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Diamond change anxiety- help?

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
My original diamond engagement ring has a very visible flaw in it and is not a very good stone.
Dh told me the stone that was initially bought (via a family member so sadly no paperwork) was a much better stone - clear & very sparkly.
He always had a feeling the jeweler who set it switched the stone but bec of no gia report , there was no proof.

Well onto now, my upgrade is from graff & they sent a gia report a few days later . Their stones are not engraved with the gia report number so honestly, how do I know if the report matches the stone in the ring I bought? I asked graff and they assured me it's the same but how can I be sure?
Any reassurance?
(No honest local jewelers here that i could ask to look at my stone.)
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,131
Jewelers switching the stone is vanishingly rare. Graff switching the stone is an idea that is absurd on its face. If you want to be sure, take the report and your ring to an appraiser and have them appraise it - explain your paranoia and I'm sure they will able to do it without it ever leaving your sight. Or you can get a high-powered loupe or good macro camera and identify the inclusions in your diamond compared to the inclusions in the plot yourself (be sure to clean your stone very, very well before doing this because dust can look like inclusions).
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
Thank you distracts, dh said it's too risky for graff to do. But gotta love anxiety....
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
27,109
I'm with distracts.

Get a high-quality loupe - high power is not as important as high quality, IOW high resolution.
I can resolve more detail with with my high quality German Schneider 10X loupe than with a cheap 20x.
I can even read the GIA report numbers on the girdle of my diamonds if I get the lighting angle just right.

The Belomo loupe is a great value at $38 for a 10x or a 15x on amazon prime.
Optics are from Belarus, where Russia had their best military optics made during the cold war.

Research how to use your loupe correctly; it's not obvious.
Practice comparing your diamond's inclusions to those on the plot of your GIA report.
Hopefully you didn't buy a flawless diamond. ;))

You will no longer have to trust someone else to verify your stone when you drop it off or pick it up.
 
Last edited:

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
I'm with distracts.

Get a high-quality loupe - high power is not as important as high quality, IOW high resolution.
I can resolve more detail with with my high quality German Schneider 10X loupe than with a cheap 20x.
I can even read the GIA report numbers on the girdle of my diamonds if I get the lighting angle just right.

The Belomo loupe is a great value at $38 for a 10x or a 15x on amazon prime.
Optics are from Belarus, where Russia had their best military optics made during the cold war.

Research how to use your loupe correctly; it's not obvious.
Practice comparing your diamond's inclusions to those on the plot of your GIA report.
Hopefully you didn't buy a flawless diamond. ;))

You will no longer have to trust someone else to verify your stone when you drop it off or pick it up.
Graff said their stones don't have the gia report number on them! That's part of what caused my anxiety.
And no, certainly not flawless!
Where does one buy such a loupe?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,120
Many diamonds do not have the number inscribed on them. So that's nothing to be concerned about. You bought a diamond from Graff. There is zero chance they'd misrepresent their diamonds. You pay dearly for the brand name, so they have no reason to misrepresent the diamond.

If the diamond is VS1 or higher, you're likely not going to see much with a loupe. Let it go. There's no way the diamond is not the one on the report.
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
Sorry I missed the part about being on Amazon!
Diamondseeker I just keep going back to my original diamond that was almost certainly swapped. Maybe bec that was a smaller local store they figured they can get away with it?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,120
Sorry I missed the part about being on Amazon!
Diamondseeker I just keep going back to my original diamond that was almost certainly swapped. Maybe bec that was a smaller local store they figured they can get away with it?
Small local stores are vastly different than a Graff or Van Cleef. The vast majority are honest and care about their reputations. There may be a small number of dishonest ones. But with all due respect, your husband likely did not have that original stone appraised nor buy a loupe to carefully examine it prior to purchase. Most people wouldn't know enough to do that anyway.The relative may have told him it was a great stone, etc. I honestly would give the jeweler more benefit of the doubt considering there is no evidence at all that this stone was switched. People selling diamonds second hand often have a higher opinion of the stone than it really deserves.

Congrats on your new ring! Enjoy it as there is no need to worry. Also, we'd love to see pictures, so please post on Show Me the Bling when you can!
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
Actually it was not a second hand stone. Additionally, it was a very high quality that dh bought via his uncle, who certainly knows his stuff . (Why he never got paperwork idk. )
The stone had zero eye visible flaws & a very good color- almost blue when it was loose.

The stone that is on my setting has a large eye visible inclusion, yellowish color etc.

I have no reason to trust a store over my husband & his uncle! Can I prove it, no. Am I quite certain, yes.
(Another person I know also had some jewelry swapped out when it was sent for repairs locally.)

