Diamond Brands

[CruiseX]

Hello all, first time on the forum, so if I am repeating a question already asked I apologize in advance. I have been doing my research for a while now on what I want in terms of a diamond, but the bump in the road for me is the brand. In essence is there one brand out there that is better than the others. I am looking for a something in the range of 75-100 points, round cut. In terms of clarity and color that is also still in the air to an extent.

Now I have read and been told that there is no other diamond on the market that has better light return than a Hearts on Fire diamond. Is that necessarily true of is that outdated info. I was also told this bit by a jeweler. The topic came up when I asked him about the new Simon G 121 facet cut as oppossed to the traditional 56 facets. Now personaly I would have thought that the Simon G 121 facets would return more light than a HOF with 56 facets. He explained to me that the more facets does not mean that the stone will return more light. Instead the light it does return will be in smaller bits (the twinkles will be smaller) when compared to a 56 faceted stone. He also said that in terms of light return there is no other stone on the market that has tested better than the HOF. Now is he correct or is he trying to get me to buy a HOF because of the marked up price. What I am looking for is simply the best cut of diamond out there. I now HOF are said to be the most perfect cut, but does that still hold true, and if not what else rivals the HOF.

In terms of color and clarity. I have been told that because I am in the market for a round cut solitaire in the range of 75-100 points, that in terms of clarity and stone in the SI range will be the best bang for the buck. Also that if I were to get a HOF that I would not really need to go higher than SI for clarity for the size in question because of the ideal cut of a HOF. Again is that correct? Sounds reasonable to me but I am not going to take a jewelers word as simple as that. For color, again I was told that if I were to get a HOF that as long as I was in the colorless to nearcolorless, that you would not really be able to tell the difference. Also, that the color of the diamond is going to affect the price more that the other factors. That if i wanted to move up in color grade it is going to cost more proportionately than to move up in say clarity. Again, are my getting bad info to get me to buy their product?

Any info in regards to this would be most helpful. I am only looking for info on the diamond itself, within the range I have mentioned (75-100 points). If I were to get a HOF is what I mentioned above acurately info. And also, if not a HOF, than what else is out there that will rival or surpass a HOF.

Thanks in advance

 

[icekid]

While the HoF diamonds are nice, they are NOT the most perfect diamond! You can find hearts and arrows diamonds that are cut just as well, for a MUCH better price. Many stones will rival HoF. For example, WhiteFlash has an H&A diamond called "A Cut Above." However, you don''t even necessarily need a stone that is called H&A to get great performance. What you DO what to pay attention to are the diamond''s depth, table, pavilion angle, and crown angle.

Stones with more facets are not necessarily better or worse. It just depends on what look your preference is.

I do think SI stones provide great bang for your buck, as long as you make sure the stone is eye clean. But that is generally true for all diamonds (not step cut though), not just HoF.

 

[IrishEyes]

I don''t believe that there is any single brand out there that is the "best" or "better" than the rest. It just basically all boils down to cut. Cut is the most important thing. Quite honestly, the jeweler was probably just trying to make a sale, after all that is his/her job. I''ve seen HoF diamonds - they do seem quite nice. However as the poster above mentioned, you can the same quality or better quality (remember: cut) on several of the online vendors here at PS. Even if you don''t go with one of those vendors, just make sure you look around alot before making a purchase!

 

[belle]

Date: 8/16/2005 10:06:52 AM
Author:CruiseX
Hello all, first time on the forum, so if I am repeating a question already asked I apologize in advance. I have been doing my research for a while now on what I want in terms of a diamond, but the bump in the road for me is the brand. In essence is there one brand out there that is better than the others. I am looking for a something in the range of 75-100 points, round cut. In terms of clarity and color that is also still in the air to an extent.

hello cruisex!

welcome to ps!
let''s try and smooth the bump, shall we?

