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diamond144

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2025
Messages
28
hello
I wanted to ask what you think about this stone.. (Round brilliant)

0.70 / D / IF / 3EX / NON / GIA
- Table 57%
- Depth 62.8%
- Crown angle 35%
- Pavilion angle 41.2%
- Girdle Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
- Culet None

I'm a little afraid of the depth of the diamond 62.8%
Will this stone give good light performance?
thanks!
 
Last edited:
This is a steep/deep diamond. The crown angle of 35 degrees is fine but isn't well balanced out by the 41.2 degree pavilion.

An F-G-H is very white in this size range and basically all VS2s and many SI1s will be eye-clean with no impact on sparkle. It's the cut quality that makes a diamond sparkle and look bright, not the color or the clarity. If you're looking for the best of the best, which is what it seems like you are with a D/IF, you should consider a "super ideal" cut in an F-G, VS1-VS2.

Here's a video comparing a super ideal to a crummy GIA 3EX:

Here's another video showing why it's the cut quality that matters for a diamond to look bright, not the color:
 
thanks for the reply.
I will look for another stone even if I have to lower the level of clarity..
Would you recommend me to take a bigger stone with VS1?
 
diamond144 said:
thanks for the reply.
I will look for another stone even if I have to lower the level of clarity..
Would you recommend me to take a bigger stone with VS1?
Click to expand...

Yes. Have you seen any diamonds in person? Do you know how you'll be setting this? Is it for you or is it a gift? What is your total budget for the completed piece? Are you in the US or another country?

Another question in this price range is lab or natural. For the same price as this diamond, you could get a high-quality lab diamond in any size you want that would be indistinguishable from a natural to the naked eye. However, that only works if the wearer wants a lab diamond and obviously it's totally fine to prefer natural, I just want to make sure that you know lab is potentially an option.

You also have the choice to work with a local jeweler or with someone remotely. Most members here choose the latter because the local jewelers don't offer the same quality, knowledge, trustworthiness, upgrade policies, and/or pricing that they can get by going with one of the preferred vendors. You can also decide whether you want to learn a lot about diamond quality yourself or if you just want to go on "easy mode" and select a vetted diamond from a trustworthy jeweler. Some of the "super ideal" vendors include JannPaul who made those videos, Whiteflash, Brian Gavin, and Victor Canera. Their "in-house" diamonds will be vetted for cut quality and because they have the diamonds in-hand you can ask them any questions you want about inclusions, settings, etc.
 
I am from israel.
This is an engagement ring.
I am interested in natural diamond only.
My budget is 4000-4500$.

I'm afraid to buy VS1 for fear that they will see the inclusions..
If I decide to buy VS1 I will be able to find a bigger stone for example 0.80-0.90.
 
You won’t be able to see VS1. Go see some VS1 and VS2 stones in real life. Congratulations on the upcoming engagement!
 
diamond144 said:
I am from israel.
This is an engagement ring.
I am interested in natural diamond only.
My budget is 4000-4500$.

I'm afraid to buy VS1 for fear that they will see the inclusions..
If I decide to buy VS1 I will be able to find a bigger stone for example 0.80-0.90.
Click to expand...

You will absolutely not be able to see inclusions in a VS1 in this size range with the naked eye. Even with a VS2/SI1 you are probably safe. The difference in cut quality will be far more visible and that's where you should put your focus. Did you watch the videos I linked?

I don't know any diamond sources in Israel, but here is a thread from a few years ago about shopping in Israel where the consensus is that there isn't as much selection as you would think: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/buying-diamond-ring-in-israel.243208/

I don't know what your import tax/duty is, but here are some perfectly-cut options in that price range in case you can buy in the US:

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 0.80 ct G VS1 A CUT ABOVE® Hearts and Arrows Super Ideal Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4590500

This Whiteflash A CUT ABOVE® super ideal cut hearts and arrows 0.80 carat G color VS1 clarity loose diamond is graded by the Gemological Institute of America (GIA). | 4590500
www.whiteflash.com

www.whiteflash.com

Diamond | 1.05 ct H VS2 Expert Selection Round Cut Loose Diamond GIA Certified | 4596110

This fabulous 1.05 carat Round Excellent cut diamond has a clarity grade of VS2 and color grade of H.It is an excellent choice for engagement rings. | 4596110
www.whiteflash.com

www.briangavindiamonds.com

0.786 G VS1 Brian Gavin Signature Round

Buy diamonds online - AGS Graded 0.786 carat G VS1 super ideal cut Brian Gavin Signature Hearts and Arrows Round Cut diamond. Lifetime Upgrade Policy!
www.briangavindiamonds.com www.briangavindiamonds.com

www.briangavindiamonds.com

0.9 G VS1 Signature Round

Brian Gavin Diamonds
www.briangavindiamonds.com www.briangavindiamonds.com

Although I think IF clarity is a real waste of money, if it is important to you, you could ask if there is any flexibility in this price: https://victorcanera.com/diamonds/AGS104113277002/0.808ct-G-IF-hearts-arrows-round-natural-diamond
 
People have had good experiences with 77diamonds.com based in the UK.
 
Thank you very much!

Yes, I saw the video and the difference is definitely dramatic.
Unfortunately, you may be right and there is not a large selection of stones here in Israel with excellent cuts.
On the other hand, I am only interested in buying the stone in Israel.
You convinced me to try looking for a VS1 stone with better dimensions and a better cut.
Are these the recommended/ideal proportions? (Shouldn't these dimensions be exceeded?)

