Diamond Carat VS Width [question for experts or knowlegable people i think]

[johnnyr]

Hi All.
First time poster

I have an issue I am trying to get cleaned up so I can move on.
I recently (this week) bought a diamond for my fiance. It was a 82 pointer with measurements 5.98 * 6.03 *3.73.

I might indulge myself here just abit

Its a GIA triple EX, D, VVS1. Has perfect HA to my untrained eye , and when I hold it in Sunlight, looks like I''ve got a rainbow in my hands!

Anyway moving on. Background: I''m of Vietnamese decent, and hence my folks are abit traditional, hence the top notch C''s . It was still under budget so I didnt mind.

Now, i told my mum i bought a 80 pointer, the firstthing she asked me was ''what size is it''. So i repeated ''0.82 carats'' reallly slowly. She said, I mean how BIG is it, in CM or MM?
I said, errr I dont know, let me look. Me: "its 5.98mm"

She went off at me! She said something about its a ''weak stone'' cause it didnt make the minimum 6mm barrier. (I dont know what that is!). But anyway she went on and on, and finally shutup. I thought nothing more of it.... UNTIL i went to my fiances family-related Jewlery shop (A distant cousin of some sort).

Now this mob, had been trying to find me a diamond for about a month, they were taking too long, so i found one myself. I Showed them the diamond ( they are doing the ring). First thing THEY said was,
" ahhh its under 6mm for an 80 pointer, we would never sell something like that here, thats why it was taking so long to find you a diamond, 6mm+ are very rare, "

Now, im more than happy with my diamond, but I would like to know IS there any theory or reason behind this thinking about '' under-width'' diamonds? The jeweler did say something about it being an asian/vietnamese thing to get a 6mm diamond minimum or something like that. (I did hear her say to her hubbie in our native tongue ( she thinks i cant understand it), "Wow, it really sparkles though

"
And i can tell you the thing has brilliance/fire/scilliantation that will blow your mind away! But i digress.

I did a search function for this topic and I came across a chart that DID say 0.8ct should be 6mm. I know this is a guide, but what does it mean if its under 6mm? IS it bad? Does it mean more of the rough has been cut away to produce a finer diamond?(I hope this is the answer!) (Ill take a diamond that blinds my fiance over a larger frozen oyster anyday!)

Does anybody out there know the answer?

Cheers and thanks for reading!
Johnny R , from down under.

 

[WinkHPD]

5.98 x 6.03 and they say it does not meet the 6mm barrier? Whacko comment from this jeweler''s opinion! But then I have never heard of the 6mm barrier.

The cut is the single most important component of the diamond grade in the opinion of many many on this forum and for many many many of us in the trade. For this stone to have GIA triple EX, it is a very nice stone and should look wonderful, just as your fiance stated. In my opinion to knock your stone in front of her was VERY rude of them.

I have never heard the 6mm thing expressed before, and your stone averages more than 6mm so I am not at all sure what they are talking about.

Wink

 

[Ellen]

It IS 6.0 mm. Actually, 6.005

To get the diameter, you add those first two numbers and divide by two. I would think they would know this....

It's fine.

 

[jaz464]

Date: 9/27/2007 9:55:48 AM
Author:johnnyr
Hi All.
First time poster

I have an issue I am trying to get cleaned up so I can move on.
I recently (this week) bought a diamond for my fiance. It was a 82 pointer with measurements 5.98 * 6.03 *3.73.

I might indulge myself here just abit

Its a GIA triple EX, D, VVS1. Has perfect HA to my untrained eye , and when I hold it in Sunlight, looks like I''ve got a rainbow in my hands!

Anyway moving on. Background: I''m of Vietnamese decent, and hence my folks are abit traditional, hence the top notch C''s . It was still under budget so I didnt mind.

Now, i told my mum i bought a 80 pointer, the firstthing she asked me was ''what size is it''. So i repeated ''0.82 carats'' reallly slowly. She said, I mean how BIG is it, in CM or MM?
I said, errr I dont know, let me look. Me: ''its 5.98mm''

She went off at me! She said something about its a ''weak stone'' cause it didnt make the minimum 6mm barrier. (I dont know what that is!). But anyway she went on and on, and finally shutup. I thought nothing more of it.... UNTIL i went to my fiances family-related Jewlery shop (A distant cousin of some sort).