Not trying to be pedantic, but I want to explain my history w stones & why I'm worried now over matching the stone I got to the gia report.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,131
Small local stores are vastly different than a Graff or Van Cleef. The vast majority are honest and care about their reputations. There may be a small number of dishonest ones. But with all due respect, your husband likely did not have that original stone appraised nor buy a loupe to carefully examine it prior to purchase. Most people wouldn't know enough to do that anyway.The relative may have told him it was a great stone, etc. I honestly would give the jeweler more benefit of the doubt considering there is no evidence at all that this stone was switched. People selling diamonds second hand often have a higher opinion of the stone than it really deserves.

Congrats on your new ring! Enjoy it as there is no need to worry. Also, we'd love to see pictures, so please post on Show Me the Bling when you can!
I agree.

It is far, far more likely that the uncle took advantage of your husband's ignorance and lied about the specs of the stone or used a third-rate lab/"vanity lab" if we can call them that for the report, than that the stone was swapped. In all my years on PS I have never seen an actual instance of stone-swapping but have seen many, MANY men buy the first sparkly thing they see without doing proper research and essentially get fleeced, and this happens WAY more often when it is a transaction with a friend or family member.
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
I would disagree about his uncle.
But if the flaw is so noticeable in the setting & yellow - wouldn't it have been more obvious in a loose stone?
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,131
I would disagree about his uncle.
But if the flaw is so noticeable in the setting & yellow - wouldn't it have been more obvious in a loose stone?
Depending on the lighting, not at all. Certain lights make diamonds look whiter and certain lights make diamonds look sparklier, which could certainly hide inclusions. Just about everyone selling diamonds is going to be showing them in that lighting. Unless you have very good pictures of the stone loose, your memory also plays tricks on you. The first time you saw the diamond there are a lot of emotions happening and you and your husband were probably dazzled by the whole experience as much as by the diamond. Those two things combined are why it is SO common for people to buy diamonds that end up being not what they really wanted.
 

Alex T

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 24, 2012
Messages
4,340
Can I also chip in, not to discuss whether the stone was swapped or not, but just to say maybe next time you're at Graff, you could ask them if they could give your old stone a thorough clean for you? I keep my solitaire super clean, in fact I would go as far as to say I am obsessed about it being clean, but it is never, ever as clean or sparkly as it is when I take it into the jewellers if I'm passing.

The difference with their industrial cleaning stuff is phenomenal! No matter what I do, I cannot get between the diamond & under bezel clean. But they can & it's amazing.
 

smitcompton

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 11, 2006
Messages
2,522
Hi,

I just don't understand why Graff did not have the number of the GIA report put on the diamond. The cost is minimal. Go back to Graff and ask that they unmount the stone and send it back to GIA for etching of the GIA number on the diamond. I can't see why they would not do this. This is Graff for goodness sake. Tell them your insurance company wants it on the diamond. Put your mind at rest.

Annette
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
Hi,

I just don't understand why Graff did not have the number of the GIA report put on the diamond. The cost is minimal. Go back to Graff and ask that they unmount the stone and send it back to GIA for etching of the GIA number on the diamond. I can't see why they would not do this. This is Graff for goodness sake. Tell them your insurance company wants it on the diamond. Put your mind at rest.

Annette
Graff said they don't.
I initially told them about my previous issue w my original stone & asked them how I would know .
The salesperson assured me she is a gemologist & she knows it's the same stone as the gia report.
However, the gia report was in london & was sent 2 weeks after I bought the ring. Which also niggles at my brain.
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
Depending on the lighting, not at all. Certain lights make diamonds look whiter and certain lights make diamonds look sparklier, which could certainly hide inclusions. Just about everyone selling diamonds is going to be showing them in that lighting. Unless you have very good pictures of the stone loose, your memory also plays tricks on you. The first time you saw the diamond there are a lot of emotions happening and you and your husband were probably dazzled by the whole experience as much as by the diamond. Those two things combined are why it is SO common for people to buy diamonds that end up being not what they really wanted.
Thanks for not just putting this on my husband's uncle.
I never saw it loose, it was presented to me done in the setting (& was not my taste at all).
After we examined it more closely my husband said the stone looks so different than the one we gave to be set. Even the insurance appraiser gave a very low value, & dh got upset bec it was supposed to be worth much more.

(I thought a setting would hide flaws better than loose).

