Diamond Certification Question

[hundley1832]

Hey all, I posted on here last week about getting help with buying an engagement ring and I was very pleased with the advice I got, so I figured I would come back for more! As far as diamond certification goes, is it wise to stay away from diamonds that are not certified at all? Would that be similar to buying a car without a CarFax report and just taking the seller's word that it is in good condition? Also, for the ones that are certified, is there a big difference in certification types? From what I've read, GIA seems to be the gold standard, but are the others just as good? Any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[04diamond<3]

For older cut stones you don't "need" a certified stone...but for modern cuts, yes we recommend sticking to certified stones. GIA and AGS are the top graders (AGS is a little more loose), if you're going to go with EGL just stick with EGL USA.

** By old cuts I mean the chunckier faceted stones like old miner and antique cut stones.

 

[heididdl]

Yes I agree for the older stones not as necessary but GIA is the industry standard. That being said just because its certified doesn't mean its a good stone. It is just accurately represented.

Brick and mortar stores will tell you you can get more bang for your buck with stones that aren't certified but in the long run just like anything else you get what you pay for.

Several of us PS have had bad experiences buying uncertified stones. As a matter of fact. When I had my eternity band reset (I had it made for me 12 years ago) I got the bill and appraisal from the 47th street jeweler and it listed the ring at 5.25 carats. I had the band reset two years ago and added stones and they weighed them aas 4.75 that's a big difference. I thought I trusted the guy who made my ring.

 

[DelsFan]

Do I understand correctly, GIA and AGS grade similarly in clarity, but an AGS F-color stone might be a G/H with GIA certificate?

 

[hundley1832]

Thanks for the help so far! This is the diamond I am currently looking at: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pag...&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=6157197634

Any comments on the stone itself or any estimates on what I should be looking to pay for a stone like that? Thanks again.

 

[c-k]

Do I understand correctly, GIA and AGS grade similarly in clarity, but an AGS F-color stone might be a G/H with GIA certificate?

a GIA F may be a G as well as a AGSL F may be a G, or a GIA G may be an F as well as a AGSL G may be a F. Industry standards of each lab can be a grade one way or the other. They both are great Labs, if I had a choice I would buy an AGSL Ideal over an GIA XXX because of the cut grading that is used by AGSL.

There was a very recent thread on just this topic, with some good experts who posted.

 

[bunnycat]

Do I understand correctly, GIA and AGS grade similarly in clarity, but an AGS F-color stone might be a G/H with GIA certificate?

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-topic-again.189748/#post-3456877#p3456877']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/ags-vs-gia-topic-again.189748/#post-3456877#p3456877[/URL]

Here is a recent thread on this topic. AGS and GIA grade on par. My understanding is there is a one grade difference tolerance as was suggested. GIA is the biggest. AGS is smaller but focuses on cut quality grading.

 

[Christina...]

I would only purchase a stone with a GIA or AGS report, they are the most recognized,respected and accurate labs in the world. Since grading is done by humans as is thus subjective, it isn't unusual (and is accepted) that grades could be off by one. It is not true, or at least there has been no large scale study that has proven that AGS is looser than GIA on color grading. Many BM stores sell EGL graded stones, and I would advice against these as well if you don't have a lot of diamond buying or viewing experience. EGL is known for it's loose grading and it's common to find EGL graded stones that would be off by several (or as many as color and or clarity grades if it had been graded accurately by GIA/AGS. I would also strongly advice that you not purchase a stone without a grading report. It's important to remember that diamonds sell for what they are worth. There is not a lab out there that is attempting to do you a favor by selling diamonds at a discount, and this includes uncerted stones at BM stores. If an EGL(or with no report) stone graded H VS2 is selling for $3000 and a GIA K SI2 of the same ct weight is selling for $3000, then you can bet that the EGL stone is a K SI2 had it been graded properly. This doesn't even take into consideration the differences in cut grades between these labs, that is a whole 'nother story.

Do yourself a favor and only consider stones with AGS or GIA reports!!

 

[bunnycat]

I would only purchase a stone with a GIA or AGS report, they are the most recognized,respected and accurate labs in the world. Since grading is done by humans as is thus subjective, it isn't unusual (and is accepted) that grades could be off by one. It is not true, or at least there has been no large scale study that has proven that AGS is looser than GIA on color grading. Many BM stores sell EGL graded stones, and I would advice against these as well if you don't have a lot of diamond buying or viewing experience. EGL is known for it's loose grading and it's common to find EGL graded stones that would be off by several (or as many as color and or clarity grades if it had been graded accurately by GIA/AGS. I would also strongly advice that you not purchase a stone without a grading report. It's important to remember that diamonds sell for what they are worth. There is not a lab out there that is attempting to do you a favor by selling diamonds at a discount, and this includes uncerted stones at BM stores. If an EGL(or with no report) stone graded H VS2 is selling for $3000 and a GIA K SI2 of the same ct weight is selling for $3000, then you can bet that the EGL stone is a K SI2 had it been graded properly. This doesn't even take into consideration the differences in cut grades between these labs, that is a whole 'nother story.