Now this mob, had been trying to find me a diamond for about a month, they were taking too long, so i found one myself. I Showed them the diamond ( they are doing the ring). First thing THEY said was,
'' ahhh its under 6mm for an 80 pointer, we would never sell something like that here, thats why it was taking so long to find you a diamond, 6mm+ are very rare, ''

Now, im more than happy with my diamond, but I would like to know IS there any theory or reason behind this thinking about '' under-width'' diamonds? The jeweler did say something about it being an asian/vietnamese thing to get a 6mm diamond minimum or something like that. (I did hear her say to her hubbie in our native tongue ( she thinks i cant understand it), ''Wow, it really sparkles though

''
And i can tell you the thing has brilliance/fire/scilliantation that will blow your mind away! But i digress.

I did a search function for this topic and I came across a chart that DID say 0.8ct should be 6mm. I know this is a guide, but what does it mean if its under 6mm? IS it bad? Does it mean more of the rough has been cut away to produce a finer diamond?(I hope this is the answer!) (Ill take a diamond that blinds my fiance over a larger frozen oyster anyday!)

Does anybody out there know the answer?

Cheers and thanks for reading!
Johnny R , from down under.

Please don''t give this another thought. I have never heard that a .8 carat MUST be 6mm. That sounds ridiculous to me. Yours is just under anyway and you could never see the difference with your eyes. It sounds like your diamond is just gorgous! We don''t walk around with measurements on our hands, we wear the diamond.

 

[johnnyr]

My fiance wasnt there when I took it to them. I was abit shocked when they said they wouldnt sell something like that. I just smiled and said, "So can you mount it". - i knew i had an awesome stone. THey are only charging me $300 or so for the mount, a paltry fee compared to what i paid for the rock. But my fiance insisted I go with them - to keep peace. If its crap I wlll just get it redone i think.

I have never heard of this 6mm barrier either, but both my mum and this Jeweler said it, so it got me thinking. That is all. I guess it does break the 6mm barrier after all, I never thought of looking at the 2nd measurements.

The jeweler is the uncle of my fiances brother-in-law. They wanted to sell me a diamond with no certificate AT ALL at first. Something about ''we''re family, you can trust us'' was thrown about. This was crazy i thought! So i asked my mum if it was ok to buy an uncertified diamond. My ears didnt stop ringing for a day or two was the result. I have to admit here that the price was VERY good for the specs they offered me, 80 pointer, D VVS1, for $6500 AUD- but this was uncertifed. Could of been a G VS1 for all I knew! But they wouldnt of done that, as they would of lost ''face'' as we are all asian, and the word would of spread. But who knows...who knows. i think they were pissed off i was so admant about a certificate and ended up buying elsewhere, hence their slight bitterness when I showed them my stone.


This was the start of my diamond learning experience. (Can you believe i thought it was a simple case of rocking up to the store and purchasing it on the spot! Im so lucky I didnt, as i knew NOTHING about the 4 C''s, I had done no prior reading to this!).

Anyway after 2 months of reading forums, talking to several shops, chatting to real people who had experience buying diamonds, I felt like I was knowledgable enough to win a debate with a GIA graduate. Hence I went ahead and bought this beauty.

Advice for people buying diamonds. Make sure you actually look at as many diamonds as you can....Dont do what i did , and think you could buy a diamond on Day 1...hahah...
cheers and thanks for the reassuring replies about this mythical 6mm rule...i can now sleep in peace

 

[Ellen]

Date: 9/27/2007 10:24:38 AM
Author: johnnyr

The jeweler is the uncle of my fiances brother-in-law. They wanted to sell me a diamond with no certificate AT ALL at first. Something about ''we''re family, you can trust us'' was thrown about. This was crazy i thought! So i asked my mum if it was ok to buy an uncertified diamond. My ears didnt stop ringing for a day or two was the result. I have to admit here that the price was VERY good for the specs they offered me, 80 pointer, D VVS1, for $6500 AUD- but this was uncertifed. Could of been a G VS1 for all I knew! But they wouldnt of done that, as they would of lost ''face'' as we are all asian, and the word would of spread. But who knows...who knows. i think they were pissed off i was so admant about a certificate and ended up buying elsewhere, hence their slight bitterness when I showed them my stone.

