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Diamond question (HA and not)

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awenuts

Rough_Rock
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Sep 18, 2007
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Prior to searching throgh this site and forum I had never heard of Heart & Arrows in a diamond. What I don''t completely understand is this: If you have a well cut diamond with excellent symetry will it always be HA? Or is HA just a style of cut that certain prefer over non-HA diamonds? Say you have two diamonds at a jewelry store both are the same price,size,color,clarity etc except one is HA, would you be foolish to buy the non-HA?

Reading through the forums many people prefer HA diamonds. Is there any correlation between what a RB scores on the HCA and it being a HA or not? If you have a diamond that scores a 0.6 on the HCA, what are the chances that it is a HA? Is it possible to have a diamond that is not HA but passes the i-scope with very little leakage? Sorry I have so many questions, but I am trying to figure out what and what not to buy. Thanks in advance for your help!!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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58,547
No, not all ideal cut diamonds are hearts and arrows. That designation is made for the most precisely cut diamonds. That said, we see beautiful arrow patterns on stones posted here all the time. Near hearts and arrows ideal cut stones can be just as beautiful to look at. Some of us around here just choose the perfection of a true H&A stone so we don''t have regrets later! But my opinion is if two diamonds were equal in every way except one was H&A and the other wasn''t, I''d probably take the H&A because that usually adds a little value to the stone.

One of the experts will have to answer your idealscope question.
 

Shay37

Ideal_Rock
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Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts
Prior to searching throgh this site and forum I had never heard of Heart & Arrows in a diamond. What I don''t completely understand is this: If you have a well cut diamond with excellent symetry will it always be HA? NO

Or is HA just a style of cut that certain prefer over non-HA diamonds? YES

Say you have two diamonds at a jewelry store both are the same price,size,color,clarity etc except one is HA, would you be foolish to buy the non-HA? Only if you prefer H&A.
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Reading through the forums many people prefer HA diamonds. Is there any correlation between what a RB scores on the HCA and it being a HA or not? If you have a diamond that scores a 0.6 on the HCA, what are the chances that it is a HA? Is it possible to have a diamond that is not HA but passes the i-scope with very little leakage? YES

Sorry I have so many questions, but I am trying to figure out what and what not to buy. Thanks in advance for your help!!
H&A is a type of cutting for a type of optical symmetry. It is pleasing to the eye for some people. Other people will prefer more chaotic designs (random) chaotic might not sound nice, and I don''t mean anything negative by it. Just more of a random pattern.

Answer me this: Are you the type of person who cannot stand to see a pic crooked by so much as 1/16th of an inch without feeling the need to straighten it? Can you see crookedness in that small an increment? Does an orderly desk or work space make you happy? Does everything need to be in it''s place for you to feel happy? If you answered yes to one or more of these, you might need an H&A.
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shay
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
Messages
10,285
if i had a penny....
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i''ll give some brief answers here but there are many (many many many) threads on this subject that you can search as well. these questions have been asked a few times before
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(if i had a penny!)


Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts

What I don''t completely understand is this: If you have a well cut diamond with excellent symetry will it always be HA?
no. optical symmetry (hearts and arrows) is not the same as the lab graded symmetry that you see listed on the reports under ''symmetry''. a lab graded diamond with an excellent (or even ideal) symmetry grade does not mean the diamond is h&a. you would need to view the diamond through a special viewer to know whether or not it is h&a.

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts\

Or is HA just a style of cut that certain prefer over non-HA diamonds?
h&a is a by-product of precision cutting wherein the facets are all aligned (instead of the random faceting of non h&a''s). yes, some definitely prefer h&a over non h&a.

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts

Say you have two diamonds at a jewelry store both are the same price,size,color,clarity etc except one is HA, would you be foolish to buy the non-HA?
you would be foolish to not buy the one that looks best to you, no matter what the label is.

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts\

Reading through the forums many people prefer HA diamonds. Is there any correlation between what a RB scores on the HCA and it being a HA or not?
no. the hca scores diamonds on the combination of angles not on symmetry. symmetry has to be SEEN.

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts

If you have a diamond that scores a 0.6 on the HCA, what are the chances that it is a HA?
i don''t know what the statistics would be. it would really depend on where you were getting the diamond from.

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts

Is it possible to have a diamond that is not HA but passes the i-scope with very little leakage?
sure. leakage depends on the crown and pavilion angle combination not just the alignment of the facets (h&a)

Date: 9/20/2007 6:18:21 PM
Author:awenuts

Sorry I have so many questions, but I am trying to figure out what and what not to buy. Thanks in advance for your help!!
no problem, that''s what we''re here for!
 

awenuts

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
20
Shay37: LOL I find your comparison VERY FUNNY!

