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Diamond experts help, I need fire!

Eeveepenny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
132
Will one of these diamonds have more noticeable fire than the others or is it splitting hairs?

Diamond 1:
Table 55
Depth 62.1
Crown angle 35
Pavilion angle 40.8

Diamond 2:
Table 56.5
Depth 61.6
Crown angle 34.5
Pavillon angle 40.8

Diamond 3:
Table 57
Depth 61.5
Crown angle 35
Pavilion angle 40.8
 

headlight

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,485
Well, it used to be that the smaller tables yielded more fire, but since the incarnation of the super ideals, table size isn't an issue as long as it meets super ideal standards so I think others should comment. All those specs certainly look great. Part of it is going to be how do you feel about table size. Some people, like me, are drawn to small tables. Other people have an aversion to them. So that is part of it, as well. None of these are larger tables where you will be getting more brilliance than fire so I think that it is really a matter of "flavor" here rather than which is going to yield more fire.
 

mwilliamanderson

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
640
You might to search the threads I remember there is one on best FIC parameters. It was more like PA 40.6 CA 35.5 or 36 if I remember correctly. I may have saved it. If so I’ll come back and post.

Here it is. Sorry I don’t have a link to the original post. I believe it was @Garry H (Cut Nut) and @Karl_K

“FIC Firey Ideal Cut Crown angle should be more than 35.5°
A small table also helps.
But the stone must still have <2.0 HCA score which means the stone MUST have a shallow pavilion - near 40 degrees - no more than 40.6.
it will apear to have twice as many facets as an old cut (even though there are the same #)

FIC's will be deeper - so probably only look above 61% up to 65% depth

"Karl K has suggested a rough limit of 50T/80lgf/37c/40.5P/45 stars as a close to the edge of a well balanced FIC."

That would be very close to the ultimate FIC in my opinion.

I wouldn't push it much further.
 

Eeveepenny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
132
You might to search the threads I remember there is one on best FIC parameters. It was more like PA 40.6 CA 35.5 or 36 if I remember correctly. I may have saved it. If so I’ll come back and post.

Here it is. Sorry I don’t have a link to the original post. I believe it was @Garry H (Cut Nut) and @Karl_K

“FIC Firey Ideal Cut Crown angle should be more than 35.5°
A small table also helps.
But the stone must still have <2.0 HCA score which means the stone MUST have a shallow pavilion - near 40 degrees - no more than 40.6.
it will apear to have twice as many facets as an old cut (even though there are the same #)

FIC's will be deeper - so probably only look above 61% up to 65% depth

"Karl K has suggested a rough limit of 50T/80lgf/37c/40.5P/45 stars as a close to the edge of a well balanced FIC."

That would be very close to the ultimate FIC in my opinion.

I wouldn't push it much further.
Thank you so much!
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,879
You might to search the threads I remember there is one on best FIC parameters. It was more like PA 40.6 CA 35.5 or 36 if I remember correctly. I may have saved it. If so I’ll come back and post.

Here it is. Sorry I don’t have a link to the original post. I believe it was @Garry H (Cut Nut) and @Karl_K

“FIC Firey Ideal Cut Crown angle should be more than 35.5°
A small table also helps.
But the stone must still have <2.0 HCA score which means the stone MUST have a shallow pavilion - near 40 degrees - no more than 40.6.
it will apear to have twice as many facets as an old cut (even though there are the same #)

FIC's will be deeper - so probably only look above 61% up to 65% depth

"Karl K has suggested a rough limit of 50T/80lgf/37c/40.5P/45 stars as a close to the edge of a well balanced FIC."

That would be very close to the ultimate FIC in my opinion.

I wouldn't push it much further.
Serg has posted on here to say that he prefers deeper diamonds (that I believe don't score as well on the HCA tool), which can be more fiery, IIRC.

Might have been in this thread - I can't remember!