Now I have read and been told that there is no other diamond on the market that has better light return than a Hearts on Fire diamond. Is that necessarily true of is that outdated info. I was also told this bit by a jeweler. The topic came up when I asked him about the new Simon G 121 facet cut as oppossed to the traditional 56 facets. Now personaly I would have thought that the Simon G 121 facets would return more light than a HOF with 56 facets. He explained to me that the more facets does not mean that the stone will return more light. Instead the light it does return will be in smaller bits (the twinkles will be smaller) when compared to a 56 faceted stone. He also said that in terms of light return there is no other stone on the market that has tested better than the HOF. Now is he correct or is he trying to get me to buy a HOF because of the marked up price. What I am looking for is simply the best cut of diamond out there. I now HOF are said to be the most perfect cut, but does that still hold true, and if not what else rivals the HOF.

hof do have great light return but the jeweler is correct about more facets not meaning more light return. since facets act like mirrors in a diamond, the effect has been compared to that of a disco ball. if you have a ball with many small mirrors compared to one having less, yet bigger mirrors, you can see that the difference will be in the flashes of light. because of this, i am definitely a fan of the traditionally cut rb.
as far as his statement about no other stone being tested better than hof...well...i''ve never heard of such testing

but i can tell you that i have directly compared stones with the hof brand and for me, visually, the ''a cut above'' brand from whiteflash was tough competition. they are both ''wow'' cut stones, but the 2-3k price difference makes the a cut above a very easy choice.

In terms of color and clarity. I have been told that because I am in the market for a round cut solitaire in the range of 75-100 points, that in terms of clarity and stone in the SI range will be the best bang for the buck. Also that if I were to get a HOF that I would not really need to go higher than SI for clarity for the size in question because of the ideal cut of a HOF. Again is that correct? Sounds reasonable to me but I am not going to take a jewelers word as simple as that. For color, again I was told that if I were to get a HOF that as long as I was in the colorless to nearcolorless, that you would not really be able to tell the difference. Also, that the color of the diamond is going to affect the price more that the other factors. That if i wanted to move up in color grade it is going to cost more proportionately than to move up in say clarity. Again, are my getting bad info to get me to buy their product?

i would agree that when buying a super ideal cut diamond, you don''t need to worry so much about the color. the face up appearance (because of the precision of the cut) will be much ''whiter''. the high light return is going to mask any body color you may notice otherwise. i love the value of si clarity stones. why pay for what you can''t see? my favorite super ideal clarity/color combo is g/si2

Any info in regards to this would be most helpful. I am only looking for info on the diamond itself, within the range I have mentioned (75-100 points). If I were to get a HOF is what I mentioned above acurately info. And also, if not a HOF, than what else is out there that will rival or surpass a HOF.

Thanks in advance

hands down, my choice would be the a cut above from whiteflash. the cut rivals hof in cut quality and optics, but far surpasses it in price and value.

 

[Regular Guy]

Everyone''s points here I agree with. Belle makes a good analysis. There are other branded options, too, including: infinity, superbcert, Lazare, and some others. Options like WF, and some of these, as I understand it, will give you similar quality to HoF, with lower cost.

Here''s some related animated discussion.

I feel a post coming on...but anyone can beat me to it. The elements are here...pharmaceutical companies are perhaps to doctors as diamond purveyors are to independent appraisers. What is needed is a place for a guy to walk into a place and see some of these options conveniently, and consider them, in lieu of the other options available to them, either locally, or even through the internet. HOF does have a well placed distribution network. These others don''t. But...diamond purveyors can place them on loan...with independent appraisers. Maybe buyers don''t think to seek out appraisers for this service. Maybe they could be taught to.

Is this just wacko? Comments?

 

[CruiseX]

"What you DO what to pay attention to are the diamond''s depth, table, pavilion angle, and crown angle."



So what type of values or specs should I be looking for in regards to these characteristics. Thanks again for the help

 

[Regular Guy]

This resource could help.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 8/16/2005 11:40:33 AM
Author: Regular Guy

The elements are here...pharmaceutical companies are perhaps to doctors as diamond purveyors are to independent appraisers. What is needed is a place for a guy to walk into a place and see some of these options conveniently, and consider them, in lieu of the other options available to them, either locally, or even through the internet. HOF does have a well placed distribution network. These others don''t. But...diamond purveyors can place them on loan...with independent appraisers. Maybe buyers don''t think to seek out appraisers for this service. Maybe they could be taught to.