A couple weeks ago I was helping my gf move into her apartment and I hung some pictures on her wall. Thre pictures right next to each other but a couple inches apart. Well I had my tape measure and I calculated everything precisely, but when I hung them the middle one appeared to be up a little higher. I measured from the ceiling down to the top of the frame and it was off by a little less than an 1/8" and it was annoying the heck out of me. My gf kept telling me it was fine and that nobody would ever notice. My response was that if it was a 1/16" it wouldn't bother me. So I tinkered with it until it was about 1/16" off.

So does that make me the HA type?
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I am basically looking for a beautiful diamond. I am looking at Tiffany's(yes it has to be from there) and I know I probably will not find an HA stone there. However, although it may not be possible to find an HA stone there, I would like to find the best cut stone for the price I am paying. I am just trying to learn how I can differentiate between a better and lesser cut at Tiffany's.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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10,285
Date: 9/20/2007 6:49:11 PM
Author: awenuts
LOL I find your comparison VERY FUNNY:

A couple weeks ago I was helping my gf move into her apartment and I hung some pictures on her wall. Thre pictures right next to each other but a couple inches apart. Well I had my tape measure and I calculated everything precisely, but when I hung them the middle one appeared to be up a little higher. I measured from the ceiling down to the top of the frame and it was off by a little less than an 1/8'' and it was annoying the heck out of me. My gf kept telling me it was fine and that nobody would ever notice. My response was that if it was a 1/16'' it wouldn''t bother me. So I tinkered with it until it was about 1/16'' off.

So does that make me the HA type?
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you are DEFINITELY the h&a type!
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Date: 9/20/2007 6:49:11 PM
Author: awenuts

I am basically looking for a beautiful diamond. I am looking at Tiffany''s(yes it has to be from there) and I know I probably will not find an HA stone there. However, although it may not be possible to find an HA stone there,
actually, you might. tiffany''s has some nice rocks! (they just happen to come with a nice price too!)

Date: 9/20/2007 6:49:11 PM
Author: awenuts

I would like to find the best cut stone for the price I am paying. I am just trying to learn how I can differentiate between a better and lesser cut at Tiffany''s.
get an idealscope. www.ideal-scope.com

you''ll feel better about your purchase.
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Shay37

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
3,343
Date: 9/20/2007 6:49:11 PM
Author: awenuts
Shay37: LOL I find your comparison VERY FUNNY!

A couple weeks ago I was helping my gf move into her apartment and I hung some pictures on her wall. Thre pictures right next to each other but a couple inches apart. Well I had my tape measure and I calculated everything precisely, but when I hung them the middle one appeared to be up a little higher. I measured from the ceiling down to the top of the frame and it was off by a little less than an 1/8'' and it was annoying the heck out of me. My gf kept telling me it was fine and that nobody would ever notice. My response was that if it was a 1/16'' it wouldn''t bother me. So I tinkered with it until it was about 1/16'' off.

So does that make me the HA type?
19.gif


I am basically looking for a beautiful diamond. I am looking at Tiffany''s(yes it has to be from there) and I know I probably will not find an HA stone there. However, although it may not be possible to find an HA stone there, I would like to find the best cut stone for the price I am paying. I am just trying to learn how I can differentiate between a better and lesser cut at Tiffany''s.
I''m afraid you''re done for my friend.
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shay
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2007
Messages
1,236
Ideal symmetery will face up with the same symmetrical appearance as a HandA

therefore if you want that clean organized look face up Ideal cut diamonds would look, face up, the same (otherwise you could deduce the presence of hearts via face up symmetry, the fact that you cant means that there is no visual symmetrical difference face up, and therefor an ideal symmetry would look no more chaotic than HandA), though whether it has any appreciable affects on light performance are not proven at the moment. Though it does stand to reason that there would be some, exactly what and how appreciable it is hasn't been defined.

so, while this is not going to be a case of you being bothered where others wouldn't be, because the alignment of those particular facets is simply not visible face up--it does sound like you are the type of person that would really enjoy the perfection of HandA:) I don't mind it one bit myself:)
 

awenuts

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
20
Yes I was definitely going to purchase one. Is the beginner one sufficient? If I am looking at set stones will I need the light or will any light source suffice?
 

Green with Envy

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
970
I really would suggest going to look at a variety of diamond cuts in different types of lighting (hopefully not just jewelry store brights) because even though most people on PS seem to prefer h&A- there are other rounds out there that are equally beautiful!! You should check out some of the video comparisons of different rounds at goodoldgold.com
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
18,422
Just to add because I think it has not been said - H&A''s can come in HCA 3.5 leaky stones too.

H&A''s is only about symmetry that is beyond what the human eye can see (opinion) or benefit from.
 
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