Do yourself a favor and only consider stones with AGS or GIA reports!!

too true Christina.

 

[darkadam]

Sorry to jump in, but what about IGI certificates ? When I was looking for diamonds, one me the diamonds shown to me had an IGI certificate. The seller took care to emphasize that it was the Belgium IGI lab rather then other branches me IGI, and that the stone was cut In Belgium.

When I compared the stone, an E color, and the asets to a similar stone graded F by GIA, and with similar angles around the 34.5/40.8 range, the IGI stone looked whiter and more well cut. Yet he mentioned that he was having trouble selling the IGI stone because of the certificate. How is the reputation of IGI as I rarely see it mentioned here. Is it so average, not as good as AGS/GIA yet not as bad as EGL, that it's not wort mentioning ?

 

[Christina...]

Sorry to jump in, but what about IGI certificates ? When I was looking for diamonds, one me the diamonds shown to me had an IGI certificate. The seller took care to emphasize that it was the Belgium IGI lab rather then other branches me IGI, and that the stone was cut In Belgium.

When I compared the stone, an E color, and the asets to a similar stone graded F by GIA, and with similar angles around the 34.5/40.8 range, the IGI stone looked whiter and more well cut. Yet he mentioned that he was having trouble selling the IGI stone because of the certificate. How is the reputation of IGI as I rarely see it mentioned here. Is it so average, not as good as AGS/GIA yet not as bad as EGL, that it's not wort mentioning ?

Hi darkadam! I'm hesitant to answer your question because I don't have any experience with IGI nor have I heard them discussed often on the forum. I have noticed that JA has started selling stones graded by this lab though. I'm sure that someone here will have an answer for you though and I'm interested in hearing as well.

 

[hawk25]

I can't answer the IGI question either, as I have no experience with them, but I did come across a (relatively) recent thread about them. The posters (consisting of appraiser and trade members) suggest that the Belgium IGI lab isn't too bad

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/igi-grading-system.182725/

Most of the people here will answer "NO! IGI is awful!". I do not agree. Antwerp IGI is not bad. Sometimes it is soft (mainly in case of VS2 and SI2), but sometimes even too strict. Anyway I have seen many very soft GIA grading. But would definitely avoid EGL.

If the price is very good and the IGI is the Antwerp one, I would give it a try - but only in case you can return it. You need to have this option anyway - regardless buying GIA, AGS or IGI.

I'm inclined to agree. IGI-NY gets a bad rap primarily because of the 'appraisal' reports that they produce that both involve an incomplete inspection and poorly though out value conclusions. These are common in the mass market US stores like Walmart and Sears. IGI is a well regarded as a grading lab both in Europe and Asia where the services offered are very similar to what GIA offers.

With any lab it's worth noting that you're buying a diamond, not a report, and the lab didn't make it what it is and it's the dealer who is making a representation about it. The purpose of the lab is to reinforce the trust you are placing in the dealer, not as a substitute for it.

The prior posters are correct about IGI loose diamond reports.

There is negative sentiment in the USA but that has been arrived-at based on the "finished jewelry appraisal-reports" which are famously misused by salespeople to demonstrate what a "bargain" a piece is. That trend is unfortunate, as is the fact that those reports eclipse the number of IGI loose diamond reports issued in this country.

In the global picture IGI loose diamond reports are reputable. The IGI Antwerp lab has a strong history in Europe.

 

[04diamond<3]

Thanks for the help so far! This is the diamond I am currently looking at: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pag...&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=6157197634

Any comments on the stone itself or any estimates on what I should be looking to pay for a stone like that? Thanks again.

We'd have to at least see a picture and/or an aset image but it could be nice. Here's a comparable:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/princess-cut/1.02-carat-h-color-vs2-clarity-sku-198642

They offer a 1-5% additional discount for PS members and they provide aset images and videos...

 

[Christina...]

I was just looking through my James Allen receipts and it looks like the discount is 5.5% on diamonds and an additional 1.5% for wire transfer.

 

[Riesz]

I was just looking through my James Allen receipts and it looks like the discount is 5.5% on diamonds and an additional 1.5% for wire transfer.

James Allen's PS discount does seem to vary at some times, for whatever reason. I noticed that while I was hunting for a centre stone for my engagement ring. The diamond I ended up buying was $4400 without discount and $4350 with PS discount. I was hoping for more of a discount on my particular stone but the CS agents said they couldn't take more off from that particular supplier. They couldn't give me any more info.