Is this just wacko? Comments?

I don''t think it''s workable.

A doctor''s job is to treat his patient....with his patient''s best interest at heart. Therefore, part of his job to suggest medications that may achieve the health objectives of the patient.

An independent appraiser isn''t in the same position a doctor is....he cannot be in the position (or even the APPEARANCE of the position) of promoting/suggesting a certain brand of stone. It''s counterintuitive to the entire essence of being *independent*. His role is simply to evaluate stones that a customer brings to him.

 

[Mara]

HOF have spectacular diamonds but they are just one brand in a sea of many and they don''t even employ unique cutting techinques, basically they are a branded H&A diamond but they don''t even guarantee the ARROWS, just the hearts.

Don''t worry, I too got the ''HOF are the best spiel'' when we started looking. I think it''s outrageous they can claim to be the ''most perfectly cut diamond in the world''..compared to what? I''d love to see the scientific analysis on that one. They certainly are lovely but not for that markup. If I was dying to pay 40-50% more for a diamond, I''d probably buy an Eightstar rather than HOF. At least those are more unique with a precise cutting pattern.

Anyhow, I babble...you have already received good advice. Don''t buy the brand, buy the diamond. I like using numbers if I am buying virtually or offline to help guide me...someone already gave you a good link for those number resources.

If you really like brands, you can get something like the ACA brand for ~10% than an unbranded H&A or similar, much less than the 40% HOF. I also like unbranded H&A''s with great numbers and images...so you really do have alot of options.

Stick around and ask more questions as you find stones to consider, IMO that is the best way to learn is hands on. Or keyboard on in this case. Good luck!

 

[JROC]

What about the Solasfera diamond? I haven''t sen anyone mention these. I''ve never seen one in person but they are suppose to have the most light return by far. It might be what your looking for.

Here is a link on some info.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/solasfera_hearts_&_arrows.htm

 

[oldminer]

No one style of diamond cut will provide "the most perfect best cut". We are actually speaking of judging beauty, which is an inherently SUBJECTIVE determination. There is no definition of Best Cut and no way to cut a diamond Perfectly. Who defines what is Perfcectly Cut? The guys who cut them, a lay person, a salesperson? None of them would be unbiased. I think fine craftmanship is great, but "Perfect" is a bit over the top.

We can use tools to report what is happening in a diamond that gives us an idea of how it should look and perform. We can even say one diamond performs marginally better or substantially better than another. We can attempt to equate this measured "performance" to what our eyes can see and appreciate. Not all of us can see the differences among better performing diamonds. They all look quite nice to most consumers. It is the tiny incremental differences in diamonds that create value and marketing, but, in the end, you only get to look at it with your eyes. Can anyone appreciate the quality of a VVS1 compared to a VS1 with only their eyes? Much the same can be said about a diamond being judged for "beauty".

Some branded diamonds are definitely better than others. Extra facets alone do not automatically make a diamond 'better" than another. Cutting a diamond is a craft that requires experience and knowledge. The best cutting is done with great care to detail and an eye is kept on the end result to make performance in the best category range.

Read the Thread about "Steep and Deep" above to see that the experts in this field still don't have a complete handle on what to discuss or how to agree on standards. Buy a very pretty diamond, but don't get overwhelmed by sales pitches. There are many excellent sources of knowledge posting here who can lead you into getting a super diamond at a very fair price.

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 8/16/2005 12:10:51 PM
Author: aljdewey

Date: 8/16/2005 11:40:33 AM
Author: Regular Guy

The elements are here...pharmaceutical companies are perhaps to doctors as diamond purveyors are to independent appraisers. What is needed is a place for a guy to walk into a place and see some of these options conveniently, and consider them, in lieu of the other options available to them, either locally, or even through the internet. HOF does have a well placed distribution network. These others don't. But...diamond purveyors can place them on loan...with independent appraisers. Maybe buyers don't think to seek out appraisers for this service. Maybe they could be taught to.

