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Diamond Info Overload

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by jmr928, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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    by jmr928 » Dec 6, 2018
    Hi All - After lurking and reading for the past few weeks I'm finally throwing in the towel on self-research and putting this post out there since you all seem to have such great insight.

    My significant other and I have begun looking at diamonds and I have been given a lot of leeway on picking things out for a surprise after getting some guidance. She wants a round stone and I know she wants a platinum pave setting that's on the thinner side (she's very fair skinned and a size 4). We locally looked at Lazare stones and had an okay but not great experience. While trying things on she seemed pleased with anything bigger than 1.25 but seemed to really light up a bit more when we got closer to/over 1.5, while she insists she'd be happy with anything, seeing her light up a bit more kinda set the 1.5 goal in my mind a bit.

    After starting to research some and finding this website and venturing out on my own with my rough marching orders I'm having a bit of detail overload as I go deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole. This website is full of great information but I'm having trouble running all the information through a filter and prioritizing.

    Feeling pretty set on getting a SuperIdeal and have settled on Whiteflash I think as the place to look but have no idea where to draw the threshold on clarity and color - She seemed to maybe be a little color sensitive and I know neither of us want to be able to see inclusions leaving me torn about G vs H (or higher?) and VS vs Si1.

    I'd ideally like to be in the $13K or less range for the stone but have a little flexibility if I need to. It seems like I can find G's that are Si1 or H's that are VS2 around the 1.5 range or G VS2 in the 1.4 range in that window but really have no idea if I'm making a mountain out of mole hills on these differences in one color or clarity level and .1 carats/.1mm or if these are things that I (and more importantly she) will notice? Any insight or thoughts would be so greatly appreciated!
     
  2. beardog
    Rough_Rock

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    by beardog » Dec 6, 2018
    You're doing fine. Select a couple you like & contact them in the chat. Tell them you'd like to have them compare the ones you like side by side for color difference & which is more visually appealing. Also let them know your* standard of eyeclean. The sites is 10" from the top, this can allow you to see if there's an SI1 that works for you.
    Their staff couldn't be nicer or more helpful
     
  3. kmoro
    Shiny_Rock

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  4. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

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    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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  5. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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  6. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Matilda » Dec 6, 2018
    Does your budget include the setting? If so what price range setting are you looking at?
     
  7. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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    by jmr928 » Dec 6, 2018
    It doesn’t I was planning on just this budget for the stone.
     
  8. ccuheartnurse
    Brilliant_Rock

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  9. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Matilda » Dec 6, 2018
    @ccuheartnurse I agree, I would probably pick that one!! @jmr928 that diamond is in the comparison page I posted.
     
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  10. ccuheartnurse
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ccuheartnurse » Dec 6, 2018
    Sorry Matilda! I have bad manners, didn't refer to your comparison page you spent time putting together. :clap:
     
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  11. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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  12. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Dec 6, 2018
    FYI....most people can start to see a very slight size difference around the 0.20mm mark if two stones are placed side by side. The difference is not significant, blow your socks off and make you go wow. In fact, if you were blindly shown two stones at different times, you may not even realize there was a size difference.

    As a point of reference:
    • 0.20mm difference is about 1/128th of an inch
    • 0.10mm difference is about 1/256th of an inch

    For this reason, sticking in the 1.4 carat range will give the same visual appeal of a 1.5ct stone while avoiding price premium associated with hitting the magic 1.5 carat mark.

    Also, I might note that I find it frustrating to relate size to carat weight. By pure math, the approximate weight of a round diamond is determined by this formula: length x width x depth x 0.061.

    As you begin to examine diamonds closer you will learn that things like table size, crown and pavilion angles will affect all these dimensions. Also, a poorly cut stone known as "deep & steep" may weigh 1.5 carats but may face up much smaller. Whereas an ideal cut smaller stone would look every bit as large, if not bigger, than a poorly cut 1.5ct+ stone. Another variable would be a large table and shallow crown such which will provide a stone with lots of white light return and actually look larger than it's carat weight because of the table & crown angle.

    It's the equivalent of having a big box filled with coal and a smaller box filled with a diamond, and then asking you to choose the best box. If you don't know how to analyze the inside contents of each box, and merely base it on weight you will get coal.
     
  13. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Dec 6, 2018
    FYI, the A Cut Above (ACA) series of diamonds is WF's premier H&A stone. The Expert Select (ES) series just misses the ACA mark and has AGS certification. They have a similar line called the Premium Select (PS) that just misses the ACA mark but has GIA certification.

    How narrowly the ES and PS stones miss the ACA mark depends on each independent stone, but are generally thought of as very high quality stones.

    The ACA, ES and PS stones all have the same great trade-in policy -- get full value of original stone when upgrading to a stone of equal or higher value. This is pretty phenomenal as most places require you spend 2x as much as the original purchase to get your initial value back and can make it difficult to upgrade if you learn (sooner rather than later) that you need higher color, clarity, size, etc.