 

mwilliamanderson

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
640
Serg has posted on here to say that he prefers deeper diamonds (that I believe don't score as well on the HCA tool), which can be more fiery, IIRC.

Might have been in this thread - I can't remember!

Well, as usual after reading those long debates where the experts weigh in ( and don’t agree) I’m even more confused. My take away from it all is to buy the best cut parameters (near Tolk) crafted with the most precision.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,879
Well, as usual after reading those long debates where the experts weigh in ( and don’t agree) I’m even more confused. My take away from it all is to buy the best cut parameters (near Tolk) crafted with the most precision.
lol

I can totally appreciate that!

In my head I've read it as 'there are a range of options, which each have different flavours, and it is personal taste as to which you like' - and if even the experts have differing opinions, that says to me that it's worth considering a wide range of options :)

As you say, though, stick to around Tolk and one can't go too far wrong!

Serg's 'Sweet Line' page is worth a read :)

 

Texas Leaguer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 27, 2009
Messages
3,273
It's worth remembering that in addition to two-dimensional proportions, facet precision is important to maximizing fire. Transparency also has an impact on a diamond's ability to exhibit fire, independent of cut quality.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,332
also searching for max fire in a mrb is like searching for love in all the wrong places.
well cut OEC or well cut step cut will easily blow it away in fire ability.
 

Eeveepenny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
132
Thanks everyone, I’ve done heaps of reading up on all the fic threads today and I managed to find a diamond that I’m hoping will be a fic.
These are the stats
Table 55
Depth 61.8
Crown height 36.4 16.5%
Pavilion depth 39.9 42%
HCA 0.9

Will this be a firey diamond?
 
Last edited:

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
1,911
Thanks Karl...now I've got this stuck in my head. :lol:


Eeveepenny, you're going to need to get the stone in hand to decide if it has enough fire for you. I've had a lot of stones with similar proportions & they all perform a bit different from each other.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,879
Thanks everyone, I’ve done heaps of reading up on all the fic threads today and I managed to find a diamond that I’m hoping will be a fic.
These are the stats
Table 55
Depth 61.8
Crown height 36.4 16.5%
Pavilion depth 39.9 42%
HCA 0.9

Will this be a firey diamond?
Is that Pavilion Angle 39.9 degrees?

I'm not sure if that presents a risk of leakage/obstruction - I recall @Karl_K mentioned 40.45 degrees (IIRC??) as being a sort of cut-off for MRBs but I also recall Serg saying something about it, but I can't remember if it was a leakage risk or a risk of excessive obstruction... :???: :lol:


This post has been no help :D lol
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,332
Is that Pavilion Angle 39.9 degrees?

I'm not sure if that presents a risk of leakage/obstruction - I recall @Karl_K mentioned 40.45 degrees (IIRC??) as being a sort of cut-off for MRBs but I also recall Serg saying something about it, but I can't remember if it was a leakage risk or a risk of excessive obstruction... :???: :lol:


This post has been no help :D lol
yes below 40.45 you get a lot of obstruction, if you go low enough it flips back but this isn't one of them,
Its predicted to have obstruction issues and up to 10% reduced light return.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,535
fire is 95%+ lighting and less than 5% cut difference for a mrb.
You could upgrade the Idea:

It has not any sense to select a diamond with better optical performance( Fire, Brilliancy) because everything depends from light. Without light all diamonds show same zero optical optical performance
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,332
You could upgrade the Idea:

It has not any sense to select a diamond with better optical performance( Fire, Brilliancy) because everything depends from light. Without light all diamonds show same zero optical optical performance
yes that is badly worded.
Its 100% lighting dependant.
There is a small differece between the best for fire mrb compared to the average mrb.
If you want better fire you go to a different cut.
 

Mlh

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 6, 2019
Messages
399
@Karl_K , ever hear of Fire Polished cutting? Says they cut into the pavillion to make more fire?
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,879
Thanks for your assistance, @Karl_K! :))
 
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