Very possible.

Sounds like you did good!

Now, you know the routine. We''ll be expecting hand pics.....

 

[denverappraiser]

If they claimed to be able to see the difference between 5.98 and 6.00, they are lying so it must be that they either saw the lab report or heard something from you Mum. If they know how to read a lab report they know that the usual way of describing the diameter of round stones is the average of the largest and smallest dimensions so it, in fact, IS over 6.00. I guess that means you’ve got one that’s ‘very rare’ (which you definitely did at D/VV1 anyway).

When you get it appraised, talk to you appraiser and have them specifically list that average diameter prominently in the description. It is, after all, true. Show the report to your Mum, point this out proudly and explain that you must have been confused when you said the size was 5.98mm. It's a good thing you had it checked out by an expert. Lucky you … it meets this arbitrary barrier AND it’s a fireball. The perfect stone! Congratulations.

Ignore the 'jeweler' entirely. He should know better.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[gontama]

The jeweler may be one of those people who believe a diamond of X carat must have a diameter of Y mm. They may have some kind of table of representative weght/diameter paris - 6 mm for a 0.8 ct is identical to 7.4 mm for a 1.5 ct.

Both are good "guideline". If that is one of their guideline for purchase, I do not think they are ridiculous. However excluding nice diamonds just with slightly spread IS ridiculous.

As a matter of fact, there are many nice h&a that come with less spread across the vendors here which are all very reputable. Probably more than 50% of diamonds have less spread than this "guideline".

Traditional jewlers and designers seem to think 1.5 ct should have 7.5 mm, which is identical to 6.55 mm for 1.0ct, which I have not seen anywhere among h&a. I myself worried about this spread thing and have come to my own conclusion:

A nicely cut diamond with spread larger than 6.4 mm / 1.0 ct is fine. No problem at all. No visible difference either. Even slightly less than that, as long as it is beautiful and there is a good reason for the spread such as girdle, I would get.

Your diamond is well over 6.4 mm / ct. So if your diamond is beautiful, keep it. The spread of your diamond is not near anywhere one needs to worry about. I think experts here would also agree with this.

 

[johnnyr]

Thanks for all the answers guys/girls

Its cleared up abit of confusion!

Cheers

PS : Whats the best way to take a picture of the rock? Just use a typical digital camera and zoom in?

 

[johnnyr]

edit: dbl post ..sorry

 

[stebbo]

Date: 9/27/2007 11:54:48 PM
Author: johnnyr

Whats the best way to take a picture of the rock? Just use a typical digital camera and zoom in?

I haven't tried this with a typical point and shoot camera but in theory it should work:

Activate macro mode (usually iconized by a picture of a flower), set the highest resolution, least compression, zoom in as far as you can (but don't go into the 'digital' zoom range), and then starting with the camera close to the diamond, move it slowly back until you can focus clearly on the diamond. This will allow you to get the maximum image size without the camera obscuring the light entering the diamond too much and darkening it. Keep on moving back and your image size will drop of course, but the diamond might show some added personality from even less light being blocked.

 

[mr right]

Johnny

Diamonds are one of the most homogenic items in the world.

There are many different ideas about what is a perfect diamond and what is not. I know that the chineese beleive that it is lucky to have a 1.68 carat diamonds.

Because diamonds are so homogenic you will never get 2 diamonds that are exactly the same for instance if you were to purchase a 1 carat diamonds VS1 G Colour Excellent it does not mean that both those diamonds will be exactly the same size.

they say that an ideal cut diamonds wil range from 6.2mm - 6.5mm so I would certainly not say just becasue a diamonds is under 6mm at 80 points that it is a bad quality diamond.

Regards
Mr Right

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 9/28/2007 5:41:35 AM
Author: stebbo

Date: 9/27/2007 11:54:48 PM
Author: johnnyr

Whats the best way to take a picture of the rock? Just use a typical digital camera and zoom in?

In addition to Steb''s good advice, turn off the flash and rig up a tripod if you have trouble keeping your hands steady, this can make all the difference. If taking pics outside, get the sun behind you too.