    A final thought is learning your SO's color sensitivity. I know you are on the fence between a G and H. In my own experience, I thought my (now) fiancee wasn't color sensitive at all and I proceeded on with an H as it's still very, very white especially in a super ideal stone. Afterwards I learned she could easily see the tint in her stone, although she claims she isn't bothered by it.

    That said, most people can't tell the difference between 1 shade; however, based on my experience I might be inclined to go with a higher color. I know sometimes we say we will buy an H an upgrade if she doesn't like. But that philosophy only works if your girl isn't all sentimental and will actually do the upgrade once you present the stone to her. Otherwise, she may just not say anything and/or keep it for sentimental purposes.

    So I would encourage you to look at some GIA or AGS graded stones and get a real feel for her color preference BEFORE you buy.
     
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  14. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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    by jmr928 » Dec 6, 2018
    Thank you - This was exactly what I was wondering on the noticeability on color changes - I'll try and get her to go take a peek and see if I can find out if they have some AGS000 G's and H's to pull so we can get a sense of how sensitive she is to color, clarity and size changes and try to prompt the sales person to not tell her what she is looking at.
     
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  15. rockysalamander
    Ideal_Rock

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    by rockysalamander » Dec 6, 2018
    You probably won't find AGS000 in the wild. Look at GIA stones. Give then 1 at a time to her and dont say color. See what she can see...and, if she can see color does she mind if it means a bigger stone. Any PS vendor speaks GIA and can tell you on how that presents for their AGS stones.
     
  16. ringo865
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by ringo865 » Dec 6, 2018
    Have them show you from a g to a j (never next to one another)
     
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  17. Matilda
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Matilda » Dec 6, 2018
    @ccuheartnurse cannot tell if you are being sarcastic! but no don't think bad manners at all, if you were not being sarcastic!
     
  18. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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    by jmr928 » Dec 10, 2018
    We made it out to the local store this weekend to take a peek at what they had and viewed a range of AGS000's from Lazare Kaplan in F-H and then some GIA stones from ForeverMark in H-I and she didn't seem to notice the color as much when they were face up and weren't side by side on a white display tray which makes me more confident in an H - Even when she had an F vs an H on her hand side by she just saw sparkle in jewelry store light and daylight. Thanks to all of you for the tips on viewing and looking one at a time.

    Now for the fun part - picking one out! On this list - is there one that's proportions jump out at you of having better proportions or that you'd expect to perform better? https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4042791,4011141,4059354,4045312,4042793

    I'm hesitant to trust my eyes online in a video but the H Si1's seem to be throwing more light and maybe a little bigger flashes - Any concerns about the types of inclusions I should be aware of that would compromise the diamond? Thanks again for all the insight!
    104100413043.png 104087979003.png
     
  19. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Dec 10, 2018
    My understanding is that WF wouldn't sell stones with compromised structural integrity or light performance, so you should have no worries on that front.

    The ACAs are 'top of the line' in terms of cut, so all of them should perform well. Other than the visibility of inclusions (and their acceptability to you / your intended), I think the only thing to perhaps consider is if you like broader flashes of light (so would prefer shorter Lower Girdle Facet (LGF) lengths, say 75% or 76%) or more 'splintery' flashes of light (so would like longer LGFs, approaching 80%).
     
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  20. jmr928
    Rough_Rock

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    by jmr928 » Dec 11, 2018
    Thanks, @OoohShiny. Tagging @sledge @ccuheartnurse and @Matilda who had good info.

    I think I've narrowed it down to three stones and think I'm probably splitting hairs at this point and reaching the paralysis by analysis stage - Of these three is there one that jumps out? I did check on HCA scores and all are in the .9-1ish range - I've tried to look at the HCA details and in some old threads - Any concerns about these not performing well set on a ring? ASETs and IdealScopes look pretty much identical to my admittedly untrained eye. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=4011141,4045312,4042793 I'm leaning toward the 1.51 which had an HCA of .9.
     
  21. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Dec 11, 2018
    IIRC the only concerns with lower HCA scores (<1) is that they might suffer excessive obstruction in a few cases when viewed head-on, but as they are ACA stones, I don't believe it will be an issue. (The benefit of using WF and the other PS-recommended vendors is that you have excellent Returns policy and customer service to rely on if needed.)

    They will all look great, I'm sure, but the shorter LGFs and the table at the smaller end of the recommended scale should mean there is increased opportunity for dispersion in the 1.51, which should mean it creates more coloured 'fire' :)
     
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  22. sledge
    Ideal_Rock

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    by sledge » Dec 11, 2018
    Everyone, let's not forget the HCA is for GIA stones only. The tool approximates light return, etc.

    AGS graded stones utilize advanced 3D modeling to scan the stone and consequently create a computer ASET. And since these are all ACA's, WF provides actual ASET's as well. All this is advanced and hard data that supersedes the HCA approximation.
     
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