Table - 55-59%

Depth - 59-62.6%

Crown - 34-35%

Pavilion Angle - 40.6-41%

Culet - None
 
by the way - I also wanted to ask whether to avoid a stone with the same table and depth? (For example 60/60 or 59/59?)
I want to come prepared with specific requests for the store from which I will purchase the stone.

thanks!
 
The numbers I use are in bold below (click to expand). After finding a stone with the right numbers you'll then need
up close pictures/videos. (Good numbers just arent enough). Good luck out there! Let us know if you need more help!
diamond144 said:
Thank you very much!

Yes, I saw the video and the difference is definitely dramatic.
Unfortunately, you may be right and there is not a large selection of stones here in Israel with excellent cuts.
On the other hand, I am only interested in buying the stone in Israel.
You convinced me to try looking for a VS1 stone with better dimensions and a better cut.
Are these the recommended/ideal proportions? (Shouldn't these dimensions be exceeded?)

Table - 55-59% 56-58%

Depth - 59-62.6% 60-62.3%

Crown - 34-35% 34-35 degrees (i acutually go up to 35.5 because I like a steep crown...with the appropriate pavilion angle)

Pavilion Angle - 40.6-41% 40.6 - 41 degrees

Culet - None
Click to expand...

34 crown pairs with 41 pavilion and vice versa (35 or 35.5 crown with 40.6 pavilion)
 
this might be helpfull to see the relationship crown/pav....
*note personally i like tables 55-57 and avoid 59/60 w 60 depth
1736523236877.png
 
Thank you very much for the numbers, I will send it to the seller.
I will ask him for VS1 / 0.80-0.90 / and D color. (GIA 3X NON)
Should I insist on color D or can I go down to E/F?
I don't think there will be such a big difference in price because of the color..


*Unfortunately, I won't be able to photograph the stone at the time of purchase..
I won't have enough time to consult you during the meeting with him.
I really hope that the seller will bring me a quality stone.
 
i like D with Strong FL and transparent non hazy stones ( I avoid Inert / Non FL) but thats a whole other thing :)
 
D-E-F will all look colorless. I wouldn't limit only to D, the cut quality will be more important.
 
Thank you all so much for the helpful information!
I will definitely insist on cutting in the range of numbers you recommended to me.

Now I just have to decide which option to choose:

#1
0.70 / DEF / VVS1 = (3EX - NON FL - GIA)

#2
0.80-90 / DEF / VS1 = (3EX - NON FL - GIA)
 
IMO no point in paying for a higher clarity grade when the difference is not visible to the naked eye. I have a 0.8 ct SI1 that’s completely eye clean.
 
There is a situation where you are right but I don't intend to go lower than VS1.
I am definitely considering giving up option #1 because there I am paying a lot of money for something that is not visible to me.

I would love to hear more opinions on which option you would choose, #1 or #2?

thanks :)
 
Definitely #2 the VS1, but this is assuming equal cut quality.
 
Keep in mind there is nothing 'wrong' with a 60/60 stone (as long as the 'cut' is good) It just has a different 'look' than stone with table/depth that 'don't match!!
 
UPDATE:

I sent the numbers to the seller and this was his response:

As for the data, most of them are fine.
Regarding the crown you must take a range up to 34-35.5
Very hard to find 34-35.
Since it is not profitable to produce stone Such that the loss in raw weight is large.

what do you say?
Should I ask him to find me a stone with an extra 0.5 for the crown? (35.5)

35.5 crown with 40.6 pavilion is fine?

*Apparently it's hard to find such stones in my country..
 
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I like 35.5 / 40.6 - lots of fire
 
If so I'm calm..
I will wait to see what stone he found for me and then I will post the numbers here.
 
try to get a video too... hitting the # numbers is only part of the story...
 
Unfortunately this will not be possible for me because this will be my second meeting with him and I want to come and purchase at the same meeting.
I don't think I will have time to take pictures and come back again because I live far away.
I will try to ask him for pictures/video but not sure he will send.
Let's see first what he has to offer me.
 
usually the jewlers have access to trade videos (shot in India etc.... when they cut/ polish them)
 
You’ve seen the videos of what a really well cut diamond can look like so you might just have to use your eyes to select from the options that are available to you. You’ve done a good job of narrowing your choices to a selection that should be better cut than most diamonds that are out there. Now you want to look for a nice edge to edge sparkle, a good level of brightness, and a pleasing symmetric facet pattern across the whole face of the stone. The stone should have lots of sparkle moving across the whole surface, and it should have patterns of bright and dark facets, turning off and on across the whole surface of the stone. There should be no areas that remain dark across different lighting sources or as you move your hand. The whole face of the stone should look active with light play. Be sure that you look at it in natural daylight or incandescent light because high spotlighting like they usually have in jewellers makes it hard to assess cut.
 
0.91 - D - VS1

Table - 57%

Depth - 62.6%

Crown - 35

Pavilion - 41

Feather / Pinpoint

what do you say?

Depth is not good enough?
 
35/41 is not a good combo. Depth is also deep for us.

Are you asking for only D/high clarity? You might loosen your specs a little to give your jeweler more room to find
nice stones. DEF are all colorless. VS1 and up is all good. These are all GIA graded correct?
 
I limited the jeweler to VS1 and color D only. I don't want to go below VS1. I'll tell him to search for me DEF colors to give it more room to search.
and yes GIA.
 
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