website and she responded, “There’s no way to tell if an SI2 will be clean.” I assumed I would be able to find this information out before making any sort of purchase but I guess not.
Also, from the little I’ve read, I thought a good AGS stone should have a rating of 0. This one is rated as a 1. Is that bad?
Another thing I have to factor in besides the cost of the stone is tax plus getting the ring set. I’m in CA and tax is 9.5%. Tax on the stone above is $785. In order to stay in budget, I probably do need to receive $2000+ for my stone.
I don't see anything attached
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,129
The first stone definitely looks cloudy; no report is needed. I am not recommending that one. It put the link to show you what a deep cut GIA xxx G SI2 costs online.

The second one is more serious recommendation. The proportions are good. It is AGS 1, because it is graded based on the proportions just like GIA Ex, not based on computer scan and light performance. How do you know it is eye clean? You will have to see it in person. At least, the inclusions are feathers and clear crystals on the edge of table and on the crown, not in the middle. Some are prong-able. It is a good SI2 in my book. I do not know if this is eye-clean enough for you in real life.

One more thing is that the report is from 2015. I think it was once sold and turned in for upgrade. This may or may not matter to you.

Finding a well performing eye-clean Si2 is not easy. There are not many of them, therefore, it takes time.
 

DTraina

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
23
The first stone definitely looks cloudy; no report is needed. I am not recommending that one. It put the link to show you what a deep cut GIA xxx G SI2 costs online.

The second one is more serious recommendation. The proportions are good. It is AGS 1, because it is graded based on the proportions just like GIA Ex, not based on computer scan and light performance. How do you know it is eye clean? You will have to see it in person. At least, the inclusions are feathers and clear crystals on the edge of table and on the crown, not in the middle. Some are prong-able. It is a good SI2 in my book. I do not know if this is eye-clean enough for you in real life.

One more thing is that the report is from 2015. I think it was once sold and turned in for upgrade. This may or may not matter to you.

Finding a well performing eye-clean Si2 is not easy. There are not many of them, therefore, it takes time.
Is it possible for you to run the HCA on this diamond for me? Also, you’re saying I need to see it in person. I’m assuming this means I need to Purchase the stone, yes? Any idea if JA has a return policy if I don’t like the stone?
Thanks!
Deena
 

chamois

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jul 15, 2008
Messages
394
It might be worth asking HPD (High Performance Diamonds) or Whiteflash if they would consider taking your diamond as a trade in.

I traded my diamond with HPD which was originally purchased at a store.

Nothing to lose by asking.
 
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