I feel like it's so unlikely Graff would do this (although apparently Kay jewelers was accused of doing such a swap.)
But I just wish I could know for sure for sure, like if i had an independent jeweler i could absolutely trust to look at the stone & the report and say yes it's the same.
But I don't know anyone like this.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,131
If you are close enough to get to Graff in NYC, I guarantee there are many independent appraisers you could hire. You can look at the PS resources for appraisers linked at the top. Explain your worries when you call and you will be able to find someone who can do the entire appraisal without taking the stone out of your sight and someone who has a big screen connected to their microscope so they can show you the inclusions compares to the GIA report inclusion map so they can show you that it matches. Ask them to walk you through how to match the inclusions to the report, and then after they show it to you, see if you can do it yourself with only a loupe. Tell them on the phone when you call you want their help with all this - you may have to pay a bit more but once you learn how, you will have more peace of mind for every jewelry purchase or repair for the rest of your life.

Re: things appearing worse once set: when I got my mahenge spinel ring back from being set, I knew it was the same stone but I thought it had been damaged while the stone was away because it had a visible crack in it. HOWEVER since I was already a PSer at this point, I had taken lots of macro photos of the stone right after I bought it, including some face-down. When I went back and looked at them, yep, that was already there and didn’t look any worse at all. I had just never noticed during the multiple years I had the loose stone (during which time I looked at it regularly! For years! In the same lighting I then saw the ring in!).

It’s the line on the right side here, with another pic in the same light to show that it really easily hides:
FE956785-A4FF-4195-A292-E35AC8263255.jpeg
F84FD1C1-107D-4AFA-B580-EF3A3B753EAE.jpeg

Now for some pictures from the day I bought it, three years before getting it set:

C2166C66-8FC4-4531-9F1F-BB4620971465.jpeg 9DA4B4F7-7DC0-4B5D-86CE-E375C7E7BEDC.jpeg F026D550-87C3-46D2-8735-920CA450726A.jpeg 741CEE34-CE9C-4C16-80E3-87561228AE90.jpeg

You can clearly see the feather in the last two - but not at all in the first or second picture (the first is at the place where I bought it, and it was in my hands from when I first looked at it until after I got home). I just straight-up did not notice it for years until after I got it set. If I hadn’t had these pictures and a few I had taken through a loupe, I would have been sure either the designer or jeweler had damaged the stone. But my pictures show that has been there since the day I bought it.

Re: appraisal, it is also very common for sellers to overinflate the value they give you and tell you the stone is worth more than you’re paying for it. Which doesn’t really make sense from a business standpoint because I guarantee if they could actually get a higher amount for the stone they would - but it makes people feel better when buying. Again, this is very VERY common. How did the insurance appraisal compare to what he actually paid for the diamond? Was it in line with it or less than it? Because if it was in line with what he actually paid, or maybe 10-20% less, then that is also completely normal if your insurance appraisal was for replacement value. It wouldn’t indicate anything more than you paying a fair price or slightly over paying for the diamond (again, super common), not that it’s a different one entirely.
 

Polabowla

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 15, 2019
Messages
57
If you are close enough to get to Graff in NYC, I guarantee there are many independent appraisers you could hire. You can look at the PS resources for appraisers linked at the top. Explain your worries when you call and you will be able to find someone who can do the entire appraisal without taking the stone out of your sight and someone who has a big screen connected to their microscope so they can show you the inclusions compares to the GIA report inclusion map so they can show you that it matches. Ask them to walk you through how to match the inclusions to the report, and then after they show it to you, see if you can do it yourself with only a loupe. Tell them on the phone when you call you want their help with all this - you may have to pay a bit more but once you learn how, you will have more peace of mind for every jewelry purchase or repair for the rest of your life.

Re: things appearing worse once set: when I got my mahenge spinel ring back from being set, I knew it was the same stone but I thought it had been damaged while the stone was away because it had a visible crack in it. HOWEVER since I was already a PSer at this point, I had taken lots of macro photos of the stone right after I bought it, including some face-down. When I went back and looked at them, yep, that was already there and didn’t look any worse at all. I had just never noticed during the multiple years I had the loose stone (during which time I looked at it regularly! For years! In the same lighting I then saw the ring in!).

It’s the line on the right side here, with another pic in the same light to show that it really easily hides:
FE956785-A4FF-4195-A292-E35AC8263255.jpeg
F84FD1C1-107D-4AFA-B580-EF3A3B753EAE.jpeg

Now for some pictures from the day I bought it, three years before getting it set:

C2166C66-8FC4-4531-9F1F-BB4620971465.jpeg 9DA4B4F7-7DC0-4B5D-86CE-E375C7E7BEDC.jpeg F026D550-87C3-46D2-8735-920CA450726A.jpeg 741CEE34-CE9C-4C16-80E3-87561228AE90.jpeg

You can clearly see the feather in the last two - but not at all in the first or second picture (the first is at the place where I bought it, and it was in my hands from when I first looked at it until after I got home). I just straight-up did not notice it for years until after I got it set. If I hadn’t had these pictures and a few I had taken through a loupe, I would have been sure either the designer or jeweler had damaged the stone. But my pictures show that has been there since the day I bought it.