Is this just wacko? Comments?

I don't think it's workable.

A doctor's job is to treat his patient....with his patient's best interest at heart. Therefore, part of his job to suggest medications that may achieve the health objectives of the patient.

An independent appraiser isn't in the same position a doctor is....he cannot be in the position (or even the APPEARANCE of the position) of promoting/suggesting a certain brand of stone. It's counter intuitive to the entire essence of being *independent*. His role is simply to evaluate stones that a customer brings to him.

Possibly more than an appraiser...a) a doctor is ethically bound to serve their patient, b) takes a hippocratic oath, and c) well...would you presume your doctor to only look after your best interest, really. Still, pharmaceutical companies find it in their best interest to have pharmaceutical reps call on them, provide literature (never mind the vacations and fru-fru part).

(eta...) This hasn't stopped pharmaceutical companies from employing pharmaceutical reps.

Handled unskillfully, it would degrade the profession. We consulted a doctor about one of my children's condition, and the manner in which she handed me literature, in advance of consulting with me, was shameful.

Still, that's a cart before horse issue. In either case, cart or horse first, there is a cart, at least. And, in the end, we did, with another doctor's care, turn to the medicine recommended by doctor #1, anyway. Doctor #1 was not very skillful, however.

Problem today is...many consumers are trying to get somewhere, they consult their travel agent (independent appraiser), and there's no mention of a cart, whatsoever. So, they also don't make a trip. If the consumer were to mention the magic words to the appraiser/travel agent...saying: I want to go somewhere....then maybe the professional could present options, none of which they, the appraiser, could themselves make available for sale. Show only.

 

[valeria101]

GIA publishes a list of (almost?) all registered diamond brands and then there are countless store brands that never make the list - either because they are not protected or because they do not survive enough... Since all there is left to brand about a diamond is cut, the majority of these cuts will claim they are the most brilliant out there

. IMO, they are all right !

There are a few dozens of such diamond cut brands. Just try out some websites for fun - no need to hear the mantra from a salesperson. Say, comparing EightStar and HOF would insure you do get to spend as much as possible on that stone.

Starting out with the goal to 'get the most brilliant diamond' will make the seller's job easy. For once, there is no accepted definition or measurement of what 'brilliance' is in this context. This is up to you to decide before entering a shop... as far as I can tell.

Some use associated devices to prove that: the Brilliance Scope is used by several such brands, then Isee2, Ideal Scope, H&A viewer and its versions and there must be others as well. Some appraisers would provide such tests and rankings for any diamond you present them with - the AGA does. Some sellers would run such tests on diamonds they select from suppliers' lists for you (GoodOldGold, NiceIce, Whiteflash, Exceldiamonds, DirtCheapDiamonds, Wink and others write on this forum). Such tests also provide the kind of quality asurance that brands do. Since some of the brands do not actually provide such information with each diamond but rather make a blanket statement about all, perhaps the shops and appraisers running tests for you provide better service.

Just my 0.2, of course.

 

[JROC]

Oldminer, again with the words of wisdom and very true I might add.

I almost purchased a Solasfera, but I went with a traditional cut, AGS000 and when I look at it in any kind of light it is absolutely stunning! I know I made the right choice, for me.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" a true statement. Only when you see a diamond in person can you determine what you think looks best. Many love the HOF, Solasfera, etc. etc., some don't. I seem to think they can look "too busy" and they can tend to look like shattered glass. I like the "pureness" of a traditionally cut diamond.

Good luck.

 

[sapphic]

Here's a page on NiceIce regarding branded H&A diamonds that is kind of interesting. Their position is that true H&A is not as important and that people may be paying for some branded H&A diamonds that aren't "precisely" H&A:

http://www.niceice.com/hearts_arrows.htm