Re: appraisal, it is also very common for sellers to overinflate the value they give you and tell you the stone is worth more than you’re paying for it. Which doesn’t really make sense from a business standpoint because I guarantee if they could actually get a higher amount for the stone they would - but it makes people feel better when buying. Again, this is very VERY common. How did the insurance appraisal compare to what he actually paid for the diamond? Was it in line with it or less than it? Because if it was in line with what he actually paid, or maybe 10-20% less, then that is also completely normal if your insurance appraisal was for replacement value. It wouldn’t indicate anything more than you paying a fair price or slightly over paying for the diamond (again, super common), not that it’s a different one entirely.
Your post was so interesting & informative and really calmed me down! Thank you so much & your ring is gorgeous!
If I get a chance to go back to nyc I can look up one of the appraisers.
 

foxinsox

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
2,865
Your post was so interesting & informative and really calmed me down! Thank you so much & your ring is gorgeous!
If I get a chance to go back to nyc I can look up one of the appraisers.
There are also other independent appraisers linked who may be local to you so you don't have to wait until you're next in NYC.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
19,953
If you are close enough to get to Graff in NYC, I guarantee there are many independent appraisers you could hire. You can look at the PS resources for appraisers linked at the top. Explain your worries when you call and you will be able to find someone who can do the entire appraisal without taking the stone out of your sight and someone who has a big screen connected to their microscope so they can show you the inclusions compares to the GIA report inclusion map so they can show you that it matches. Ask them to walk you through how to match the inclusions to the report, and then after they show it to you, see if you can do it yourself with only a loupe. Tell them on the phone when you call you want their help with all this - you may have to pay a bit more but once you learn how, you will have more peace of mind for every jewelry purchase or repair for the rest of your life.

Re: things appearing worse once set: when I got my mahenge spinel ring back from being set, I knew it was the same stone but I thought it had been damaged while the stone was away because it had a visible crack in it. HOWEVER since I was already a PSer at this point, I had taken lots of macro photos of the stone right after I bought it, including some face-down. When I went back and looked at them, yep, that was already there and didn’t look any worse at all. I had just never noticed during the multiple years I had the loose stone (during which time I looked at it regularly! For years! In the same lighting I then saw the ring in!).

It’s the line on the right side here, with another pic in the same light to show that it really easily hides:
FE956785-A4FF-4195-A292-E35AC8263255.jpeg
F84FD1C1-107D-4AFA-B580-EF3A3B753EAE.jpeg

Now for some pictures from the day I bought it, three years before getting it set:

C2166C66-8FC4-4531-9F1F-BB4620971465.jpeg 9DA4B4F7-7DC0-4B5D-86CE-E375C7E7BEDC.jpeg F026D550-87C3-46D2-8735-920CA450726A.jpeg 741CEE34-CE9C-4C16-80E3-87561228AE90.jpeg

You can clearly see the feather in the last two - but not at all in the first or second picture (the first is at the place where I bought it, and it was in my hands from when I first looked at it until after I got home). I just straight-up did not notice it for years until after I got it set. If I hadn’t had these pictures and a few I had taken through a loupe, I would have been sure either the designer or jeweler had damaged the stone. But my pictures show that has been there since the day I bought it.

Re: appraisal, it is also very common for sellers to overinflate the value they give you and tell you the stone is worth more than you’re paying for it. Which doesn’t really make sense from a business standpoint because I guarantee if they could actually get a higher amount for the stone they would - but it makes people feel better when buying. Again, this is very VERY common. How did the insurance appraisal compare to what he actually paid for the diamond? Was it in line with it or less than it? Because if it was in line with what he actually paid, or maybe 10-20% less, then that is also completely normal if your insurance appraisal was for replacement value. It wouldn’t indicate anything more than you paying a fair price or slightly over paying for the diamond (again, super common), not that it’s a different one entirely.
This is such an awesome visual - thank you for sharing @distracts!!

Ditto @kenny, a quality 10x loupe is far superior to a poorly made loupe with higher magnification - the more the magnification the less forgiving the focal range. I love my Bausch & Lomb Hastings triplet. Have heard excellent reviews of the Belomo triplet as well.
 
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